216 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

[Sisterofshane]

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

[Eterna]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

[Sisterofshane]

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

So every Synthetic that has ever existed has attempted to kill an organic?

[Eterna]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

So every Synthetic that has ever existed has attempted to kill an organic?

 No, but it would eventually come to a point when a synthetic would be created that's too advanced for organics to control.
 
 The Geth were just a small example of things to come. 

[TreguardD]

Just to take the OP's point one step further...

The Geth would never have attacked Eden Prime without a Reaper showing them that they could attack Organics!

[Eterna]

TreguardD wrote...

Just to take the OP's point one step further...

The Geth would never have attacked Eden Prime without a Reaper showing them that they could attack Organics!

Irrelevant, the geth were a threat before that. The reapers simply used them to further thier goals. 

[TreguardD]

Eterna5 wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

Just to take the OP's point one step further...

The Geth would never have attacked Eden Prime without a Reaper showing them that they could attack Organics!

Irrelevant, the geth were a threat before that. The reapers simply used them to further thier goals. 

If it is irreleant. Why were they a threat?

Do you believe that unit does not have a soul?

[TreguardD]

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

So every Synthetic that has ever existed has attempted to kill an organic?

 No, but it would eventually come to a point when a synthetic would be created that's too advanced for organics to control.
 
 The Geth were just a small example of things to come. 

Why are synthetic children different than biolgical children?

Maybe if we don't try to murder our creations, they'll stop trying to kill us.

[Eterna]

TreguardD wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

So every Synthetic that has ever existed has attempted to kill an organic?

 No, but it would eventually come to a point when a synthetic would be created that's too advanced for organics to control.
 
 The Geth were just a small example of things to come. 

Why are synthetic children different than biolgical children?

Maybe if we don't try to murder our creations, they'll stop trying to kill us.

 Synthetics can't have children. 

[Soultaker08]

Didnt Javik explain that Synthetics will always come to the conclusion that their parents are weak, dangerous and useless? (weakness of flesh)

@ OP: Judging Starbrat by refering to the last 2 cycles while there are maybe 1000 of cycles passed is like judging democracy by the last government elected :
"Everything they did was wrong , authocracy is bettter!"

[Sisterofshane]

Eterna5 wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How was the catalyst wrong? He said that synthetic life would rebel against their creators, he was right.

And biological children will rebel against their parents.  I guess we should feel justified in burning our houses down with ourselves and our children inside of it to prevent them from inevitably killing us.

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

So every Synthetic that has ever existed has attempted to kill an organic?

 No, but it would eventually come to a point when a synthetic would be created that's too advanced for organics to control.
 
 The Geth were just a small example of things to come. 

Why are synthetic children different than biolgical children?

Maybe if we don't try to murder our creations, they'll stop trying to kill us.

 Synthetics can't have children. 

The only way the Catalyst logic would ever be proven is one of two ways : to let the Singularity happen, or to prove without a doubt that every single synthetic that was ever created had at least attempted to completely destroy organic life.  If even one Robot decided to protect organics (*AHEM*, EDI), then the Catalyst's notion of Singularity was False.  The Created may instinctively rebel against their creators, but the result doesn't have to be violent.

So, you basically picked your ending over a personal fear you have of machines.  Good for you.

[TreguardD]

[quote]Eterna5 wrote...


[snipping the quote tree!]

Biological children usually don't try to murder their parents. 

[/quote]

So every Synthetic that has ever existed has attempted to kill an organic?

[/quote]

 No, but it would eventually come to a point when a synthetic would be created that's too advanced for organics to control.
 
 The Geth were just a small example of things to come. 

[/quote]

Why are synthetic children different than biolgical children?

Maybe if we don't try to murder our creations, they'll stop trying to kill us.

[/quote]

 Synthetics can't have children. 

[/quote]

The only way the Catalyst logic would ever be proven is one of two ways : to let the Singularity happen, or to prove without a doubt that every single synthetic that was ever created had at least attempted to completely destroy organic life.  If even one Robot decided to protect organics (*AHEM*, EDI), then the Catalyst's notion of Singularity was False.  The Created may instinctively rebel against their creators, but the result doesn't have to be violent.

So, you basically picked your ending over a personal fear you have of machines.  Good for you.

[/quote]

Dude. He's trolling. He knows I meant "the Synthetic Creations of Organics" -> "Our Synthetic Children"

My point is simply "Nice Job Breaking It, Herod"

[wicked_being]

The Angry One wrote...

It gets worse, the Zha'till who the Protheans were fighting weren't even synthetics, they were hybrids.
Knowing the Protheans, they probably started the war.

The Reapers were the ones who forced the AIs to overtake their hosts, turning the Zha'till into monsters.

Just think about this for a second. Not only is Javik - the only major character to carry the theme of organics vs. synthetics in all of ME3 - a DLC character not part of the main game, almost every revelation of his subverts the Catalyst's claims completely.

Now that I think about it, the ending would've been a bigger WTF moment if I didn't have From Ashes.

[ArchDuck]

Sisterofshane wrote...

The only way the Catalyst logic would ever be proven is one of two ways : to let the Singularity happen, or to prove without a doubt that every single synthetic that was ever created had at least attempted to completely destroy organic life.  If even one Robot decided to protect organics (*AHEM*, EDI), then the Catalyst's notion of Singularity was False.  The Created may instinctively rebel against their creators, but the result doesn't have to be violent.

So, you basically picked your ending over a personal fear you have of machines.  Good for you.

+1

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

TreguardD wrote...

Just to take the OP's point one step further...

The Geth would never have attacked Eden Prime without a Reaper showing them that they could attack Organics!

Irrelevant, the geth were a threat before that. The reapers simply used them to further thier goals. 

The Geth lived peacefully, if defensively, in the Perseus Veil for 300 years. Some decided to leave the larger consensus and attack organics.

Why?

Oh right, that was Sovereign's doing. Its arrival caused some of the Geth to separate. So, the only example we have in this cycle of synthetics actively making war against organics was the Reaper's doing. 

The Protheans essentially losing the Metacon War? The Reapers doing.

The Zha becoming monstrous hybrids that attacked the Protheans? The Reaper's doing, again. 

The Geth nearly wiping out the Quarians before Shepard intervened? Guess who?

Every major conflict we've heard about in any detail had the Reapers as a root cause. Funny that. They've essentially caused what they've tried to prevent multiple times. 

Can you provide any other examples of synthetics launching a genocidal campaign against all organic life on their own? 


Actually, don't bother, because you can't. The narrative shift at the end of the plot is completely unsupported by what comes before. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 02 mai 2012 - 04:13 .

[The Angry One]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can you provide any other examples of synthetics launching a genocidal campaign against all organic life on their own? 

Asked this many times myself.
The best people could come up with was the Luna VI and the AI on the Citadel, both from ME1.

This ignores that both were reactionally and killed essentially because they panicked, the Citadel AI's only stated goal was to transfer itself to a ship and flee to Geth space, and neither came close to mounting a genocidal campaign, or even saying they wanted to.

[FlyinElk212]

At first I read this, thought it said, "The Retcon War", and thought it was referring to how BSN members were turning the tide on the ending.

[CrutchCricket]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

At first I read this, thought it said, "The Retcon War", and thought it was referring to how BSN members were turning the tide on the ending.

Not bloody likely. Their "artistic integrity" is too strong.

A man can dream though. A man can dream...

[incinerator950]

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can you provide any other examples of synthetics launching a genocidal campaign against all organic life on their own? 

Asked this many times myself.
The best people could come up with was the Luna VI and the AI on the Citadel, both from ME1.

This ignores that both were reactionally and killed essentially because they panicked, the Citadel AI's only stated goal was to transfer itself to a ship and flee to Geth space, and neither came close to mounting a genocidal campaign, or even saying they wanted to.

Yes, but their reaction was to inflict harm.  They were defending themselves, but one took out the Marine compliment on Luna, and the other would have detonated a bomb that would have took out that plaza, and probably more. 

[The Night Mammoth]

incinerator950 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can you provide any other examples of synthetics launching a genocidal campaign against all organic life on their own? 

Asked this many times myself.
The best people could come up with was the Luna VI and the AI on the Citadel, both from ME1.

This ignores that both were reactionally and killed essentially because they panicked, the Citadel AI's only stated goal was to transfer itself to a ship and flee to Geth space, and neither came close to mounting a genocidal campaign, or even saying they wanted to.

Yes, but their reaction was to inflict harm.  They were defending themselves, but one took out the Marine compliment on Luna, and the other would have detonated a bomb that would have took out that plaza, and probably more. 

Yes, because they were faced with death. You're ignoring why.

I don't understand. It's the same knee-jerk reaction we've seen a hundred times and more from organics, often worse and for completely deplorable reasons. How is this situation so unique other than the fact it was a synthetic being? 

Do me a favor. Talk to EDI when you're in Cronos Station, listen to what she says about her origins. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 02 mai 2012 - 04:26 .

[The Angry One]

incinerator950 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can you provide any other examples of synthetics launching a genocidal campaign against all organic life on their own? 

Asked this many times myself.
The best people could come up with was the Luna VI and the AI on the Citadel, both from ME1.

This ignores that both were reactionally and killed essentially because they panicked, the Citadel AI's only stated goal was to transfer itself to a ship and flee to Geth space, and neither came close to mounting a genocidal campaign, or even saying they wanted to.

Yes, but their reaction was to inflict harm.  They were defending themselves, but one took out the Marine compliment on Luna, and the other would have detonated a bomb that would have took out that plaza, and probably more. 

That says nothing. The argument is not "AIs will never kill people".
The argument is not even "AIs will never dominate organics". Because the Catalyst's only logic is that synthetics will destroy all organic life. Which has never happened and never even come close to happening, and the only times when AIs have had the position and will to even contemplate doing this in Mass Effect has been directly because of the Reapers.

[lordnyx1]

incinerator950 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can you provide any other examples of synthetics launching a genocidal campaign against all organic life on their own? 

Asked this many times myself.
The best people could come up with was the Luna VI and the AI on the Citadel, both from ME1.

This ignores that both were reactionally and killed essentially because they panicked, the Citadel AI's only stated goal was to transfer itself to a ship and flee to Geth space, and neither came close to mounting a genocidal campaign, or even saying they wanted to.

Yes, but their reaction was to inflict harm.  They were defending themselves, but one took out the Marine compliment on Luna, and the other would have detonated a bomb that would have took out that plaza, and probably more. 

it wasn't a bomb it was several comptoments that would make a boom which while would likely kill shepard and squad(probably) wouldn't have even scorched the keeper a few rooms over and it did that because its creator's creator shut off its creator(guess what that ai was a child of an ai!) and it knew of the council laws that said ai were dangerous and must not be created/must be destroyed.

[justlogme]

cerberus1701 wrote...

2484Stryker wrote...

When you go to a hospital, they will irradiate your entire body and kills off all mature healthy cells because cancer cells could always develop and kill off all your cells.

Thay stopped basically bathing people in radiation like that years ago. The statement is flase, and it's not applicable here in any event.

   You totally have no idea what he is talking about do you?

[Pride Demon]

The Angry One wrote...

It gets worse, the Zha'till who the Protheans were fighting weren't even synthetics, they were hybrids.
Knowing the Protheans, they probably started the war.

The Reapers were the ones who forced the AIs to overtake their hosts, turning the Zha'till into monsters.

Just think about this for a second. Not only is Javik - the only major character to carry the theme of organics vs. synthetics in all of ME3 - a DLC character not part of the main game, almost every revelation of his subverts the Catalyst's claims completely.

I read this a lot but... Am I the only one that thinks the "metacon" and the zha'til were different races and their wars happened at different times?
Javik says that they encountered the problem of machine intelligence "early" with the metacon war and that preventing the machines from surpassing them was one of the reasons the prothean empire was formed: to have unified galaxy (under prothean rule) to throw at the "metacon"... And by the time the reapers arrived they were turning the tide...

The zha'til, however, revolted only after the reaper's arrival (very likely prompted by the reapers themselves), so I wouldn't call that an "early" encounter...

I may be wrong, but I always felt the "metacon" was the prothean version of the geth, the zha'til is the zha version of the geth...