629 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

GavrielKay wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Money buys mages rights they should otherwise already have.

And ironically, apparently rich mages aren't exloding kittens?  But somehow more trustworthy than the rest...  Nice double standard there...  or is it that the Chantry knows most mages aren't exploding kittens and is therefore willing to curry favor with rich families by doing something they know isn't that dangerous anyway?

Pretty much. You can't claim that Mages are inherently dangerous and incapable of living alongside society safely if the rich Mages are able to return to society.

Hell, we see Orlesian nobles using Mages. Or being Mages themselves. So the notion that the Circle is the only solution to protect the populus from the dangers of magic is pretty flawed.

The Circle's definitely necessary to train Mages, but as a boarding school and not a gilded cage.

Mages need to be educated on many things, magic being only one of them. If the Circle wants to train its mages, it needs some serious reform. And I'm about to tackle how I'd ideally reform the system on a wholesale level.

Whether it'd realistically work, I don't know. But it'd be a decent starting point.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Interesting theory.
Is that what happen to Bethany in The Circle? Because I never allow her to enter the Circle in my playthrough.
Still I can't understant why Isolde don't use her wealth just to buy mages right for her son. It would save a lot of problem already. She's the arless of Redcliff anyway.

She probably didn't know it was an option. Remember that magic has always been in her line. Perhaps her family's standing wasn't notable enough to allow for it. Perhaps she remained ignorant of it, knowing only that magic's been in their line and when she supported Eamon throughout the rebellion, she couldn't just ask her family about it.

I'm sure she didn't know because there was never really a need for her to know in the past. She doesn't say anyone in her immediate family was a mage. Just that magic has always been in her family. So it could be a distant ancestor that's been long dead and she couldn't find out such information.

I dunno. But she isn't wrong to believe she wouldn't be able to see her son again, as that does seem to be the common thing most mages are put through.

GavrielKay wrote...

 And even being able to visit and write letters is far different from being able to raise your own son.

There's also this, on some level.

[Koire]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
Uldred is rebelling against having his life controled by the Chantry.

Nope. He wanted to create an army of mutated abomination for total domination. Irrelevant to freedom.

Actually, Uldred wanted to support Loghain in return for his promise to provide more freedom for mages. But Wynne managed to survive Ostagar and revealed Uldred's treachery to Irving. Irving confronted Uldred, and the latter tried to leave, but Irving wouldn't allow that. Uldread realized that he is backed in the corner and turned to blood magic, which resulted in him turning into a demon's puppet.

Some information about it  can be found here and here, in case you missed it.

Modifié par Koire, 09 mai 2012 - 06:12 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Koire wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
Uldred is rebelling against having his life controled by the Chantry.

Nope. He wanted to create an army of mutated abomination for total domination. Irrelevant to freedom.

Actually, Uldred wanted to support Loghain in return for his promise to provide more freedom for mages. But Wynne managed to survive Ostagar and revealed Uldred's treachery to Irving. Irving confronted Uldred, and the latter tried to leave, but Irving wouldn't allow that. Uldread realized that he is backed in the corner and turned to blood magic, which resulted in him turning into a demon's puppet.

Some information about it  can be found here and here, in case you missed it.

You miss out the half of it.

This is what I experienced ingame when I encounter him.

During this fight Uldred attempted to summon a demon, but was overwhelmed and became an abomination.
When he meets the Warden for the second time during the Broken Circle his humanity is all but gone and he is attempting to take over the Circle in order to create more abominations.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Uldred
 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 09 mai 2012 - 06:34 .

[TEWR]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Koire wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
Uldred is rebelling against having his life controled by the Chantry.

Nope. He wanted to create an army of mutated abomination for total domination. Irrelevant to freedom.

Actually, Uldred wanted to support Loghain in return for his promise to provide more freedom for mages. But Wynne managed to survive Ostagar and revealed Uldred's treachery to Irving. Irving confronted Uldred, and the latter tried to leave, but Irving wouldn't allow that. Uldread realized that he is backed in the corner and turned to blood magic, which resulted in him turning into a demon's puppet.

Some information about it  can be found here and here, in case you missed it.

You miss out the half of it.

This is what I experienced ingame when I encounter him.

During this fight Uldred attempted to summon a demon, but was overwhelmed and became an abomination.
When he meets the Warden for the second time during the Broken Circle his humanity is all but gone and he is attempting to take over the Circle in order to create more abominations.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Uldred
 

That's after his intended plan went wrong.

Fact: Uldred was working in cahoots with Loghain on the premise of a liberated Circle. We know from firsthand accounts by Wynne and other Mages that Uldred was a vocal libertarian.

Fact: You meet a mage that confirms they were fighting for freedom for mages.

Fact: Uldred did try and persuade the Mages to side with Loghain. Wynne and Niall tell you this. Irving and the others almost sided with Uldred until Loghain's crimes were revealed, which then prompted the Mages to confront Uldred.

Fact: Niall will state that Uldred let loose a burst of energy against the mages that acted as a signal to his allies, where they then began to use blood magic against the Templars and Mages alike. Uldred's folly was summoning a Pride Demon and being possessed by it against his will. Niall will state that Uldred began screaming in pain and in the end no longer was Uldred.

Uldred's intentions prior to when you meet him are what matters here. The consequences of those actions are irrelevant.

Had he not used blood magic, I'm sure he may have succeeded. Or he would've been killed by the Templars.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Koire wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
Uldred is rebelling against having his life controled by the Chantry.

Nope. He wanted to create an army of mutated abomination for total domination. Irrelevant to freedom.

Actually, Uldred wanted to support Loghain in return for his promise to provide more freedom for mages. But Wynne managed to survive Ostagar and revealed Uldred's treachery to Irving. Irving confronted Uldred, and the latter tried to leave, but Irving wouldn't allow that. Uldread realized that he is backed in the corner and turned to blood magic, which resulted in him turning into a demon's puppet.

Some information about it  can be found here and here, in case you missed it.

You miss out the half of it.

This is what I experienced ingame when I encounter him.

During this fight Uldred attempted to summon a demon, but was overwhelmed and became an abomination.
When he meets the Warden for the second time during the Broken Circle his humanity is all but gone and he is attempting to take over the Circle in order to create more abominations.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Uldred
 

That's after his intended plan went wrong.

Fact: Uldred was working in cahoots with Loghain on the premise of a liberated Circle. We know from firsthand accounts by Wynne and other Mages that Uldred was a vocal libertarian.

Fact: You meet a mage that confirms they were fighting for freedom for mages.

Fact: Uldred did try and persuade the Mages to side with Loghain. Wynne and Niall tell you this. Irving and the others almost sided with Uldred until Loghain's crimes were revealed, which then prompted the Mages to confront Uldred.

Fact: Niall will state that Uldred let loose a burst of energy against the mages that acted as a signal to his allies, where they then began to use blood magic against the Templars and Mages alike. Uldred's folly was summoning a Pride Demon and being possessed by it against his will. Niall will state that Uldred began screaming in pain and in the end no longer was Uldred.

Uldred's intentions prior to when you meet him are what matters here. The consequences of those actions are irrelevant.

Had he not used blood magic, I'm sure he may have succeeded. Or he would've been killed by the Templars.

Fact Is: All his previous intention is deem irrelevant as he loose his humanity. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 09 mai 2012 - 06:44 .

[GavrielKay]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Fact Is: All his previous intention is deem irrelevant as he loose his humanity. 

Fact:  All the claims that the Chantry way is the best because it protects people are irrelevant because they don't.

Every mage who turns to blood magic to escape the Chantry is the fault of the Chantry.  Every mage who is pushed to a last act of defiance by abusive Templars is the fault of the Chantry.  Every child kept from training by a scared family is the fault of the Chantry.

The Chantry does more harm than good, all the while using its failures as twisted evidence of its necessity.

[Silfren]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

There's more than enough evidence that clearly and wihout doubt shows just how dangerous mages are.
Mages ARE inherently dangerous. They aren't like normal people.
Normal people can't get possesed at any time.
Normal people wont' go on a murder spree even if they don't want it.
Normal people can't throw fireballs around.
Normal people can't mind control. Heck, this ALONE is enough to warrant locking up all mages.

I missed it the first time.  Normal people CAN be possessed at any time.  You see this all over the place.  Spirits and demons are capable of possessing EVERYTHIING.  Trees, corpses, mages and non-mages alike.  Even rocks, apparently.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Silfren wrote...

and sought out an incompetent apostate to train him

I dispute this. Jowan's certainly a bumbler, but it's not because he's a mage. He's a competent apostate that just really screws himself over a great deal of the time.

He even says that he didn't get to teach Connor that much before the demonic possession/corpse invasion.

And it's my belief that he was led to blood magic by Uldred in some form and was just another pawn in Uldred's scheme of "Root out blood mages, raise my standing, hide my status as a blood mage even further".

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that to indicate that I thought Jowan was incompetent simply because he was a mage, but just that he was a really crappy choice for teaching someone else.  I wouldn't put him forward as an example of competence for other mages to shoot for, but that isn't to say I think he's totally inept.  Just certainly not someone I'd consider fit for teaching others--especially kids just being exposed to magical tutelage for the first time. 

Irving may have felt that his actions were justified under the rule of "the weak must be sacrificed for the good of the rest" but I still hate him for setting Jowan up for failure like that.  Honestly...purposely leaving tomes of blood magic around anyone to look at, and punishing those who do?  As much as I can appreciate the logic behind it and feel for the position that Irving felt he was in because of the combative system the Chantry created, I still find it a despicable practice.  Entrapment is just never okay.  

[Pappi]

Was I the only one who found most of the mages in DA2 very annoying?

[Silfren]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Quit dodging and just answer the question.  Leave aside whether it is good or bad to study blood magic: is it wrong to use your own blood to power spells in the defense of other people's lives when you don't have access to lyrium and your mana is exhausted?  It isn't enough to say a non blood mage will resort to anything to defend herself when I'm pointing out that part of the problem for this scenario is that her mana is gone and she has no lyrium, so the only means she has to power her magic is blood.  Are you of the opinion she should let people in her protection die rather than use her blood to defend them?  Yes or no.

I would rather kill myself than turning into monster and kill everyone including the one I protected. I will not repeat what Orsino did to others people. Morally or not. There's my answer. 

Jeez.  IThere's little point in discussing anything with you if you insist on re-framing my words in order to answer the question you want rather than the one I ask.  What Orsino did has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with what I'm talking about here.  Stop bringing him up.  

I didn't say ANYTHING about abominations.  I asked whether it is okay to use blood to FUEL approved magic.  What part about that scenario are you not getting?  Blood can be used to power ANY spell, not just the forbidden ones.  

I'm not talking about a mage using blood magic to summon a demon and become an abomination.  I'm referring to a situation where a mage can't cast ANY spell without using her own blood to power it because she's out of mana and has no lyrium.  She could use a spell from the Spirit Healing school or the Arcane Warrior school or just a generic fireball or frost spell, but the only way she is going to be able to cast it is by using her blood.  She has people in her care that she is trying to protect, but she ain't gonna be able to cast any spells without resorting to her own blood.  Are you saying she should quit the fight and let people die? 

It is NOT a foregone conclusion that a mage who merely uses her blood to power a spell will become a monster.  So will you stop assuming that's the scenario I'm trying to illustrate and just answer it as I have set it up?

[Silfren]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
[quote]Silfren wrote...
Fact: Despite the fact that the lore does indicate that templars either can't defend against blood magic or have a harder time doing so, we DO have the Litany of Adralla, which defends against "blood magic mind domination" and by extension, demonic possession.  [/quote]

No.
You insist on downplaying any and all danger of mages and abominations and putting all blame at the feet of the Chantry.

[/quote]

No?  No, what?  That is precisely what the lore we have about the Litany of Adralla states.  Adralla came up with methods to defend against demonic summons and every known form of mind control, and we have explicit proof--not evidence or mere hints but, outright, indiputable proof--of the Litany being used to prevent people from being possessed by demons in the Broken Circle quest of Origins.  You can't just say "no" and make all that available lore nonexistent.  

What the relationship of the rest of your statement has to do with what you quoted of my post, I'll never know.  It doesn't seem all that relevant.  Whether I'm downplaying the danger of mages and blaming the Chantry entirely has nothing to do with the Litany itself.  The Litany DOES exist, is as far as I know one bit of lore not disputed or contradicted by any other, and it DOES indicate that more research would lead to more knowledge on how to combat the dangers of magic.  

[quote]
Fact: Tevinter isn't in a total state of collapse, but is a thriving city.  Given the extent to which magic is practiced there, it also must have a thin or completely-gone Veil.  Yet abominations and demons have yet to decimate the city and rampage throughout the rest of Thedas.  So it appears that Tevinter has methods for preventing those things or at least effectively countering them before they can wreak havoc. 
[/quote]

Tevinter has it's own templars.
Mages prey on mages there. And we don't hear much of what is happening in Tevinter. We have no idea how big a problem abominations are there and how big a death toll they extract each year.

[/quote]

Tevinter having its own templars proves my point, it doesn't dispute it.  I made that part of my argument several posts back. 

We DO know that Tevinter is a stable, functioning society.  If it were on the verge of collapse due to abominations and blood magic, we would have heard about it.  We hear plenty of things about Tevinter, but none of them so much as hint that about systemic problems resulting from uncontrolled magic.  Not one bit.  Wynne has nothing to say about it.  Shale has nothing to say about it.  Feynriel doesn't, as I recall.  Even Fenris doesn't have anything to say about it, and he would be the first one to bring it up.  

Modifié par Silfren, 09 mai 2012 - 08:59 .

[Knight Commander]

Some of you are really in denial of mages being dangerous. Even though I like the templars a lot more I can still admit some of their actions on mages is really harsh and unnecessary. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that mages are very dangerous as well as templars.

[Pappi]

True, mages are dangerous. Things like this make me wonder about how the dragon age world would be in a few hundred years time, if the world evolved? How would mages be treated then...the concept of genes are the 'magic' gene...could it be controlled? I don't think I have ever seen a fantasy game in which a sequel is set hundreds of years later when the fashion, world, belifs and technology are unrecogniable. Fantasy worlds all seem to be stuck in that medieval esque time period when sequels come rolling out...

[GavrielKay]

Knight Commander wrote...

Some of you are really in denial of mages being dangerous. Even though I like the templars a lot more I can still admit some of their actions on mages is really harsh and unnecessary. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that mages are very dangerous as well as templars.

For me it isn't a matter of denying that mages are dangerous, it's denying that they are so world-shatteringly dangerous that it becomes morally acceptible to deny them basic rights and treat them as criminals.

Lots of things are dangerous and there are precautions that are completely logical to take against them.

If all the free mages already in existance in Thedas haven't wrecked everything and everyone yet, then I fail to see why locking up mages is necessary.  And I do see that using the expedient of locking them up has likely stifled research into other more humane ways to deal with the actual dangers of magic.

If Dalish mages are ok, rich mages are ok, Rivaini seers are ok, Chasind shamans are ok and Tevinter magisters don't appear to be turning into abominations in record numbers then I fail to see why somehow the mages in Andrastian controlled nations are so much more likely to do harm.  Either they aren't and it's all a lie, or they are and you have to look at why those countries have more trouble than ones where mages are treated with respect rather than paranoia.

[GavrielKay]

Pappi wrote...

Was I the only one who found most of the mages in DA2 very annoying?

No, I did too.  Many of them make no sense in a pro-mage play through. 

Also, I find it amusing that Meredith is looking for blood mages under the carpets in the Gallows while they are openly marauding the streets in Kirkwall at night.

Modifié par GavrielKay, 09 mai 2012 - 09:55 .

[Knight Commander]

GavrielKay wrote...

Knight Commander wrote...

Some of you are really in denial of mages being dangerous. Even though I like the templars a lot more I can still admit some of their actions on mages is really harsh and unnecessary. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that mages are very dangerous as well as templars.

For me it isn't a matter of denying that mages are dangerous, it's denying that they are so world-shatteringly dangerous that it becomes morally acceptible to deny them basic rights and treat them as criminals.

Lots of things are dangerous and there are precautions that are completely logical to take against them.

If all the free mages already in existance in Thedas haven't wrecked everything and everyone yet, then I fail to see why locking up mages is necessary.  And I do see that using the expedient of locking them up has likely stifled research into other more humane ways to deal with the actual dangers of magic.

If Dalish mages are ok, rich mages are ok, Rivaini seers are ok, Chasind shamans are ok and Tevinter magisters don't appear to be turning into abominations in record numbers then I fail to see why somehow the mages in Andrastian controlled nations are so much more likely to do harm.  Either they aren't and it's all a lie, or they are and you have to look at why those countries have more trouble than ones where mages are treated with respect rather than paranoia.

The thing is we have no idea what is going on in all those other countries and besides tevinter is a terrible place they're slave owners.

Modifié par Knight Commander, 09 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[GavrielKay]

Knight Commander wrote...
The thing is we have no idea what is going on in all those other countries and besides tevinter is a terrible place they're slave owners.

We know those countries are functional.  We've been given no reason, even by Chantry lore, to suspect that mages are routinely becoming abominations and wiping out villages.

Tevinter is a place where the whole culture is warped.  The Dalish clans have mage leaders and not slavery, so it is certainly possible.  I would suggest that Tevinter is lousy because they want it that way, not because magic is actually out of control.  Every person is a product of both their genetics and their environment, so growing up in Tevinter would poison just about anyone, with the mages just having a slightly better shot at getting ahead.

Given that the circles were created quite a while after the defeat of the Tevinter empire, it seems fairly clear that even the Chantry didn't start out with the idea that mages must be locked up.  First the mages went voluntarily into seclusion in order to practice their magic away from others and THEN the Chantry gave itself permission to round up all mages and lock them away.  It was not a response to a massive outbreak of evil mages, but the resolution of a peaceful protest on the part of mages wanting to do more than keep the eternal flame lit.  There are references to the relevant codex already posted.

[Knight Commander]

GavrielKay wrote...

Knight Commander wrote...
The thing is we have no idea what is going on in all those other countries and besides tevinter is a terrible place they're slave owners.

We know those countries are functional.  We've been given no reason, even by Chantry lore, to suspect that mages are routinely becoming abominations and wiping out villages.

Tevinter is a place where the whole culture is warped.  The Dalish clans have mage leaders and not slavery, so it is certainly possible.  I would suggest that Tevinter is lousy because they want it that way, not because magic is actually out of control.  Every person is a product of both their genetics and their environment, so growing up in Tevinter would poison just about anyone, with the mages just having a slightly better shot at getting ahead.

Given that the circles were created quite a while after the defeat of the Tevinter empire, it seems fairly clear that even the Chantry didn't start out with the idea that mages must be locked up.  First the mages went voluntarily into seclusion in order to practice their magic away from others and THEN the Chantry gave itself permission to round up all mages and lock them away.  It was not a response to a massive outbreak of evil mages, but the resolution of a peaceful protest on the part of mages wanting to do more than keep the eternal flame lit.  There are references to the relevant codex already posted.

It would be real nice to see what is happening in all the other countries, the mage/templar war would make a lot more sense for picking a side.

[GavrielKay]

Knight Commander wrote...
It would be real nice to see what is happening in all the other countries, the mage/templar war would make a lot more sense for picking a side.

Yeah, I hope DA3 doesn't have us stuck in one area all the time.  There are so many places that get just a mention in dialogue or lore and it'd be nice to explore.

[Vormaerin]

GavrielKay wrote...

If Dalish mages are ok, rich mages are ok, Rivaini seers are ok, Chasind shamans are ok and Tevinter magisters don't appear to be turning into abominations in record numbers then I fail to see why somehow the mages in Andrastian controlled nations are so much more likely to do harm.  Either they aren't and it's all a lie, or they are and you have to look at why those countries have more trouble than ones where mages are treated with respect rather than paranoia.

We've never met a Rivaini seer and we don't know what restrictions are placed on them.  The same is true of Chasind shamans.  Every real world culture puts restrictions on those believed to have supernatural power.  Usually some form of social isolation unless its directly associated with leadership in some fashion.

The Dalish and Tevinter mages are the rulers of their peoples, which is one of the things that the Circles are supposed to prevent.   Also, the Tevinter and Dalish are both seriously f'ed up people.   Its pretty telling that Merrill is one of the least psychotic Dalish we ever meet.

Abominations are only one, particularly scary, risk of unfettered mages.   The real risk is that without the Chantry's protection, they would all be dragged into court wizard positions and used in the nobles' constant games of war and intrigue.  Or they would just become the nobles themselves.

[GavrielKay]

Vormaerin wrote...
Abominations are only one, particularly scary, risk of unfettered mages.   The real risk is that without the Chantry's protection, they would all be dragged into court wizard positions and used in the nobles' constant games of war and intrigue.  Or they would just become the nobles themselves.

But there are free mages.  Some are advisors, some guards, some just rich enough to buy Chantry leeway. 

At what point is the overall risk of free mages so low that you can no longer justify locking them all up?  If the answer is zero, then you'll never get there.  If there is some acceptable level of risk then what is it?  If 1 out of 1000 mages will go bad and try to mind control someone or give himself up to demon possession, is it still Ok to lock them all up?  At what point does the risk to the population become so small that it cannot outweigh the denial of basic rights to mages?  And has the Chantry proven that their method of reducing that risk - imprisonment, harrowing, tranquilling - is better than other countries' methods of apparently execising caution but not paranoia.

Remember that even the Chantry hasn't always felt that imprisonment was the only way to deal with mages.  At first they were merely restricted to using only the magic asked of them by the Chantry.  Keeping the fires lit and the rafters dusted according to the codex.

Restrictions on their activities is not the same as incarcertaion.  Saying mages have to be trained and let their locations be known is something most players have been totally OK with.  Saying research into strenghening dweomer runes and widely distributing the Litany of Adralla sounds good.  Setting up known limits on legal vs. illegal magic and the penalties for crossing the line would be necessary. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

GavrielKay wrote...
Every mage who turns to blood magic to escape the Chantry is the fault of the Chantry.

Every mages? That's exaggerating.

I don't see how Quentin, DuPois and Lady Harimann have anything to do with the Chantry.

[Silfren]

Vormaerin wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

If Dalish mages are ok, rich mages are ok, Rivaini seers are ok, Chasind shamans are ok and Tevinter magisters don't appear to be turning into abominations in record numbers then I fail to see why somehow the mages in Andrastian controlled nations are so much more likely to do harm.  Either they aren't and it's all a lie, or they are and you have to look at why those countries have more trouble than ones where mages are treated with respect rather than paranoia.

We've never met a Rivaini seer and we don't know what restrictions are placed on them.  The same is true of Chasind shamans.  Every real world culture puts restrictions on those believed to have supernatural power.  Usually some form of social isolation unless its directly associated with leadership in some fashion.

The Dalish and Tevinter mages are the rulers of their peoples, which is one of the things that the Circles are supposed to prevent.   Also, the Tevinter and Dalish are both seriously f'ed up people.   Its pretty telling that Merrill is one of the least psychotic Dalish we ever meet.

Abominations are only one, particularly scary, risk of unfettered mages.   The real risk is that without the Chantry's protection, they would all be dragged into court wizard positions and used in the nobles' constant games of war and intrigue.  Or they would just become the nobles themselves.

We do actually know enough about Rivaini seers to make educated guesses.  The wise-women are held in high regard by their communities, to the extent that the Chantry is unwelcome because the people have no interest in seeing their seers locked up in Circles.  We also know that Rivaini seers willingly allow themselves to be possessed--at least we have a codex about a book wherein this claim is made, which also indicates that this is public knowledge and not a deep, dark secret, so the common people of Rivain apparently don't have much problem with it.

The Rivaini people clearly aren't afraid of their mage neighbors, and it would seem that these women who become possessed do so after the fashion of Wynne and Anders, rather than becoming giant, mindless meatbags. 

Like it or not, it's a pretty safe bet that the Rivaini people haven't seen chaos and death on a catastrophic level to make them fear mages and want to follow the Chantry's policy in imprisoning them. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Silfren wrote...

I didn't say ANYTHING about abominations.

Really? Is that a trap? 

Silfren wrote...

I asked whether it is okay to use blood to FUEL approved magic.  What part about that scenario are you not getting?  Blood can be used to power ANY spell, not just the forbidden ones.

I'm not talking about a mage using blood magic to summon a demon and become an abomination.  I'm referring to a situation where a mage can't cast ANY spell without using her own blood to power it because she's out of mana and has no lyrium.  She could use a spell from the Spirit Healing school or the Arcane Warrior school or just a generic fireball or frost spell, but the only way she is going to be able to cast it is by using her blood.  She has people in her care that she is trying to protect, but she ain't gonna be able to cast any spells without resorting to her own blood.  Are you saying she should quit the fight and let people die?

 

 Yes. she should fight. On 2 Conditions:
1. ) If the act of using blood to fuel magic do not cause any harm to innocent people including the one she suppose to protect.
2. ) If the act of using blood to fuel magic do not turn her into hostile monster

Silfren wrote...

It is NOT a foregone conclusion that a mage who merely uses her blood to power a spell will become a monster.  So will you stop assuming that's the scenario I'm trying to illustrate and just answer it as I have set it up?

I have reply as above with bolded and underlined requirement. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 10 mai 2012 - 03:10 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Silfren wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Fact: Despite the fact that the lore does indicate that templars either can't defend against blood magic or have a harder time doing so, we DO have the Litany of Adralla, which defends against "blood magic mind domination" and by extension, demonic possession. 

No.
You insist on downplaying any and all danger of mages and abominations and putting all blame at the feet of the Chantry.

No?  No, what?  That is precisely what the lore we have about the Litany of Adralla states.  Adralla came up with methods to defend against demonic summons and every known form of mind control, and we have explicit proof--not evidence or mere hints but, outright, indiputable proof--of the Litany being used to prevent people from being possessed by demons in the Broken Circle quest of Origins.  You can't just say "no" and make all that available lore nonexistent.

Lithany of Adralla does has explicit proof to disrupt mind control magic. We used it in our inventory. And we need to activate it every two minutes or so. Work well in combat but not pratical to use for daily live solution. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 10 mai 2012 - 03:06 .