446 réponses à ce sujet

[TheGreenAlloy]

humes spork wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

they still have stealth ships, failing sheps interference they could send their own team to the ship so they're not as dependant on shep, the only variation is that they would probably destroy legion/gethVI if they found him

Legion wouldn't have disabled the geth dreadnought as a sign of good faith, the Reaper signal still would have been broadcast from Rannoch, and the quarians would still have died.

Moreover, the geth started that war? Seriously? The quarians opened fire on the geth's dyson sphere and blew it to hell as their first move, which made the geth stupid enough to go to the Reapers for help in the first place.

For all we know, if the quarians hadn't flown through the mass relay guns a-blazing the geth would have welcomed them on the spot and invited them to reoccupy Rannoch with their help.

[justafan]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Basically, the war in ME3 was solely caused by the geth.

Legion states that it knows the quarians want thier world back.
Legion states that the geth do not use said world.

Had the geth just left Rannoch and moved to another system, well off the beaten path, then they would have been left alone and the quarians could regain their world. Instead, the quarians had to fight for a planet the geth did not even need but refused to leave.

Not sure if serious...

you do know you have to convince the Quarians to be peaceful, and then they live with the Geth on Rannoch?

the geth were working with the reapers its hard for a species to not continually defend combat in such case, even zaal'koris the ultimate geth peace supporter defends continuing the war since the geth are helping the reapers

Yeah, buddy, the Geth are working with the Reapers because the Quarians destroyed their gorram superstructure. With galactic society at stake. 

ADmiral Xen and her "experiments" secured Quarian superiority over the Geth. WHich made the Geth accept the Reapers' offer. 

Geth have been working with the Reapers since Mass Effect 1.  And no geth ever bothered to tell the Quarians that not every geth supported the reapers.  Quarians attacked because the Heretics made peace seem unachievable.

[TheGreenAlloy]

Jog0907 wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

justafan wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

justafan wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

If you truly believe that it is possible for two groups to fight a war, and one of those groups have a casualty rate of 99%, which is completely unheard of in the Mass Effect universe, except in the cases where the Krogan killed the Rachni, and, of course, the Reapers exterminated all previous galatic civilizations, then you have curious ideas about war. In no way, is it even necessary to kill 1/3 of a population to win any war at all.

If a person commits an evil action, but does not know that it is evil, it still does not change the fact that they committed an evil deed. 

...and if you truly believe it's impossible for a race to be so colossally incompetent at warfare to intentionally wage a battle that has a 100% casualty rate (but for the interference of one Commander Shepard), which you witness onscreen, yet still refuse to believe that very same race without the benefit of three centuries' education in naval warfare and the strategy and tactics of the enemy they're fighting, to wage a war with a 99% casualty rate (your own figure, which is still completely unsupported by available information and really constitutes a hasty generalization in the first place), you have some damned curious ideas about war and the race in question (the quarians) yourself.

Uh, you do know the Quarians win that battle if you don't betray them right?  As in, so long as they are not stabbed in the back by a supposed ally, their strategy has a 100% success rate?  They didn't drive the geth, the strongest military after the Turians, out of 4 systems because of dumb luck.

Actually, the only reason they are not completely wiped out is because of your interference with the Geth Dreadnought and the Reaper Signals.  The technology they developed becomes useless unless you sabotage the Geth.

And that is only necessary because of Reaper interference in the first place.  1 v 1, Quarians win.

YAY! The quarians wipe out one of Shep's strongest allies with their tech-tricks while the Reapers are knocking on the door.

Alternatively, you could let Han'Gerrel throw his species at the Geth and die.

just saying given how th geth allied with the reapers when things got hard that I really wouldnt want them as allies

Things got hard because the Quarians smashed their Dyson Sphere to hell. That made the Geth dumb and vulnerable. They were preparing for war against the Reapers, gorramit, not some stupid ass space gypsies.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Calinstel wrote...

Basically, the war in ME3 was solely caused by the geth.

Legion states that it knows the quarians want thier world back.
Legion states that the geth do not use said world.

Had the geth just left Rannoch and moved to another system, well off the beaten path, then they would have been left alone and the quarians could regain their world. Instead, the quarians had to fight for a planet the geth did not even need but refused to leave.

They were trying to do that. Uploading themselves into the dyson sphere they were building near Rannoch. Tali and Koris even suggest negotiation to the other admirals but were out voted. The Geth didn't refuse to leave the planet they were simply attacked before they could upload all their programs and got bogged down in a conflict which Gerrel admits the quarians started.

[justafan]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

they still have stealth ships, failing sheps interference they could send their own team to the ship so they're not as dependant on shep, the only variation is that they would probably destroy legion/gethVI if they found him

Legion wouldn't have disabled the geth dreadnought as a sign of good faith, the Reaper signal still would have been broadcast from Rannoch, and the quarians would still have died.

Moreover, the geth started that war? Seriously? The quarians opened fire on the geth's dyson sphere and blew it to hell as their first move, which made the geth stupid enough to go to the Reapers for help in the first place.

For all we know, if the quarians hadn't flown through the mass relay guns a-blazing the geth would have welcomed them on the spot and invited them to reoccupy Rannoch with their help.

The War didn't start at Rannoch though, it happened in four other systems before it Reached Tikkun, plenty of time to send a message explaining the situation.

[TheGreenAlloy]

justafan wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Basically, the war in ME3 was solely caused by the geth.

Legion states that it knows the quarians want thier world back.
Legion states that the geth do not use said world.

Had the geth just left Rannoch and moved to another system, well off the beaten path, then they would have been left alone and the quarians could regain their world. Instead, the quarians had to fight for a planet the geth did not even need but refused to leave.

Not sure if serious...

you do know you have to convince the Quarians to be peaceful, and then they live with the Geth on Rannoch?

the geth were working with the reapers its hard for a species to not continually defend combat in such case, even zaal'koris the ultimate geth peace supporter defends continuing the war since the geth are helping the reapers

Yeah, buddy, the Geth are working with the Reapers because the Quarians destroyed their gorram superstructure. With galactic society at stake. 

ADmiral Xen and her "experiments" secured Quarian superiority over the Geth. WHich made the Geth accept the Reapers' offer. 

Geth have been working with the Reapers since Mass Effect 1.  And no geth ever bothered to tell the Quarians that not every geth supported the reapers.  Quarians attacked because the Heretics made peace seem unachievable.

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

[TheGreenAlloy]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Basically, the war in ME3 was solely caused by the geth.

Legion states that it knows the quarians want thier world back.
Legion states that the geth do not use said world.

Had the geth just left Rannoch and moved to another system, well off the beaten path, then they would have been left alone and the quarians could regain their world. Instead, the quarians had to fight for a planet the geth did not even need but refused to leave.

They were trying to do that. Uploading themselves into the dyson sphere they were building near Rannoch. Tali and Koris even suggest negotiation to the other admirals but were out voted. The Geth didn't refuse to leave the planet they were simply attacked before they could upload all their programs and got bogged down in a conflict which Gerrel admits the quarians started.

Pretty much. Punching that disgrace of a sentient being Gerrel was the only Renegade action I ever took on my main.

[Ender Ghost]

Woah, its like I'm watching the last thing on this subject play out all again.. the op even has the same profile pic... something tells me there is a trend here... >_>

[Erield]

Valentia X wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Basically, the war in ME3 was solely caused by the geth.

Legion states that it knows the quarians want thier world back.
Legion states that the geth do not use said world.

Had the geth just left Rannoch and moved to another system, well off the beaten path, then they would have been left alone and the quarians could regain their world. Instead, the quarians had to fight for a planet the geth did not even need but refused to leave.

What? The Quarians came and blasted the Geth sphere and left them mentally disoriented. The Geth didn't fire a shot first.

The war in ME3 didn't start with the Quarians attacking and destroying the sphere.  Other systems were retaken before the fleet converged on Rannoch ("conducted simultaneous strikes on four different systems.")  Furthermore, if the Geth were interested in making some kind of peace with the Quarians, then after ME2 they could have simply left the Quarian home-system.  There was no reason for them to build their giant Dyson-type sphere there.  They knew that the Quarians wanted their homeworld back, desperately.  Legion was in a position to have direct, first-hand knowledge of this through contact with Tali.

A logical being would have known that war for Rannoch between the Geth and the Quarians would be inevitable if issues were not addressed.  The scale of the timeframe may be unknown, but that's it.  Building a structure to house your entire species in a place that you know will be at war unless peace is made is just shy of retarded.  There was no reason for the Geth to cling to Rannoch as they did.  There was no reason for them to build their Sphere in the system where they did.  It would have been significantly more logical to create it in a system that was unknown/unexplored by organic species, specifically those that they are at war with.

The Quarian's flotilla was in danger of failing (according to lore from the novels that can be found on the wiki) and had a projected life expectancy of approximately 90 years.  Faced with the threat of the Reapers invading the galaxy, and the need for their ships, they needed some place where their people could just, simply, live.  Rannoch was the best fit, due to Quarian biology.  The options that the Quarians had were rather few, and I see them as this: 

1) Re-take Rannoch, hide their civilians and non-combatants and children, and then add their fleets to the war effort to fight the Reapers.

2) Take their entire flotilla and hide, hoping to manage to elude the Reapers until they finish their extermination cycle and leave.

Given that they had tech to basically blind the Geth, choosing option #1 was easy.  The Geth always had the option to leave, and live somewhere else.  Because Geth are software, they could move their entire population safely and effectively without resorting to an armada of millions of ships. 

[Jerieth]

I think at one point, Shepard was surprised that the Geth let the Qurians go after they took the planet? Don't you remember that? The Geth didn't want to destroy the Qurians, they did not know what effect destroying their creator would do. Also the Qurians in a way started it and continued it. I wouldn't blame the Geth for it, that's for sure.

[justafan]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

Shep is no messanger, he is a means to an end.  Legion joins you to stop the reapers and solve the Heretic problem, making peace with the Quarians was never his objective, nor a task he assigned to you.

[TheGreenAlloy]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I always did wonder why they hung around on Rannoch. They can exist entirely in space subsisting off materials they get from asteroids and non garden worlds. Legion even says they live in space stations. For all that Legion goes on about Rannoch just being a giant ball of mud with gravity, the geth seem fairly determined not to leave it alone.

Ever heard of the Geth building this huge supership? Yeah, it was close to Rannoch. The Geth were packing their bags when alcaholic uncle Quarian arrived with his single-digit IQ and a long leather belt to whip around with.

[G Kevin]

Ender Ghost wrote...

Woah, its like I'm watching the last thing on this subject play out all again.. the op even has the same profile pic... something tells me there is a trend here... >_>

Hi Ender!

I have a feeling this topic will be recycled over and over again. I don't know what's worse, bickering about the endings, or this?

[TheGreenAlloy]

justafan wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

Shep is no messanger, he is a means to an end.  Legion joins you to stop the reapers and solve the Heretic problem, making peace with the Quarians was never his objective, nor a task he assigned to you.

So? He desires it, and you can go for it, but it doesn't work anyway.

[JBPBRC]

Erield wrote...

The war in ME3 didn't start with the Quarians attacking and destroying the sphere.  Other systems were retaken before the fleet converged on Rannoch ("conducted simultaneous strikes on four different systems.")  Furthermore, if the Geth were interested in making some kind of peace with the Quarians, then after ME2 they could have simply left the Quarian home-system.  There was no reason for them to build their giant Dyson-type sphere there.  They knew that the Quarians wanted their homeworld back, desperately.  Legion was in a position to have direct, first-hand knowledge of this through contact with Tali.


A logical being would have known that war for Rannoch between the Geth and the Quarians would be inevitable if issues were not addressed.  The scale of the timeframe may be unknown, but that's it.  Building a structure to house your entire species in a place that you know will be at war unless peace is made is just shy of retarded.  There was no reason for the Geth to cling to Rannoch as they did.  There was no reason for them to build their Sphere in the system where they did.  It would have been significantly more logical to create it in a system that was unknown/unexplored by organic species, specifically those that they are at war with.

The Quarian's flotilla was in danger of failing (according to lore from the novels that can be found on the wiki) and had a projected life expectancy of approximately 90 years.  Faced with the threat of the Reapers invading the galaxy, and the need for their ships, they needed some place where their people could just, simply, live.  Rannoch was the best fit, due to Quarian biology.  The options that the Quarians had were rather few, and I see them as this: 

1) Re-take Rannoch, hide their civilians and non-combatants and children, and then add their fleets to the war effort to fight the Reapers.

2) Take their entire flotilla and hide, hoping to manage to elude the Reapers until they finish their extermination cycle and leave.

Given that they had tech to basically blind the Geth, choosing option #1 was easy.  The Geth always had the option to leave, and live somewhere else.  Because Geth are software, they could move their entire population safely and effectively without resorting to an armada of millions of ships. 

Where would they go?

Citadel space? War.

Terminus Systems? War.

Dark Space? Lulz.

Its easy to say, "Yeah the Geth could've relocated!"

Yeah. Geth were stuck in much the same position the Quarians were stuck in.

[Jog0907]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I always did wonder why they hung around on Rannoch. They can exist entirely in space subsisting off materials they get from asteroids and non garden worlds. Legion even says they live in space stations. For all that Legion goes on about Rannoch just being a giant ball of mud with gravity, the geth seem fairly determined not to leave it alone.

Ever heard of the Geth building this huge supership? Yeah, it was close to Rannoch. The Geth were packing their bags when alcaholic uncle Quarian arrived with his single-digit IQ and a long leather belt to whip around with.

the dyson sphere (a static structure) on tikkun and next to rannoch begs to disagree

Modifié par Jog0907, 02 mai 2012 - 03:18 .

[In Exile]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
There's a huge difference between the Migrant Fleet, which contains all of the remaining Quarians, believing that it still has the upper hand in the war and thus refusing to be believe the Commander, being killed by Reaper Plot Magic, and the entire prewar Quarian population some 300 years ago, which consisted of Billions of Quarians being wiped out. They are not all gathered together. It is not 1 huge battle resulting in their extinction. It took years for them to be reduced to mere millions.

You do realize that children would have numbered in the hundreds of millions, much more than the remaining Quarian population?

Well, no. The difference is 0, because the cause is the same thing: nonsensical plotting that wasn't fully thought out.

[lordnyx1]

Yeah, buddy, the Geth are working with the Reapers because the Quarians destroyed their gorram superstructure. With galactic society at stake. 

Admiral Xen and her "experiments" secured Quarian superiority over the Geth. WHich made the Geth accept the Reapers' offer. 

Geth have been working with the Reapers since Mass Effect 1.  And no geth ever bothered to tell the Quarians that not every geth supported the reapers.  Quarians attacked because the Heretics made peace seem unachievable.

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

Also before legion left the veil the only organics the geth had first hand knowledge on was the Quairan, pirates and other scum/idiots that would dare risk getting near the veil since all manners of evil kill bots were there(thanks again Quairan).
So why should they bother try and talk to the council that says there illegal creations that must be destroyed/shut off.
Instead they prepared for a war against the reapers/heretics.

Also the Geth were tending the planet and probably were still cleaning up damage from the war inparticullary if it did go nuclear it'd take some time to clean up.

Modifié par lordnyx1, 02 mai 2012 - 03:20 .

[Erield]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

justafan wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

Shep is no messanger, he is a means to an end.  Legion joins you to stop the reapers and solve the Heretic problem, making peace with the Quarians was never his objective, nor a task he assigned to you.

So? He desires it, and you can go for it, but it doesn't work anyway.

Legion also lies to you at three times during the Rannoch missions, every single time because he was willing to put the survival of even a few Geth over any sign of peaceful cooperation with Shepard.  I like Legion, he was one of my favorite characters in ME2, but he is not working towards peace with the Quarians--he's interested in survival at any cost.

That doesn't make him wrong, but it sure as hell doesn't make him, or the Geth in ME3, right.

[Raiil]

Erield wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Basically, the war in ME3 was solely caused by the geth.

Legion states that it knows the quarians want thier world back.
Legion states that the geth do not use said world.

Had the geth just left Rannoch and moved to another system, well off the beaten path, then they would have been left alone and the quarians could regain their world. Instead, the quarians had to fight for a planet the geth did not even need but refused to leave.

What? The Quarians came and blasted the Geth sphere and left them mentally disoriented. The Geth didn't fire a shot first.

The war in ME3 didn't start with the Quarians attacking and destroying the sphere.  Other systems were retaken before the fleet converged on Rannoch ("conducted simultaneous strikes on four different systems.")  Furthermore, if the Geth were interested in making some kind of peace with the Quarians, then after ME2 they could have simply left the Quarian home-system.  There was no reason for them to build their giant Dyson-type sphere there.  They knew that the Quarians wanted their homeworld back, desperately.  Legion was in a position to have direct, first-hand knowledge of this through contact with Tali.

A logical being would have known that war for Rannoch between the Geth and the Quarians would be inevitable if issues were not addressed.  The scale of the timeframe may be unknown, but that's it.  Building a structure to house your entire species in a place that you know will be at war unless peace is made is just shy of retarded.  There was no reason for the Geth to cling to Rannoch as they did.  There was no reason for them to build their Sphere in the system where they did.  It would have been significantly more logical to create it in a system that was unknown/unexplored by organic species, specifically those that they are at war with.

The Quarian's flotilla was in danger of failing (according to lore from the novels that can be found on the wiki) and had a projected life expectancy of approximately 90 years.  Faced with the threat of the Reapers invading the galaxy, and the need for their ships, they needed some place where their people could just, simply, live.  Rannoch was the best fit, due to Quarian biology.  The options that the Quarians had were rather few, and I see them as this: 

1) Re-take Rannoch, hide their civilians and non-combatants and children, and then add their fleets to the war effort to fight the Reapers.

2) Take their entire flotilla and hide, hoping to manage to elude the Reapers until they finish their extermination cycle and leave.

Given that they had tech to basically blind the Geth, choosing option #1 was easy.  The Geth always had the option to leave, and live somewhere else.  Because Geth are software, they could move their entire population safely and effectively without resorting to an armada of millions of ships. 

It was their home too. Why do Quarians get to play for keeps but not the Geth? The Quarians tried to wipe out the Geth, fail, but the Geth are the ones who have to move far from home instead of both of them staying there? The Quarians knew that the True Geth were cleaning up Rannoch (or most likely know via Tali), but instead of approaching the Geth through Tali and Legion, they decide to blow the Dyson Sphere to hell. Good move!

[justafan]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

justafan wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

Shep is no messanger, he is a means to an end.  Legion joins you to stop the reapers and solve the Heretic problem, making peace with the Quarians was never his objective, nor a task he assigned to you.

So? He desires it, and you can go for it, but it doesn't work anyway.

I'm just saying, desiring peace and attempting to make peace are two different things.  If the Geth wanted to make peace with the Quarians, they should contact the Quarians, not a random human who's only contact with Quarian was for a trial.

[humes spork]

justafan wrote...

The War didn't start at Rannoch though, it happened in four other systems before it Reached Tikkun, plenty of time to send a message explaining the situation.

...and the quarians are going to listen, just like that.

Just like they listened to Commander Shepard when s/he went to the Conclave, right? With the option of having an actual geth there to talk on its own race's behalf? Or listened to Tali?

Just like they listen to Commander Shepard when s/he is giving them sound strategic advice during their debacle of an invasion on Rannoch? Multiple times? Or listen to Commander Shepard when s/he warns the geth are about to become sentient, without both Legion and Tali there and Koris saved to turn the admiralty board's vote against Gerrel?

Yeah, somehow I doubt a "hi please don't kill us, we like you and want you to come home!" e-mail is going to do much other than get junk binned.

[TheGreenAlloy]

Erield wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

justafan wrote...

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

I already told you Shep is the messenger here, but the Conclave or whatever are too ignorant.

Shep is no messanger, he is a means to an end.  Legion joins you to stop the reapers and solve the Heretic problem, making peace with the Quarians was never his objective, nor a task he assigned to you.

So? He desires it, and you can go for it, but it doesn't work anyway.

Legion also lies to you at three times during the Rannoch missions, every single time because he was willing to put the survival of even a few Geth over any sign of peaceful cooperation with Shepard.  I like Legion, he was one of my favorite characters in ME2, but he is not working towards peace with the Quarians--he's interested in survival at any cost.

That doesn't make him wrong, but it sure as hell doesn't make him, or the Geth in ME3, right.

When does he lie?