420 réponses à ce sujet

[Velocithon]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
What?

Joker had to know that if he wouldn't leave, Shepard would come in to rescue him. So, yes, he did take a conscious choice to risk his commander and friend for a destroyed ship.
No, it's on in his character to chicken out and abandon everyone but also don't try to paint him as someone who would stand with Shepard in spite of everything. Joker can be selfish.

What is this I don't even.

edit: Lol top post two pages in a row. 

Modifié par Velocithon, 02 mai 2012 - 12:15 .

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

Joker had to know that if he wouldn't leave, Shepard would come in to rescue him. So, yes, he did take a conscious choice to risk his commander and friend for a destroyed ship.
No, it's on in his character to chicken out and abandon everyone but also don't try to paint him as someone who would stand with Shepard in spite of everything. Joker can be selfish.

Joker didn't think it through. He thought only that he was risking himself. Then Shepard died due to that.
IT'S CALLED A CHARACTER ARC. Joker learned his lesson. Right before you leave for Earth he mentions it again, that he still feels bad over indirectly being responsible for Shepard's death.

Then he abandons Shepard? Whatever.

Sure and people call me arrogant just because I prever one ending over another.

Arrogance? Do you think it gives me satisfaction to feel that the ending was written by someone who didn't give a damn about Mass Effect?
It's a gaming tragedy is what it is.

Because Harbinger as the leader of the Reapers attacking Earth, as extablished by the codex, is fine but, somehow, the Catalyst is unforgivable.

"I control the Reapers, they are my solution."

Harbinger is subordinate to the Catalyst, and how does anything I said give you the idea that I forgive Harbinger?

How you play your game is none of my concern. But don't assume that what you believe to be right or wrong is an absolute truth for every Shepard out there or Mass Effect in general.

The themes are a core part of Mass Effect, and have been for 99% of the trilogy.
You tell me. Why should the final 1% override that.

Modifié par The Angry One, 02 mai 2012 - 12:18 .

[MisterJB]

Velocithon wrote...

If Joker had to flee, it would be because Shepard told him so. Just like in ME2.

Joker: "Shepard! Give me your location!"
Shepard: "Negative! There's no time. Pick up [squadmate 1] and [squadmate 2] from ground and get the hell out of here!"
Joker: "No way I'm not leaving without-"
Shepard: "That's an order, Joker...please."
Joker: "It's been an honor."

TWO plot holes solved right there.

And just introduced another. Joker and the Normandy were helping Sword fight the Reapers. Why would Shepard order Joker to retreat while the rest of the fleets were still fighting knowing that the retreat of the Normandy, the flagship, would demoralize everyone?

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

If Joker had to flee, it would be because Shepard told him so. Just like in ME2.

Joker: "Shepard! Give me your location!"
Shepard: "Negative! There's no time. Pick up [squadmate 1] and [squadmate 2] from ground and get the hell out of here!"
Joker: "No way I'm not leaving without-"
Shepard: "That's an order, Joker...please."
Joker: "It's been an honor."

TWO plot holes solved right there.

And just introduced another. Joker and the Normandy were helping Sword fight the Reapers. Why would Shepard order Joker to retreat while the rest of the fleets were still fighting knowing that the retreat of the Normandy, the flagship, would demoralize everyone?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[incinerator950]

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

If Joker had to flee, it would be because Shepard told him so. Just like in ME2.

Joker: "Shepard! Give me your location!"
Shepard: "Negative! There's no time. Pick up [squadmate 1] and [squadmate 2] from ground and get the hell out of here!"
Joker: "No way I'm not leaving without-"
Shepard: "That's an order, Joker...please."
Joker: "It's been an honor."

TWO plot holes solved right there.

And just introduced another. Joker and the Normandy were helping Sword fight the Reapers. Why would Shepard order Joker to retreat while the rest of the fleets were still fighting knowing that the retreat of the Normandy, the flagship, would demoralize everyone?

And this is why that entire scene is unsalvagable. Any explanation to fill plot holes will inevitably create more plot holes in their place.
The scene needs to be taken into the barn and shot.

[KingNothing125]

I still have all my fingers and toes and eyes crossed, hoping that "clarification" was vague execu-speak for "we F'd everything up and are redoing the whole thing."

Yes I expect to be crushed, don't trample on my dreams!

[Elric70]

I think you all need to go see The Avengers, so that you can have a fun filled and exciting ending! Don't forget to stay past the first set of credits to see the cameo for another villain.

Regarding the EC, I do not think it will bring the ending or the closure I was looking for, but it will only reinforce my lack of desire to get any additional DLC after the fact. I will still get as much play out of multiplayer as I can though since they enticed me to buy xbox live gold for the first time ever, but I doubt I will really want to import any more characters.

[Muhkida]

I'm telling you guys, EDI forced Joker to flee at the risk of death by snu-snu.

[Velocithon]

MisterJB wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

If Joker had to flee, it would be because Shepard told him so. Just like in ME2.

Joker: "Shepard! Give me your location!"
Shepard: "Negative! There's no time. Pick up [squadmate 1] and [squadmate 2] from ground and get the hell out of here!"
Joker: "No way I'm not leaving without-"
Shepard: "That's an order, Joker...please."
Joker: "It's been an honor."

TWO plot holes solved right there.

And just introduced another. Joker and the Normandy were helping Sword fight the Reapers. Why would Shepard order Joker to retreat while the rest of the fleets were still fighting knowing that the retreat of the Normandy, the flagship, would demoralize everyone?

Demoralize? How?

How is leaving to try and save the Commander who just ended the damn war demoralizing? I'm sure Sword would be like "DUDE GO SAVE HER!!!"

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...

I've said all 3 endings follow intolerant Reaper philosophy in their own ways, and they do.
This is why I detest all of them, destroy is merely the lesser of 3 evils.

"Reaper philosophy?" The Crucible isn't a Reaper device. If it was, they'd have built it and enacted Synthesis themselves long ago since they like it so much.

The Angry One wrote... 
However, destroy at least keeps organics distinct, with the promise of distinct synthetics in the future. Synthesis mashes them together for the rest of time. No difference. No change. Homogenisation.

Being the same on one axis != homogenisation.

You and I are (presumably) both humans. Are we homogenous?

The Angry One wrote... 
See above.

I still don't see how any of the options constitutes defiance.

The Angry One wrote... 
This was not a fight to survive for survival's sake. This was supposed to be a fight to preserve what we knew and loved against the Reapers.

Which is why I didn't pick Destroy, because I know and love the Geth.
But they live in the other two endings.

[The Angry One]

Muhkida wrote...

I'm telling you guys, EDI forced Joker to flee at the risk of death by snu-snu.

Where was Javik to force Joker to turn back at the risk of death by airlock then?

Oh Javik, why you fail me bro?

[MisterJB]

Velocithon wrote...
Demoralize? How?

How is leaving to try and save the Commander who just ended the damn war demoralizing? I'm sure Sword would be like "DUDE GO SAVE HER!!!"

Because Joker did not enter Earth's orbit to help Shepard.
He left the Sol system, abandoned the final battle, hauled his ass through the Charon Relay as fast as he could.

[Devil Mingy]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

If Joker had to flee, it would be because Shepard told him so. Just like in ME2.

Joker: "Shepard! Give me your location!"
Shepard: "Negative! There's no time. Pick up [squadmate 1] and [squadmate 2] from ground and get the hell out of here!"
Joker: "No way I'm not leaving without-"
Shepard: "That's an order, Joker...please."
Joker: "It's been an honor."

TWO plot holes solved right there.

And just introduced another. Joker and the Normandy were helping Sword fight the Reapers. Why would Shepard order Joker to retreat while the rest of the fleets were still fighting knowing that the retreat of the Normandy, the flagship, would demoralize everyone?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Did you ever get the feeling that we've put more thought into that scene than the writers did? And I'm talking about just in this topic alone.

I'm glad they're doing this Extended Cut. I do not mean to sound ungrateful towards Bioware for their hard work. However, I really have to question how they thought people wouldn't want to know why the Normandy was leaving. This really should've been in the game in the first place. In fact, all of this clarity and closure should've been in the game in the first place. Gamble, you promised us that ME3 wouldn't pull a LOST. You promised us that after the game was done. What happened?

Modifié par Devil Mingy, 02 mai 2012 - 12:26 .

[incinerator950]

Muhkida wrote...

I'm telling you guys, EDI forced Joker to flee at the risk of death by snu-snu.

[The Angry One]

Optimystic_X wrote...

"Reaper philosophy?" The Crucible isn't a Reaper device.

Debatable. The only logical origin for the Crucible is the Reapers themselves, the Catalyst or those who created it.

If it was, they'd have built it and enacted Synthesis themselves long ago since they like it so much.

The Catalyst's logic is already beyond bizarre. So who knows.

Being the same on one axis != homogenisation.

You and I are (presumably) both humans. Are we homogenous?

No, and we're disagreeing. The Catalyst seems to think that synthesis will end all disagreement and conflict. It has to, or the cycle (according to it) would still continue.

I still don't see how any of the options constitutes defiance.

You do what the Catalyst says, but at least with destroy you're not achieving the Reaper's philosophical goal.

Which is why I didn't pick Destroy, because I know and love the Geth.
But they live in the other two endings.

And society collapses either way. That is always lost. In any ending.

[Muhkida]

The Angry One wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

I'm telling you guys, EDI forced Joker to flee at the risk of death by snu-snu.

Where was Javik to force Joker to turn back at the risk of death by airlock then?

Oh Javik, why you fail me bro?

I could imagine Javik being the kind of person who runs a harem in a Giligan's planet situation.

[The Angry One]

Devil Mingy wrote...

Gamble, you promised us that ME3 wouldn't pull a LOST. You promised us that after the game was done. What happened?

Perhaps he only saw the ending right after he said that?

[DarthSyphilis59]

irishScott3 wrote...

Translation: ZOMG let's build hype again! Gaming media building hype!

Sorry Bioware, not this time.

+1

[The Angry One]

Muhkida wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

I'm telling you guys, EDI forced Joker to flee at the risk of death by snu-snu.

Where was Javik to force Joker to turn back at the risk of death by airlock then?

Oh Javik, why you fail me bro?

I could imagine Javik being the kind of person who runs a harem in a Giligan's planet situation.

I think it's more likely he'd try to insert various rocks into Joker's orifices for marooning him on the planet and denying him his chance to see the Reapers destroyed.

[Devil Mingy]

The Angry One wrote...

Devil Mingy wrote...

Gamble, you promised us that ME3 wouldn't pull a LOST. You promised us that after the game was done. What happened?

Perhaps he only saw the ending right after he said that?

I am truly hoping that is true. If he actually thought the ending we got answered more questions than it raised... yikes.

Modifié par Devil Mingy, 02 mai 2012 - 12:31 .

[Mcfly616]

Optimystic_X.....you can clearly see that you're on your own this thread. Your points are more like biased opinions. Opinions that show your obvious satisfaction with the current ending.

Maybe you should just abandon your lost cause, because you're not going to change the majority of fans minds that the ending didn't blow donkey balls....

Thats right....the majority.....

Your attempts are just getting more Troll-like with every post.....you stand alone

[Stygian1]

How did this thread turn into four pages of bickering about the ending, that lead absolutely nowhere and all the parties involved still think they are right?

Oh right we're on the internet...

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
The themes are a core part of Mass Effect, and have been for 99% of the trilogy.
You tell me. Why should the final 1% override that.

You are still assuming that the way you play or interpret Mass Effect is the correct one.
If you save the Destiny Ascension, humanity joins the three Council races in opressing the lesser species (before they screw humanity over in ME2). Strenght through diversity.
However, you can let the Council die and extablish a new one under the control of humans (before that if retconned in ME3). In which, the story gives the message that the only way to keep the peace is through a strong but benevolent hand that belongs to a single species.
And how many times in ME3 can Shepard foll or outright extinct entire races to help Earth?
You interpret Mass Effect in a certain way and that's fine. Pick Destroy, I hope it is expanded.
But don't try to take options away from others who don't see the story in the same light you do.

[Taboo]

Optimystic still hasn't answered my question about a post he made.

At what point did you think that if people didn't like having their DNA synthesized they could have it reversed?

LOLWUT?