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[justafan]

JBPBRC wrote...

justafan wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 The revenge scenario also assumes a level of uniformity among the quarians that's probably not likely in a post exile society. The more people, the more opinions, and so on.

Oh but the Quarians are exactly like this. Mention the word Geth amongst Quarians and you get one of two reacions. Absolute horror or foaming-at-the-helmet RAGE. While realistically you would most likely be correct, the Quarians seem rather single-minded in their pursuit of Geth destruction, even before their exile.

Considering peaceful Korris is representative of the Civilians (who make up most the fleet), and that the new Rannoch would likely be run by the civilians at least in the long run, I consider this unlikely.  You mostly get the "foaming-at-the-mouth stereotype from Gerrel and Xen, all the chatter on flotilla is about getting back the homeworld, not killing the geth.

Yes, and the only way of getting back the homeworld is...conflict with the Geth. Korris is an exception yes, but the majority of Quarians clearly favor military action over negotiation since...well...they go into military action.

But the initial premise of this particular chain, which has been cut out to avoid a never ending pyramid,  was that the geth just gave back Rannoch, in which case there would be no need to fight the geth other then revenge.

[JBPBRC]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...
Yes, and the only way of getting back the homeworld is...conflict with the Geth. Korris is an exception yes, but the majority of Quarians clearly favor military action over negotiation since...well...they go into military action.

What has this got to do with what they might do in some hypothetical future in which the geth left Rannoch, and they were able to recover as a species?  I'm not disputing that lots of quarians favored war now.  I'm saying I find it highly unlikely they would commit to genocidal revenge after they recovered as a species as I don't believe they are inherently violent or homogenous in opinion except in extreme circumstances. Fight or flight, which seems to be precisely what the Flotilla exhibits. 

The whole original statement I was responding to was that the geth did not give up Rannoch because the quarians might recover and then chase them down wanting revenge. 

Why wouldn't they? In their PRIME they were deadset on eliminating Geth, and this was before the Geth even fought back against the Quarian extermination attempts. But now? Now that the Geth have forever made a mark in Quarian history by killing millions of Quarians in self-defense and kicking them off-planet? 

We've seen, in-game, that the Quarians will only be appeased by having the most awesome of Mass Effect negotiators, Cmdr. Shepard himself, step in and point to the Reapers whle screaming bloody murder, or after the complete elimination of the Geth from their homeworld--also with Shepard screaming bloody murder and pointing at Reapers.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 02 mai 2012 - 04:35 .

[bennyjammin79]

Ugh, Quarians. *Sprays Lysol*

[justafan]

JBPBRC wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...
Yes, and the only way of getting back the homeworld is...conflict with the Geth. Korris is an exception yes, but the majority of Quarians clearly favor military action over negotiation since...well...they go into military action.

What has this got to do with what they might do in some hypothetical future in which the geth left Rannoch, and they were able to recover as a species?  I'm not disputing that lots of quarians favored war now.  I'm saying I find it highly unlikely they would commit to genocidal revenge after they recovered as a species as I don't believe they are inherently violent or homogenous in opinion except in extreme circumstances. Fight or flight, which seems to be precisely what the Flotilla exhibits. 

The whole original statement I was responding to was that the geth did not give up Rannoch because the quarians might recover and then chase them down wanting revenge. 

Why wouldn't they? In their PRIME they were deadset on eliminating Geth, and this was before the Geth even fought back against the Quarian extermination attempts. But now? Now that the Geth have forever made a mark in Quarian history by killing millions of Quarians in self-defense and kicking them off-planet? 

Because in the past they didn't even think the Geth were alive yet.  They had no intention of killing a sentient beings until the Geth fought back and they collectively **** their pants when they realized they had created hostile AI, and at that point the war had already started.  

However, the point is moot considering in the Peace ending you can clearly see that both sides can put aside the past in the interest of building the future.

[Averdi]

justafan wrote...

I'm pretty sure the travel advisory for Haestrom's system says that only stealth ships and drones can safely travel without being shot down, so getting a message to Rannoch is impossible.  The geth didn't exactly give the Quarians their e-mail adress either.

How did Shepard communicate with the council in ME1 from outside the Serpent Nebula?  I don't recall any lore to suggest that non-courier, interstellar communication is impossible.  Even if it was, it shouldn't be hard to have a drone drop into the outer system and broadcast a message before the geth are in a position to destroy it; not even they are that good.

As for the Normandy crew, the three pertenent characters to mending relations are Legion, Tali, and Shepard.  Legion leaves before contacting the Organic governments, Tali was just charged with treason, so her credibility is kinda shot, and Shepard is on trial for the genocide of Bahak system.  Not to mention all these interactions took place while they were employees of a terrorist organization.  Sadly, even if they try to convince everyone of peaceful geth, they have very little credibility.

I haven't suggested that the Normandy crews' experience and testimony alone would convince people of the geth's peaceful intentions (nor should it), but I'd think intelligent leaders would at least consider and investigate it further before proceeding with a war.  Sadly, the quarian leaders either aren't that intelligent, and/or they want a war despite the possiblity of peace.

Also, regardless of how Shepard and Tali are preceived by others, they leave the migrant fleet with at least a good deal of sympathy and respect for retaking the Aleri.  The quarian admirals have every reason to at least consider what they (or the survivors among their crew post-suicide mission) say.

As for Humans and Turians, I would hope the humans would try to mend relations if they somehow managed to kill 99% of the Turians.  As is, there is no comparable analogy unless the Rachni Queen comes back for round two against the Krogan.

I guess we'll have to just disagree here.  I measure moral responsiblity based upon actions and motivations, not simply relative levels of power.  A victim making peace overatures after wining would make them good, but not doing so doesn't make them bad.

Modifié par Averdi, 02 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[JBPBRC]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...
Why wouldn't they? In their PRIME they were deadset on eliminating Geth, and this was before the Geth even fought back against the Quarian extermination attempts. But now? Now that the Geth have forever made a mark in Quarian history by killing millions of Quarians in self-defense and kicking them off-planet? 

Because many of them would have gotten the principle thing they wanted, their home, back?  I'm not saying some quarians would not want revenge.  Some would most certainly want it.  Would a massive fleet with the full backing of the government(s) on Rannoch be mobilized to go chasing geth all over the galaxy for it?  This I highly doubt. 

And here we simply have a difference of opinion. From here there really is no way to prove one way or the other that our views are correct to fulfill the other view to satisfaction. Bioware wrote the Quarians as one-dimensional, throwing themselves into a war at the most inconveient time possible, the Reaper invasion, only attaining peace with galactic extinction visible on the horizon due to the Reaper threat.

I can just as easily point to the ending where the Geth are eliminated when you point to the Peace ending. You see the Quarians as being able to rise above their base need for revenge in the unlikely scenario of the Geth handing over Rannoch. I simply don't share that viewpoint.

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...
We've
seen, in-game, that the Quarians will only be appeased by having the
most awesome of Mass Effect negotiators, Cmdr. Shepard himself, step in
and point to the Reapers whle screaming bloody murder, or after the
complete elimination of the Geth from their homeworld--also with Shepard screaming bloody murder and pointing at Reapers.

Complete elimination of geth from their homeworld and complete elimination of geth aren't the same thing.

Also, double post, and I'm procrastinating writing a boring paper so off I go for now. 

You're right, they aren't the same thing. That ending actually results in the extinction of the Geth entirely, not just driving them from Rannoch. Essentially, unless you opt for the peace ending, either all of the Quarians or all of the Geth will be eliminated at Rannoch.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 02 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[justafan]

Averdi wrote...

justafan wrote...

I'm pretty sure the travel advisory for Haestrom's system says that only stealth ships and drones can safely travel without being shot down, so getting a message to Rannoch is impossible.  The geth didn't exactly give the Quarians their e-mail adress either.

How did Shepard communicate with the council in ME1 from outside the Serpent Nebula?  I don't recall any lore to suggest that non-courier, interstellar communication is impossible.  Even if it was, it shouldn't be hard to have a drone drop into the outer system and broadcast a message before the geth are in a position to destroy it; not even they are that good.

As for the Normandy crew, the three pertenent characters to mending relations are Legion, Tali, and Shepard.  Legion leaves before contacting the Organic governments, Tali was just charged with treason, so her credibility is kinda shot, and Shepard is on trial for the genocide of Bahak system.  Not to mention all these interactions took place while they were employees of a terrorist organization.  Sadly, even if they try to convince everyone of peaceful geth, they have very little credibility.

I haven't suggested that the Normandy crews' experience and testimony alone would convince people of the geth's peaceful intentions (nor should it), but I'd think intelligent leaders would at least consider and investigate it further before proceeding with a war.  Sadly, the quarian leaders either aren't that intelligent, and/or they want a war despite the possiblity of peace.

As for Humans and Turians, I would hope the humans would try to mend relations if they somehow managed to kill 99% of the Turians.  As is, there is no comparable analogy unless the Rachni Queen comes back for round two against the Krogan.

I guess we'll have to just disagree here.  I measure moral responsiblity based upon actions and motivations, not simply relative levels of power.  A victim making peace overatures after wining would make them good, but not doing so doesn't make them bad.

Instantaneous communication in Mass Effect is achieved in one of two ways.  First are comm bouys that either use the relays to transmit instantaneously to another buouy in a desired system.  The other form is Quantum Entaglement, which is a two way only form of communication.  It is highly unlikely the Quarians would have access to a buouy that can transmit to geth space (assuming all weren't destroyed in the war) and a QEC requires coordination to set up, not something woring states will do.

As for investigating, that is impossible unless they find a way to contact the geth (read point one) or send a stealth ship into geth space (which they don't have) and sending a stealth drone would require resources they can not spare in a suicide mission assuming they could build it in the first place.  Basically, their only option is to troll the extranet and hope the geth respond, otherwise they have no way of communicating or investigating.  Also, an imminent Reaper invasion doesn't leave much time for investigating a seemingly weak claim.

And agree to disagree on the final surrender/peace treaty point.

Modifié par justafan, 02 mai 2012 - 05:03 .

[Naoe]

The memories of the collective show that Quarians killed those who disagreed with the war... That leaves only those who agreed / believed. If you believe something is gonna kill you, then you are going to fight it all the way.

[dmonorato]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The Quarians attacked a baby equipped with a machinegun... the little baby wants to survive, so the little baby needs to supress this threath. During the Morning War the Geth were just infants, they did not comprehend the consequences of killing a whole species, for them, the Quarians went from being the Creators to be the boogeyman.

All fine and well. 

But this does not change the fact that the Geth essentially exterminated the Quarians as a race. Which so many seem to blame on the Quarians themselves, even though it makes no logical sense.

Well since the Quarians created the Geth and when the Geth evolved and began to develop a sense of self- awareness the Quarians decided to kill them, and instead got their asses handed to them so yeah it kinda is their fault. 

Modifié par dmonorato, 02 mai 2012 - 05:01 .

[goose2989]

Valentia X wrote...

The Quarians fought until it became clear they could not win, and then they ran away, potentially leaving millions stranded.

No one is arguing that Geth killed Quarians. Some of us are just pointing out that the Quarians started it.

And yet the Geth thought it was warranted to execute the Quarian children and elderly in their "rebellion." No matter what you feel about the Geth and Quarians, that's what the Geth would have had to do to leave the Quarians with a population of 17 million.

[Oldbones2]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Before the war between the Geth and Quarians, there used to be billions of Quarians. At the end of the war there were only a couple million left, probably smaller than the population of New York State. That means that if we assume that there were 2 billion quarians (which is probably a very, very low estimate) before the war, less than 1% of the population survived. 

Sorry, but that's has to be a deliberate attempt to wipe them all out. 
     
 I find it somewhat amusing when Legion said that they let the Quarians go because they didn't want to destroy them. He must have meant that they were bored of genocide and stuff.

 People do not fight themselves to extinction, if they are not forced to do so. That's a ridiculous concept and it sounds equally ridiculous when you repeat it to yourself. If the enemy is so vastly superior and has destroyed all of Quarian civilization, the remaining scraps of the population would cease fighting if its allowed to them. It's nonsensical to say that they wouldn't have sought peace if it was possible because they would no longer have the capacity to fight. If the Geth are a worthy enemy, which apparently they are. They would've destroyed or captured the quarian's fuel stations, factories, their military bases, their arms production, hospitals, food sources, government and just as importantly, with only 1% of them, of which a significant part must be children, and likely elderly, along with the mentally and physically disabled, their manpower. The Quarians would literally be UNABLE to fight back. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense that the Quarians even had a fleet left with which they could flee. Which also disproves the theory that the Quarians wanted to fight to the very last man, woman, and child. Because they didn't. They fled into exile for 300 years. 
     
Even the Krogan, the most savage and war-like of all the races in the galaxy surrendered, and even they must have been much more populous than the quarians were after their war. Even in the current time, the Krogan number in the billions, while the quarians are left with mere millions.
Yet it seems like most people, and even the game itself, try to present the Geth as the "good guys".
Phew. Done venting.

It would seem you are wrong, at least in the case of the Quarians.

I give you Han'Gerrel.

That stupid SOB knew that attacking the reReapered Geth would get them killed and he did it anyway.

On Earth.

The Japanese were dead set on defending Japan to the last child who could hold a gun.

Only after TWO atomic bombs, whose power and devastation the world had never seen before, were dropped did they surrender.

And afterwards a military coup went off that tried to retake control of the country, just so they could fight to the death.  And yes, these people actually thought that the US had more atomic bombs at their disposal.


It happens OP. 

[Naoe]

goose2989 wrote...
And yet the Geth thought it was warranted to execute the Quarian children and elderly in their "rebellion." No matter what you feel about the Geth and Quarians, that's what the Geth would have had to do to leave the Quarians with a population of 17 million.

1. They didn't have to kill them. Infant in a crib will die if left alone.
2. You forget the intelligence of theGeth changes with circumstances. In small groups they are more like animals. You can't morally judge a wolf, an elephant  or a hippo.
3. The geth evolved and improoved themselves in the 300 years... During the dawn war they had barely self-awareness. Expectig them to have morality all worked out (when even we don't yet) is ridiculous. A child who has no understanding of "good" "bad" and "murder" can not be called immoral or evil for shooting someone.

[GroverA125]

They weren't getting the message. They needed them to go, the only way of doing that would be to shoot at them. When they don't run when you've been shooting at them, given the circumstances, doctrine allows for you to shoot one. When they then start shooting you back, you have to kill a lot of them to break their morale and send them on their way.

They didn't do anything "wrong" necessarily, they were fighting for their survival, and the only way of doing that was to engage in hostilities. Were the Quarians to have left immediately, or allowed the Geth safe passage out of the cluster, then a lot less would have died, but that option was never available.

They didn't have much choice in the matter, if they had to kill civilians, it was for the reason of survival, combined with the fact that Geth programs have no morality, it wasn't suprising that the outcome was a lot of dead people, civilians included.

Modifié par GroverA125, 02 mai 2012 - 05:29 .

[Averdi]

justafan wrote...

Instantaneous communication in Mass Effect is achieved in one of two ways.  First are comm bouys that either use the relays to transmit instantaneously to another buouy in a desired system.  The other form is Quantum Entaglement, which is a two way only form of communication.  It is highly unlikely the Quarians would have access to a buouy that can transmit to geth space (assuming all weren't destroyed in the war) and a QEC requires coordination to set up, not something woring states will do.

As for investigating, that is impossible unless they find a way to contact the geth (read point one) or send a stealth ship into geth space (which they don't have) and sending a stealth drone would require resources they can not spare in a suicide mission assuming they could build it in the first place.  Basically, their only option is to troll the extranet and hope the geth respond, otherwise they have no way of communicating or investigating.  Also, an imminent Reaper invasion doesn't leave much time for investigating a seemingly weak claim.

Sorry, it just stretches the bounds of credibility that there's no way for the quarians to get a "Hey, want to talk peace?" to the geth.  Just send the signal/message through the relays, which do connect to geth space and which the quarians certainly have access to.  Shepard gets emails from quarian officers in ME2, so they must have access to the galactic communicats channels.  Just pipe that into Rannoch and wait and see.  At a minimum the quarians could use old communications protocols that they can be pretty sure the geth are familiar with.

Or, just drop a drone through the network and start broadcasting via radio.

Honestly, this can't be that hard for a society that invented AI and was a council race 250 years before humanity became interstellar.  Communications barriers just isn't a valid claim.

Investigating can come after communications have been established.
"Can we have our planet back?"
"Maybe.  Do you really want peace?"
"We want a world, we're dying up here.  Look, you don't use it anyway.  Pull your fleet out and just go hang out in your sphere.  We promise we won't attack."
"Ok, we'll pull our fleet out, but you can only send in your civilian ships.  Both of us keep our warships at least a jump away from Rannoch."
"Etc., etc., etc."

As for believing the crew, the quarian admirals appear to have been willing to listen to what they said about the geth dyson sphere, to the extent that they targetted and destroyed it first for maximum geth casualties.  But hey, that was third-hand hearsay that was worth investigating and acting upon because it helped to win the war, not like that crazy talk of possible peace, which isn't even worth exploring!

And by and large, the quarian gov't was utterly insensitive to the reaper threat until Shepard physically dropped in on them.

[daytona123]

 In ME3 there is a scene depicting the start of the war.  In it, it shows Quarians killing Quarians who didnt want to destroy the newly sentient Geth which could mean that alot of those Quarians killed were from other Quarians(we don't know how many were killed Leigon doesn't say).

Also If the Geth did want to wipe them out they wouldn't have let them flee the planet or would have actually hunted them down and wiped them out.

I think they basically just have always tried to defend themselves as they still seem to somewhat respect revear the Quarians.

[Averdi]

goose2989 wrote...

And yet the Geth thought it was warranted to execute the Quarian children and elderly in their "rebellion." No matter what you feel about the Geth and Quarians, that's what the Geth would have had to do to leave the Quarians with a population of 17 million.

This is just nonsense, logically.  There's nothing beyond vague deductive hand waving from the total quarian casualty number to suggest that the geth executed anyone, let alone civilians specifically.  Bad science....bad!

[goose2989]

Averdi wrote...

goose2989 wrote...

And yet the Geth thought it was warranted to execute the Quarian children and elderly in their "rebellion." No matter what you feel about the Geth and Quarians, that's what the Geth would have had to do to leave the Quarians with a population of 17 million.

This is just nonsense, logically.  There's nothing beyond vague deductive hand waving from the total quarian casualty number to suggest that the geth executed anyone, let alone civilians specifically.  Bad science....bad!

The exact same logic can be applied to those that believe the Geth were simple victims in the Morning War

[justafan]

Averdi wrote...

justafan wrote...

Instantaneous communication in Mass Effect is achieved in one of two ways.  First are comm bouys that either use the relays to transmit instantaneously to another buouy in a desired system.  The other form is Quantum Entaglement, which is a two way only form of communication.  It is highly unlikely the Quarians would have access to a buouy that can transmit to geth space (assuming all weren't destroyed in the war) and a QEC requires coordination to set up, not something woring states will do.

As for investigating, that is impossible unless they find a way to contact the geth (read point one) or send a stealth ship into geth space (which they don't have) and sending a stealth drone would require resources they can not spare in a suicide mission assuming they could build it in the first place.  Basically, their only option is to troll the extranet and hope the geth respond, otherwise they have no way of communicating or investigating.  Also, an imminent Reaper invasion doesn't leave much time for investigating a seemingly weak claim.

Sorry, it just stretches the bounds of credibility that there's no way for the quarians to get a "Hey, want to talk peace?" to the geth.  Just send the signal/message through the relays, which do connect to geth space and which the quarians certainly have access to.  Shepard gets emails from quarian officers in ME2, so they must have access to the galactic communicats channels.  Just pipe that into Rannoch and wait and see.  At a minimum the quarians could use old communications protocols that they can be pretty sure the geth are familiar with.

Or, just drop a drone through the network and start broadcasting via radio.

Honestly, this can't be that hard for a society that invented AI and was a council race 250 years before humanity became interstellar.  Communications barriers just isn't a valid claim.

Investigating can come after communications have been established.
"Can we have our planet back?"
"Maybe.  Do you really want peace?"
"We want a world, we're dying up here.  Look, you don't use it anyway.  Pull your fleet out and just go hang out in your sphere.  We promise we won't attack."
"Ok, we'll pull our fleet out, but you can only send in your civilian ships.  Both of us keep our warships at least a jump away from Rannoch."
"Etc., etc., etc."

As for believing the crew, the quarian admirals appear to have been willing to listen to what they said about the geth dyson sphere, to the extent that they targetted and destroyed it first for maximum geth casualties.  But hey, that was third-hand hearsay that was worth investigating and acting upon because it helped to win the war, not like that crazy talk of possible peace, which isn't even worth exploring!

And by and large, the quarian gov't was utterly insensitive to the reaper threat until Shepard physically dropped in on them.

I'm sure there is SOME way to get a radio message in, but even then, we don't know if the geth would even respond (it is stated that the council HAS tried to make contact in the past to no response).  It is even possible the Quarians attempted this already, but again, speculation.

As for believing the crew, nowhere is it stated that they target the dyson sphere because of anything Tali or Shepard said.  The most likely explanation is they see a giant Geth construct, so they blew it up.  They were at war and it was a pretty big target of obvious value to their enemy.

To quote admiral Gerrel in ME2 when told that the migrant fleet will be needed to fight the Reapers (and yes they are mentioned by name) "Then we will need a homeworld to shelter our civilians".  The Quarians were aware of the Reaper threat as far back as ME2 and let you know way back then the only way they could fight the reapers was with a world of their own.

Anyways, its almost 2am where I am, time to call it a day.  Been fun discussing this topic with everyone 

Modifié par justafan, 02 mai 2012 - 05:57 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Simple: Martial Law.

Quarians implemented it, which means a draft. Drafts mean that most of the adult population (and some of the child population after a certain point) is going to be carrying a gun. Most of the adult population carrying guns means that most of the adult population is going to be firing guns. Most of the adult population firing guns means that most of the adult population is a threat. Most of the adult population being a threat means that most of the adult population is a fair target in a war of self defense.

Did the geth choose the most logical course of action? No, not at all. The geth's mistake has always been a refusal to retreat, it's as if they don't understand the concept. It is THE MOST logical course of action, ensuring you lose almost no one and your "enemy" loses almost no one. Instead they fought for ground they didn't care about. At some point they had access to or had built ships so they should have just loaded up and left the cluster.

I sympathize with the sentiment in theory but a robot would have retreated. In fact, a robot would never become aggressive unless presented with no other options. The chance of permanent destruction and resource loss is too great to justify acting in retaliation.

[Averdi]

goose2989 wrote...

The exact same logic can be applied to those that believe the Geth were simple victims in the Morning War

Not quite, even the quarians admit that they tried to eradicate the geth.  The basic facts of the cause of the Morning War are not in dispute.  Uncertainty arises with respect to its prosecution.

I'm not stating a conclusion that the geth did not deliberatly kill quarian civilians, I'm saying that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that such murder is the only explanation for the quarian casualty rate.

Personally, I feel that evidence from the game (Legion, Tali, missions, the quarian admirals, etc.) argues against the geth committing war crimes and suggests other possible causes for such a drop in quarian numbers, but I can't be absolutely sure of them.  No one can.

[Averdi]

justafan wrote...

I'm sure there is SOME way to get a radio message in, but even then, we don't know if the geth would even respond (it is stated that the council HAS tried to make contact in the past to no response).  It is even possible the Quarians attempted this already, but again, speculation.

I can't recall anything to suggest the peace efforts by the quarians were rebuffed.  The only thing I remember was Legion implying the lack of such efforts by stating that the geth can't make peace by themselves.

As for believing the crew, nowhere is it stated that they target the dyson sphere because of anything Tali or Shepard said.  The most likely explanation is they see a giant Geth construct, so they blew it up.  They were at war and it was a pretty big target of obvious value to their enemy.

True, it doesn't.  I was extrapolating somewhat from the fact that, prior to Legion mentioning it (and the quarians not mentioning it at all), Shepard and presumably organic societies had no knowledge of the sphere or larger geth plans.  It is, of course, possible that as the quarians began the war, they noticed the sphere (it's unclear to me how likely this is) and logically attacked it.  Seems kind of convenient to me though.

To quote admiral Gerrel in ME2 when told that the migrant fleet will be needed to fight the Reapers (and yes they are mentioned by name) "Then we will need a homeworld to shelter our civilians".  The Quarians were aware of the Reaper threat as far back as ME2 and let you know way back then the only way they could fight the reapers was with a world of their own.

Frankly, I think Gerrel is being less than forthright here.  They don't need a homeworld, they have their liveships.  If anything, the quarians are better equipped than most to protect their civilians from reapers due to said civilians' mobility.  Also, he just seems to be using the reapers here as a stick to push for his true goal - an attack to retake the homeworld; the actual reaper threat is an afterthought.  And again, he doesn't even talk about them until and unless Shepard actually shows up to push the discussion.

Modifié par Averdi, 02 mai 2012 - 06:17 .

[huntsman2310]

Nobody said the Geth didn't kill a lot of Quarians.

Its just that the blame should be put on the Quarians for putting themselves in that situation.

[moater boat]

Some people can't think for themselves. The games beat you over the head with the ridiculous idea that the Geth were Innocent victims, when in reality they killed about 99.7% of the Quarians, chased them not only off Rannoch, but EVERY colony world they had. Then spent the next 300 years killing anyone that came close to them. To top things off, they don't even like the planets and would rather live in space.

And then there is the whole siding with the Reapers thing.

Basically the Geth are by no means innocent victims, they are a serious threat to all life.