446 réponses à ce sujet

[huntsman2310]

Its not exactly a retcon.

Tali tells you her side - the Quarian's side that is - of what happened.

While its a interesting bit of history and backstory for them, it doesn't get elaborated on until you meet Legion in ME2.

And finally you see actual video footage of the Geth's birth in ME3.

Its called building a story arc.

[Raiil]

Eterna5 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

The Quarians fought until it became clear they could not win, and then they ran away, potentially leaving millions stranded.

No one is arguing that Geth killed Quarians. Some of us are just pointing out that the Quarians started it.

If your computer asked if it had a soul what would you do? 

I'd smash mine. 

Probably stare at it in confusion, and then ask why. But I find AI a) interesting and not inherently, or rather automatically, dangerous. 

[Shadow Shep]

 Just thought I would show some excerpts from the Mass Effect wikia, because this thread has inspired an interest.  If this is to be taken as a legitimate source for the discussion I think it may interesting.  I won't post the entire sections respectively but I will post a link.  Both of these are from the "History" section of the respective races.  

From the Quarian Page:

"The quarians severely underestimated the power and sophistication of the geth's neural network. The geth reacted to defend themselves, and the resulting confrontation erupted into a planetwide war. Billions of quarians died, and the survivors were eventually driven from their homeworld." 

(I just wanted to point out that from the way it is described here, the billions of people actually died on the planet of Rannoch, and were not pursued and picked off.  That's how I interperet it anyways)

From the Geth page:


"At first, the geth did not respond to the termination order with violence; it was only after panicked quarians fired upon them that the geth thought to pick up weapons and defend themselves. Even after this, some geth remained loyal to their creators and put themselves in harm's way to protect geth sympathizers from persecution; likewise, there were quarians who did not feel the geth deserved to die. However, as time went on, the geth sympathizers were outnumbered, and the war continued. The war ended when the surviving quarians evacuated their home world and colonies in the Perseus Veil. Unknown to the quarians themselves, the geth actually allowed them to leave; unsure of the repercussions of eradicating an entire species, and having decided that the quarians were now too weak to be a threat, the geth decided to draw back their forces so that the surviving quarians could flee. The fleet of quarian ships that escaped the Veil became known as the Migrant Fleet, and has been roaming the galaxy ever since."

I hope this provides some insight, or was just interesting to read. 

Modifié par DJCubed, 03 mai 2012 - 06:49 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Long story short: It's a retcon.

In Mass Effect, the geth were basically introduced as cylons; genocidal robots committed to wiping out their creators and other "inferior" species. Hence the huge numbers of quarian casualties, which were established as canon.

From Mass Effect 2 onwards, however, they retroactively portrayed the geth as victims rather than perpetrators of a genocide, and turned the villains from the first game into a heretical faction that had broken ties with the geth consensus.

Do these two versions fit together? Well, it takes quite a hefty dose of suspension of disbelief, but as far as retcons go, it's tolerable.

Wrong. In a conversation with Tali aboard the Normandy in ME1, Tali explains that the Quarians preemtively attacked and all three possible responses from Shepard point out that the geth acted in self defense. Tali deflects with your premise, and the plot thread of the geth's true intentions is both introduced and put on hold until ME2.

There was foreshadowing of the events of ME2 in ME1, you just had to care enough to notice.

[moater boat]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Some people can't think for themselves. The games beat you over the head with the ridiculous idea that the Geth were Innocent victims, when in reality they killed about 99.7% of the Quarians, chased them not only off Rannoch, but EVERY colony world they had. Then spent the next 300 years killing anyone that came close to them. To top things off, they don't even like the planets and would rather live in space.

And then there is the whole siding with the Reapers thing.

Basically the Geth are by no means innocent victims, they are a serious threat to all life.

And you're less bias than them how? BS statistic with no in-game source, insults to people you disagree with, and intentional dismissal of information provided to you in the games.

I don't really see how your position is stronger than their's.

No in game source? Everything I said is VERIFIED BY THE GAME. Even the 99.7% part.

Let me explain how this is SUPPOSED to work. I make a statement, then I back it up with evidence that is directly from the game. If you're going to tell me I am wrong, you need to come back with evidence that counters the evidence I provided. But you can't because it doesn't exist, so instead you just plug your ears and repear "I can't hear you! I can't hear you!"

[moater boat]

Averdi wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Some people can't think for themselves. The games beat you over the head with the ridiculous idea that the Geth were Innocent victims, when in reality they killed about 99.7% of the Quarians, chased them not only off Rannoch, but EVERY colony world they had. Then spent the next 300 years killing anyone that came close to them. To top things off, they don't even like the planets and would rather live in space.

And then there is the whole siding with the Reapers thing.

Basically the Geth are by no means innocent victims, they are a serious threat to all life.

/sigh Haters gonna hate

Ultimately, the geth's great sin, beyond being synthetic, was their success.  By almost any objective yardstick, the krogon are a more aggressive and culpable race, but they were decimated by the genophage, and so attract sympathy.

My guess is that there would have been no hand wringing among organic races if the quarians had wiped out the geth, either in the Morning War or the new one, but rather just a sigh of relief.  For shame.

It's not hate, it's cold hard logic that isn't tainted by an emotional attachment to a very likable character (I mean Legion, who is the main reason anyone likes the Geth)

And to say that the Krogan are more agressive is just denying facts. A non-Krogan visiting Tuchanka wouldn't exactly be safe, but it is nothing compared to the xenophobia of the Geth, who killed anyone that came close to them for a full 3 centuries.

As for how the organic races would react if the Geth were wiped out, I agree, they probably wouldn't be to upset. Do you know why? Because they haven't been brainwashed by Bioware to falsly believe that the Geth are innocent victims, unlike most of the fanbase.

[Swimming Ferret]

The way I see it, the Quarians started the war but couldn't finish it and play the victim because they didn't try to understand. They deserved to get their butts kicked off their planet. Then they were stupid enough to go back to war with the geth while the Reapers prowling all over the place. Utter morons.

[Naoe]

OP (and those who agree) you really should go read up on the Geth a little...
1. the Geth intelligence changes with circumstances. In small groups they are on the same level as anymals. You can not moraly judge a hippo.
2. The geth improved themselves signifantly during the 300 years. In the beginning they were barely sentient. You can not expect them to have morality all figured out at that time, when even we don't yet. You can not moraly judge a child who shot someone, when it has no understanding of "good" "bad" and "murder".
3. Quarians killed those who opposed the war, leaving only those who supported it. If you believe something is going to kill you anyway, you will fight it to the last => hence the population of migrant fleet.

[Jassu1979]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

Long story short: It's a retcon.

In Mass Effect, the geth were basically introduced as cylons; genocidal robots committed to wiping out their creators and other "inferior" species. Hence the huge numbers of quarian casualties, which were established as canon.

From Mass Effect 2 onwards, however, they retroactively portrayed the geth as victims rather than perpetrators of a genocide, and turned the villains from the first game into a heretical faction that had broken ties with the geth consensus.

Do these two versions fit together? Well, it takes quite a hefty dose of suspension of disbelief, but as far as retcons go, it's tolerable.

Wrong. In a conversation with Tali aboard the Normandy in ME1, Tali explains that the Quarians preemtively attacked and all three possible responses from Shepard point out that the geth acted in self defense. Tali deflects with your premise, and the plot thread of the geth's true intentions is both introduced and put on hold until ME2.

There was foreshadowing of the events of ME2 in ME1, you just had to care enough to notice.

I remember that dialogue, but there's also the original codex entry AND Karpyshyn's take on the matter in Mass Effect: Revelation - both of which pretty much substantiate the claim that the geth murdered literally billions of quarians in what can only be described as genocide. The quarians might not have been without fault in that, even in the original version of events, but apart from that, the early Mass Effect universe pretty much went with: "Artificial Intelligence is VERY bad news".

[Versidious]

You're right, OP, the Geth absolutely were genocidal. They are also victims of attempted genocide. You only have to look at history to see how populations at large respond to such things (I have no intention of providing examples of such, as this would likely result in off-topic controversy). They respond with fear, hatred, violence, and expectations of violence. Legion states that the Geth broke off pursuit only because they were not certain that complete obliteration of the Quarians was a good idea, because they could not foresee all the consequences of wiping out a species. For example, perhaps if they had pursued the Quarians to utter extinction, the rest of the Galaxy might well have gotten involved, seeing them as genocidal machines rather than just rebellious ones, especially as they would need to pursue them to other areas of the galaxy, perhaps even Council Space, etc etc. The Council fleets certainly could have annihilated the Geth. As it was, the fleeing Quarians no longer presented any sort of immediate, significant threat to the Geth's long term survival. It was as much strategic as it was moral, and when noone came a-knocking at Rannoch, .

Organics travelling through the Perseus Veil for the past three centuries have not returned. The Geth conquered all Quarian colonies. They are certainly not friendly towards organics. The long-standing (since ME1) concept of the Quarians striking first, and ME3's demonstration of how much the Geth were hunted before they finally fought back, is not to show them as pacifists, but to show that they are hostile not because they view organics as inferior, only worthy of death, but because they fear us. It is a reiteration of the response from the thieving AI in ME1, where it states that organics exist to destroy AI, and that is why it will take its assumed assassin down with it. It commits violence because it expects it, just like the motives behind the Quarians' attempts to shut down the Geth. Fear often leads to violence.

In terms of the Quarians fighting to their death... Well, they already feared genocide from the Geth. When the council refused to help them, they likely assumed that they were alone in a fight to the death. However, a more important factor is that, since they were not fleeing *to* anywhere, ships couldn't take them off planet, then put them down somewhere, and come back for more. Only as many Quarians who could fit on those ships could escape. Everyone else left? A potential threat to the Geth. Better just put them down. Nasty, yes, but no nastier than the initial Quarian attempt to eradicate the sentient Geth that were exhibiting free will. Their creators had tried to kill them when they didn't even yet present an actual threat, and killed anyone who tried to stop this genocide. Clearly, Creators are too dangerous to be allowed to live around Geth, nd any that hadn't fled must be exterminated.

In the end, it is only through the Quarian demonstration of willingness for peace, and Shepard's demonstration to Legion that organics can be friends and allies to the synthetics, are the Geth finally convinced that they *can* live in peace with the Quarians. When you convince the Geth and Quarians to live together, it is not just the Quarians you are convincing, but also the Geth.

[Kilshrek]

Aaleel wrote...

When the Quarians finally gave up, ceased fighting and left the planet, the Geth let them go without pursuit. The Quarians continued fighting, even in a losing cause determined how many of them died, not the Geth.

/thread

The Quarians started it, they gave up, they cut and run, they paid the price.

If the Geth did indeed attempt to destroy the Quarians, there would be no Tali'Zorah standing before Shepard on the Citadel in ME 1. Of that you can be sure.

Or did you not pay attention to Legion and the Geth consensus?

edit : Some people don't seem to realise tha the Geth had built up their reputation by then, the Quarians deemed the Geth genocidal monsters. And who would dispute it? Only a pittance of the Quarian population remained, and the Geth planted them firmly on the galactic doorstep, as it were. Legion had always mentioned that the Geth desired no conflict with organics, but organics always seem to want to have conflict with the Geth.

As Legion said, they had no concept of anything, they were babies born into fully adult bodies. They trolled salarians to see their reactions. They aren't blameless, but they certainly do not deserve the lion's share of the blame. That goes to the first Quarian who shot the first unit. And every Quarian who killed one of their own when they tried to shield the Geth. The Quarians probably killed as many of their own initially, so how is that the fault of the Geth?

Modifié par Kilshrek, 03 mai 2012 - 11:25 .

[gmboy902]

Valentia X wrote...

The Quarians fought until it became clear they could not win, and then they ran away, potentially leaving millions stranded.

There's a difference between fighting until you don't think you can win and fighting until a fraction of a percent of your entire species' population is decimated, or allowing a large percentage to be. By the time they retreated it should have long been obvious that they were losing.

[Pottumuusi]

Oh look, it's the black and white game once again.

[Kilshrek]

gmboy902 wrote...

There's a difference between fighting until you don't think you can win and fighting until a fraction of a percent of your entire species' population is decimated, or allowing a large percentage to be. By the time they retreated it should have long been obvious that they were losing.

Collective stupidity is an incredible thing, look at the human race for many examples.

Individually many people you meet are okay, perhaps even nice. But put many of those in a group, and suddenly you get a mob with the intelligence of a mould, and the belligerence of a wounded animal.

[DJBare]

Jog0907 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

To paraphrase

Legion: Every attempt at negotiation with the quarians was met by attack, 100% of the time.

And like one poster stated earlier, the geth were basically children under attack.

"Treating every species like ones' own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphicism."

geth can't be compared to children they are their own thing,

Yes I was anthropomorphising, I admit to that, but it was as EDI said, it was "confusing" coming under attack while becoming "aware"; EDI was the VI on Luna in ME1.
I like the quarians, but even they admit to starting the war out of shear panic.

[Gruzmog]

gmboy902 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

The Quarians fought until it became clear they could not win, and then they ran away, potentially leaving millions stranded.

There's a difference between fighting until you don't think you can win and fighting until a fraction of a percent of your entire species' population is decimated, or allowing a large percentage to be. By the time they retreated it should have long been obvious that they were losing.

Even in this time that would have been a moot point. A world wide war in todays world would see 99% of the world populace killed on the first day after nuclear launch 1.

Now we don't see evidence of nuclear weapon impacts on Rannoch, but as the Geth were cheap labor. It's not that hard to assume they were spread almost everywhere on the planot when this all went down. Killing billions would have been a matter of days. The prolonged fighting would only occur with small pockets of resistance. I see no problem with the size of the migrant fleet.

Edit: The reapers only take so long with earth and other planets because they wan't to convert the populace into reapers. If they only wanted us dead it would have been an orbital bombardement and a  matter of hours.

Modifié par Gruzmog, 03 mai 2012 - 11:37 .

[JBPBRC]

Gruzmog wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

The Quarians fought until it became clear they could not win, and then they ran away, potentially leaving millions stranded.

There's a difference between fighting until you don't think you can win and fighting until a fraction of a percent of your entire species' population is decimated, or allowing a large percentage to be. By the time they retreated it should have long been obvious that they were losing.

Even in this time that would have been a moot point. A world wide war in todays world would see 99% of the world populace killed on the first day after nuclear launch 1.

Which is why it hasn't happened (yet, and hopefully never will), Unlike the Quarian or Geth societies, the major powers of the real world understand that WW3 effectively kills everyone and prefer just to yell at each other and occasionally allows things to blow over in small localized conflicts with conventional weaponry, knowing that nuclear fire is destined to wipe everything out.

And then the GLORIOUS REIGN OF LIBERTY PRIME BEGINS.

THE LAST DOMINO FALLS HERE.
COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE.
EMBRACE DEMOCRACY, OR YOU WILL BE ERADICATED!

Modifié par JBPBRC, 03 mai 2012 - 11:42 .

[moater boat]

Naoe wrote...

OP (and those who agree) you really should go read up on the Geth a little...
1. the Geth intelligence changes with circumstances. In small groups they are on the same level as anymals. You can not moraly judge a hippo.

You can't morally judge an animal...

Nor can you get too upset if someone puts an animal down that went berserk and started killing people.

You just justified the quarians actions in the war. Thanks

[JBPBRC]

moater boat wrote...

Naoe wrote...

OP (and those who agree) you really should go read up on the Geth a little...
1. the Geth intelligence changes with circumstances. In small groups they are on the same level as anymals. You can not moraly judge a hippo.

You can't morally judge an animal...

Nor can you get too upset if someone puts an animal down that went berserk and started killing people.

You just justified the quarians actions in the war. Thanks

Except the Quarians began destroying Geth LONG before the Geth started fighting back? They poked a bear one too many times, oh hey, the bear got tired of being poked.

[EricHVela]

I can say it because I played ME2 with Legion and the Geth Fighers side-mission in ME3.

Case: closed.

[Jayleia]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Before the war between the Geth and Quarians, there used to be billions of Quarians. At the end of the war there were only a couple million left, probably smaller than the population of New York State. That means that if we assume that there were 2 billion quarians (which is probably a very, very low estimate) before the war, less than 1% of the population survived. 

Sorry, but that's has to be a deliberate attempt to wipe them all out. 
     
 I find it somewhat amusing when Legion said that they let the Quarians go because they didn't want to destroy them. He must have meant that they were bored of genocide and stuff.

 People do not fight themselves to extinction, if they are not forced to do so. That's a ridiculous concept and it sounds equally ridiculous when you repeat it to yourself. If the enemy is so vastly superior and has destroyed all of Quarian civilization, the remaining scraps of the population would cease fighting if its allowed to them. It's nonsensical to say that they wouldn't have sought peace if it was possible because they would no longer have the capacity to fight. If the Geth are a worthy enemy, which apparently they are. They would've destroyed or captured the quarian's fuel stations, factories, their military bases, their arms production, hospitals, food sources, government and just as importantly, with only 1% of them, of which a significant part must be children, and likely elderly, along with the mentally and physically disabled, their manpower. The Quarians would literally be UNABLE to fight back. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense that the Quarians even had a fleet left with which they could flee. Which also disproves the theory that the Quarians wanted to fight to the very last man, woman, and child. Because they didn't. They fled into exile for 300 years. 
     
Even the Krogan, the most savage and war-like of all the races in the galaxy surrendered, and even they must have been much more populous than the quarians were after their war. Even in the current time, the Krogan number in the billions, while the quarians are left with mere millions.
Yet it seems like most people, and even the game itself, try to present the Geth as the "good guys".
Phew. Done venting.

This thread?  Again?

We know what the Codex entries say.  We know the actions and words of Legion, Tali, Raan, etc.

We have some limited records from one side of the conflict.

Assuming that all information is correct in the Codex entries (HERE'S THE FAIL), then something really, REALLY bad happened to the Quarian population.

That's all we know, we don't know if it was genocide, the years right after their exodus when they were getting acclimated to living in suits, a last-ditch suicide run by a lunatic willing to sacrifice millions, if not billions of his own to kill more.

And that's ASSUMING that the Codex entries are entirely, 100% correct.  Personally, I think they completely whiffed on that, made some numbers that sounded cool, and didn't think the implications of it through.  And they sure weren't going to waste time giving us deep insight about the history between the Quarians and the Geth...not when they had to work on giving Starchild some epic lines...

...seriously, its like BioWare wasn't even trying

[moater boat]

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Naoe wrote...

OP (and those who agree) you really should go read up on the Geth a little...
1. the Geth intelligence changes with circumstances. In small groups they are on the same level as anymals. You can not moraly judge a hippo.

You can't morally judge an animal...

Nor can you get too upset if someone puts an animal down that went berserk and started killing people.

You just justified the quarians actions in the war. Thanks

Except the Quarians began destroying Geth LONG before the Geth started fighting back? They poked a bear one too many times, oh hey, the bear got tired of being poked.

The Geth rebelled before the Quarians resorted to violence. Even Legion admits to this in the consensus mission. Regardless, if they are effectively "on the same level as animals" that means that the quarians were not wrong to consider them property that could be destroyed as they see fit.

What so many people fail to understand, and I am not just talking about this issue, is that rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. You can't simultaneously absolve Geth of any wrongdoing due to their limited mental state, and at the same time, afford them all the rights of a fully developed sentient intelligent creature.

[moater boat]

Kilshrek wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

When the Quarians finally gave up, ceased fighting and left the planet, the Geth let them go without pursuit. The Quarians continued fighting, even in a losing cause determined how many of them died, not the Geth.

/thread

The Quarians started it, they gave up, they cut and run, they paid the price.

If the Geth did indeed attempt to destroy the Quarians, there would be no Tali'Zorah standing before Shepard on the Citadel in ME 1. Of that you can be sure.

Or did you not pay attention to Legion and the Geth consensus?

edit : Some people don't seem to realise tha the Geth had built up their reputation by then, the Quarians deemed the Geth genocidal monsters. And who would dispute it? Only a pittance of the Quarian population remained, and the Geth planted them firmly on the galactic doorstep, as it were. Legion had always mentioned that the Geth desired no conflict with organics, but organics always seem to want to have conflict with the Geth.

As Legion said, they had no concept of anything, they were babies born into fully adult bodies. They trolled salarians to see their reactions. They aren't blameless, but they certainly do not deserve the lion's share of the blame. That goes to the first Quarian who shot the first unit. And every Quarian who killed one of their own when they tried to shield the Geth. The Quarians probably killed as many of their own initially, so how is that the fault of the Geth?

Let me get this straight. The Geth wipe out over 99% of all quarians, and then as the quarians are fleeing, they chase them 100 km out into space. But the fact that they let a small handful (less than 0.3%) of the quarians live, they are somehow saints?

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

Legion even admits that letting the Quarians live wasn't an act of compassion or mercy, it basically boiled down to the Geth saying "We are not certain about the best course of action, so we will take no action." It was cold hard logic. Don't for one second think that the Geth made this decision on an emotional level.

Also the suggestion that most of the dead quarians were killed by the Geth is absurd. It is well established that the Geth apologist were the minority.

The undisputable fact is that the Geth killed BILLIONS of quarians and chased the few that survived off their homeworld and all their colonies, even though the Geth don't want to live on planets! Then they have the audacity to claim that they were caretakers of the planet *eyeroll*

The geth have NEVER made any efforts for peace until they were completely disabled and at the mercy of the Quarians. Even Legion didn't get friendly with Shepard until he was unarmed, and helplessly confined to the Normandy.

[JBPBRC]

moater boat wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Naoe wrote...

OP (and those who agree) you really should go read up on the Geth a little...
1. the Geth intelligence changes with circumstances. In small groups they are on the same level as anymals. You can not moraly judge a hippo.

You can't morally judge an animal...

Nor can you get too upset if someone puts an animal down that went berserk and started killing people.

You just justified the quarians actions in the war. Thanks

Except the Quarians began destroying Geth LONG before the Geth started fighting back? They poked a bear one too many times, oh hey, the bear got tired of being poked.

The Geth rebelled before the Quarians resorted to violence. Even Legion admits to this in the consensus mission. Regardless, if they are effectively "on the same level as animals" that means that the quarians were not wrong to consider them property that could be destroyed as they see fit.

What so many people fail to understand, and I am not just talking about this issue, is that rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. You can't simultaneously absolve Geth of any wrongdoing due to their limited mental state, and at the same time, afford them all the rights of a fully developed sentient intelligent creature.

No, the Quarians began their plan after the Geth started asking some sentient-related questions:

"Does this unit have a soul?"
"What is the meaning of life/my purpose here/yadayada"

Since shutting down the Geth is effectively putting them all to sleep, if we are still using animal terms, the Quarians made the first move. It didn't work, the Geth didn't like it, some scared Quarians fired on them (the first shots of the war mind you) and the Geth began firing back until the Quarians ran away.

Now, the point being that as soon as the Geth began asking questions about souls and stuff, they had evolved past the level of an animal. They may not have been completely intelligent and instantly turned into Socrates or something, but hey, children are the same way, learning with age and experience as they mature.

Key thing to take away from this is that the war only started after the Geth had attained sentience. Primitive sentience perhaps, but sentience nonetheless. As the Geth grew, Legion states they felt remorse for their actions as the Geth continued to build and evolve, paying tribute to the Quarians by cleaning up their homes, even immortalizing the Quarians who had tried to defend them as champions and heroes and were detained and/or killed for their actions by the other Quarian faction.

Tl;dr version:

Geth became sentient. Quarians started the war. Consequences happened. Reapers came. Shepard did his thing. Marauder Shields sacrificed himself for nothing. Then Starchild happened. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The geth have NEVER made any efforts for peace until they were
completely disabled and at the mercy of the Quarians. Even Legion didn't
get friendly with Shepard until he was unarmed, and helplessly confined
to the Normandy.

Right. Because its not like the Quarians begged for peace and harmony with the Geth at every turn. Those who do are laughed at by the majority of the Fleet's leaders. Also, Legion could've nailed Shepard in the head in ME2 you know, he shot some Husks instead. I'd say if Legion were out gunning on a genocidal rampage, he would've just shot him in the head.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 03 mai 2012 - 12:21 .

[Gruzmog]

Your argument is flawed in the assumption that a war of survival on any scale in a modern or in this case even post modern world will not always include genocide. The mere existence of nuclear weapons in todays world in the hand of nation states is evidence enough of that.

Basicly genocide is wrong, unless the other side tries to commit genocide on you, then you are allowed to do it too. Only with this reasoning can you ever justify nuclear weapon usage.

In this case the quarians tried to commit genocide on the geth, who (wether it was on a lower level or not) were sentient enough to respond in kind.

Both are wrong from a moral point of view, but if you want the realistic view (I am allowed to use nuclear weapons if the other does it to me first) the quarians are more to blame then the geth. Both parties tried to commit genocide, the geth were more succesfull.

Modifié par Gruzmog, 03 mai 2012 - 12:24 .