132 réponses à ce sujet

[JGDD]

Combat Integrity. Artistic Integrity's twin.

They both do wtfever they want to and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Ashilana]

C9316 wrote...

Because we all want to kill ourselves after ME3's ending.

+1

[marshalleck]

DiebytheSword wrote...

I can think of no less defensible place in Condor than the L shaped pipe.  So why then, do I need to invariably go rescue someone from it, get trapped there myself, and find the whole team down there in gold?

Because some people are born to be cannon fodder, and require strong leadership in order to function sensibly.

[Drawrof]

I kind of like it one silver. Some fool always goes to the mining camp and is usually joined by another. Me an fourth hold upper ridge. By 4th wave the fools in mine cower behind cover and act like perfect decoys. Me cans my saber and my partner's widow make quick of spawning hordes. By 7th wave all join us on upper ridge. Probably they checked score or watched through spectator how those up top were dominating, while those in mining pit of dispair were sucking.

[Koshiir]

I don't understand why some people say you don't have cover on the top area. The whole place has cover around it and exactly two main entry points and two ladders.

You have the boxes in the middle, you can easily fall back to the highest level where you have even higher cover walls and another box to sit behind.

I found that the perfect strategy is to bunker up on top and have two people (on the highest level) watch the downward slope on the side of the map and two people (on the level just below) the main approach (between the Makos). If one path doesn't have a lot of enemies one person can support the other team.

On waves where there are 4 things to deactivate, it pays off to have someone sit up there the whole time to prevent enemies spawning there.


Also, I don't understand why people would deliberately sit BELOW their enemies (in the L-shaped thing). If I know one thing about ground warfare it's that height advantage is really important.

Modifié par Koshiir, 02 mai 2012 - 12:04 .

[DiebytheSword]

SilentCO1 wrote...

I've only win on the map at the bottom L. Doesn't work against reapers though. Up top you get overrun even more easily and there's little cover.

Yes, clearly that's been everyone else's experience.  Explain why the bottom L is better than anywhere else on the map.

You have no less than five approaches to cover with four people, and roaming with gold requires that all four be good players, which we all know don't always populate gold games.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 02 mai 2012 - 12:05 .

[Koshiir]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Yes, clearly that's been everyone elses experience.  Explain why the bottom L is better than anywhere else on the map.

You have no less than five approaches to cover with four people, and roaming with gold requires that all four be good players, which we all know don't always populate gold games.

Funnily, the only time I had a team that tried to bunker down in the L on Gold we got wiped on wave 4.

[D4rk50ul808]

Unless war strategies that have been the same forever changed, ye with the high ground rules the battlefield.

[DiebytheSword]

Koshiir wrote...

Also, I don't understand why people would deliberately sit BELOW their enemies (in the L-shaped thing). If I know one thing about ground warfare it's that height advantage is really important.

This.  So much this.

I even quizzed my wife on it (who is no fan of war) to make sure that its common knowledge that the high ground is the good ground.

My pacifist wife understands that you do not voluntarily ceede the high ground to the enemy, and yet every time that map loads I curse under my breath knowing full well that this battle will likely end in that damned L.

[NobodyofConsequence]

Actually, decoy can work really well in the L shape, as I've found doing hack objectives. I can imagine an Engineerathon (All 4 classes) wreaking havoc around there. However, I can also imagine the same group, or a bioticfest, doing even better in the area toward the top of the hill everyone else is talking about.

I always, always head to the top, just as I always, always head to the blue (control?) room in Hydra. Around 1 in 5 games, someone will come with, around 1 in 10 the whole team heads straight there. Those are the games where I know we'll at least make wave 10. But as someone else said here earlier, sometimes it's just more sense to stick with the team, depending on your loadout and enemy type.

But yeah, the L shape vs reapers in particular... *shudder*

[Shampoohorn]

I played one silver game where the rest of the team hugged the pipe for 5 rounds. Total mayhem, and not the good kind.

---

The best place to begin a wave is the hill road right above the pipe.
2 people near the tall rocks have good views across and down.
One team member watches the choke point at the very top facing the LZ.
The fourth can either be up top or float near the pipe drawing mobs into the line of fire from the group on top of the hill.

One key feature of this hillside is that mobs can only close on you from two sides: The LZ/hilltop or the pipe. BUT, you can jump down the side of the hill toward the center of the map. This is a very helpful escape valve if things get hot.

The most effective teams I've played with start on the hill and then end up ranging around.

---

Has anyone noticed that all the 'cover' barriers above the LZ let bullets through? Not a good place to camp out!

---

Are there any maps of the MP levels? That would be a good thing to have access too. Like I think the pipe is actually called "The Bunker". The name comes up whenever you walk through the area.

[Kenshen]

Why is it I never get to group with you people. I always seem to be the only one who starts at the top on the hill. Also I find it odd that people complain about no ammo boxes up there yet most of us by now have max ammo packs. Is it really that hard to press the 8 key (or whatever it is on the xbox & ps3). That L pipe spot does get my vote for worst hack location to date.

[DiebytheSword]

Shampoohorn wrote...

I played one silver game where the rest of the team hugged the pipe for 5 rounds. Total mayhem, and not the good kind.

---

The best place to begin a wave is the hill road right above the pipe.
2 people near the tall rocks have good views across and down.
One team member watches the choke point at the very top facing the LZ.
The fourth can either be up top or float near the pipe drawing mobs into the line of fire from the group on top of the hill.

One key feature of this hillside is that mobs can only close on you from two sides: The LZ/hilltop or the pipe. BUT, you can jump down the side of the hill toward the center of the map. This is a very helpful escape valve if things get hot.

The most effective teams I've played with start on the hill and then end up ranging around.

---

Has anyone noticed that all the 'cover' barriers above the LZ let bullets through? Not a good place to camp out!

---

Are there any maps of the MP levels? That would be a good thing to have access too. Like I think the pipe is actually called "The Bunker". The name comes up whenever you walk through the area.

That is how I prefer to play the hill, especially as an infiltrator.

As for the maps, thats a stellar idea, and should be done at some point to write strategy guides for these MP maps.  I don't care how people play in terms of class/loadout, but they have to be tactically sound.

[Koshiir]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Koshiir wrote...

Also, I don't understand why people would deliberately sit BELOW their enemies (in the L-shaped thing). If I know one thing about ground warfare it's that height advantage is really important.

This.  So much this.

I even quizzed my wife on it (who is no fan of war) to make sure that its common knowledge that the high ground is the good ground.

My pacifist wife understands that you do not voluntarily ceede the high ground to the enemy, and yet every time that map loads I curse under my breath knowing full well that this battle will likely end in that damned L.

I just stay up there, no matter what my team does. I can hold that position pretty well myself and prevent enemies spawning there or on the middle ground area.

One more thing that annoys me: Even IF people return there after each wave, some people can't wait to meet the enemy and run off to look for the enemies on the lower levels. They die down there, some other fool runs down there and tries to revive them. 30 seconds later and I'm last man standing.

Shampoohorn wrote...
Has anyone noticed that all the 'cover' barriers above the LZ let bullets through? Not a good place to camp out!

I think that's because they have these small vertical slots in between them where they are not connected. If you cower in front of a slot, the enemy can hit you. If you sit behind metal (or whatever that is) you're good.

Modifié par Koshiir, 02 mai 2012 - 12:21 .

[Dookie no jutsu]

DiebytheSword wrote...

I can think of no less defensible place in Condor than the L shaped pipe.  So why then, do I need to invariably go rescue someone from it, get trapped there myself, and find the whole team down there in gold?

For that matter, why is the tactically excellent top never used?  I don't buy the nonsense about ammo boxes not being available, everyone can hit the one on the side of the ramp or by the Mako and make it back to the top before the next wave.

I also see the middle bunker being used, which has no less than three entry points to a small area and is a great way to get spanked from behind facing either direction.

On that note I question Turian bunker pre-fab manufacturers.


So help me understand, why do we never use the excellent top, nearly always use the questionable middle (wide spread, mind you) and invariably go to the L pipe to die?

Because

[Drawrof]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Are there any maps of the MP levels? That would be a good thing to have access too. Like I think the pipe is actually called "The Bunker". The name comes up whenever you walk through the area.

Actually the pipes are called the mining camp. The bunker is the central building. I don't know of any map though. 

[Cazlee]

Two of condor's spawn points are right near that area. You can stay in the L-pipe without disrupting them. They spawn there almost 100% of the time.

[stribies]

BoomDynamite wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Because we all want to kill ourselves after ME3's ending.

I enjoyed it.

You enjoyed trying to kill yourself?

[capn233]

It's the best place on the map. Not only do you have awkward cover, but the enemy can approach from several elevated positions on the map to negate it. It adds to the challenge of the map.

But seriously, you are right. Nobody wants to hold the hill top. Hell I can't get random people do do anything logical on any maps so why should I expect them to do it there?

[Karstedt]

Because we have a deathwish. I like it when we defend the middle lane too. It's a great place to get surrounded, not just cornered. Being able to go from cover to cover and always have someone draw a bead on you is nothing if not thrilling.

[FFLB]

The pipe almost always seems to work in the games that I've played on there, even if no one's on the hill. I've found the hill to be a less than optimal position, even though it's high ground. It may be an optimal position for a team of snipers, but for the player who prefers mid to close range weapons, the pipe allows them to use their weapons and abilities more effectively.

[Cundu_Ertur]

"My pacifist wife understands that you do not voluntarily ceede the high ground to the enemy"
Usually.
Sometimes you do let the enemy have the high ground. But that's IRL, and not important to this discussion. I've always thought that was the most natural point to defend, too, but there's not a lot of good cover there. The pipes have a couple of decent cover points, and one good one. Silver can be won there. Haven't done Gold, though. Problematic.

[Shampoohorn]

Drawrof wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...

Are there any maps of the MP levels? That would be a good thing to have access too. Like I think the pipe is actually called "The Bunker". The name comes up whenever you walk through the area.

Actually the pipes are called the mining camp. The bunker is the central building. I don't know of any map though. 

Right!  The Mining Camp.

At least for the 6 original maps, it could be as easy at opening a save from the single player game, pressing M and screenshotting.

Has anyone tried pressing M in an MP game?  In not at home atm otherwise I'd try it myself.

[Shampoohorn]

Koshiir wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...
Has anyone noticed that all the 'cover' barriers above the LZ let bullets through? Not a good place to camp out!

I think that's because they have these small vertical slots in between them where they are not connected. If you cower in front of a slot, the enemy can hit you. If you sit behind metal (or whatever that is) you're good.

In my last game there I was covering right behind the metal to recharge my shields.  N mobs seemed to have an angle on me through the slots. Two things happened. 
-- I could see bullet effects through the metal as they were hitting it.
-- I died.

In contrast, BW decided to put lots of horizontal slots in the cover on Hydra. 

[NobodyofConsequence]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

"My pacifist wife understands that you do not voluntarily ceede the high ground to the enemy"
Usually.
Sometimes you do let the enemy have the high ground. But that's IRL, and not important to this discussion. I've always thought that was the most natural point to defend, too, but there's not a lot of good cover there. The pipes have a couple of decent cover points, and one good one. Silver can be won there. Haven't done Gold, though. Problematic.

Reverse slope defence?