118 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

So not going to one of the alignment extremes gives you a worse ending? The ME2 persuasion system sucked as it was; you really want to base the endings on that?

The Renegade ending in ME1 was silly. I forgave Bio for it since they retconned it out of existence.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 mai 2012 - 04:27 .

[bennyjammin79]

AlanC9 wrote...

So not going to one of the alignment extremes gives you a worse ending? The ME2 persuasion system sucked as it was; you really want to base the endings on that?

The Renegade ending in ME1 was silly. I forgave Bio for it since they retconned it out of existence.

[Icinix]

They did, the story leak had a lot of outcry about the ending.

Fans who didn't read the leak told the people who did to get over it, and some comments were made on Twitter and Facebook to people talking about blue babies etc along the lines of "Thanks for having faith in us our true fans etc."

They said the leak was changed, but the only thing that changed was the Guardians / Catalyst name.

As for how this ending slipped past focus groups etc - it was probably so late in development that there was no real time for focus groups or peer review, and by the time people were asking questions they were too committed and there was no time to change it.

[Binary_Helix 1]

AlanC9 wrote...

So not going to one of the alignment extremes gives you a worse ending? The ME2 persuasion system sucked as it was; you really want to base the endings on that?

The Renegade ending in ME1 was silly. I forgave Bio for it since they retconned it out of existence.

Choices should have consequences. Lots of players are unhappy that they did pure or nearly pure paragon/renegade play throughs for little to no benefit. The least there could have been were stat bonuses.

Since you'e so forgiving why not overlook ALL of the ME3's flaws because basically none of the previous choices matter.

[AlanC9]

So if I don't choose to follow Bio's alignment scheme, the whole galaxy gets punished?

Congratulations. You've actually come up with a way to make the ending worse than it already is.

As for overlooking flaws -- yep, you've got me. I've been playing Bio games long enough to know that they're not really into doing long-term consequences. Short-term, sure -- just nothing that makes them design alternate gameplay sequences.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

AlanC9 wrote...

So if I don't choose to follow Bio's alignment scheme, the whole galaxy gets punished?

Congratulations. You've actually come up with a way to make the ending worse than it already is.

Alignment based endings aren't the end of the world. They're pretty much how most Bioware games end. Stop being so melodramatic. With the stakes as high as they were (final game in trilogy) they needed to stick with their forumla for success.

[CARL_DF90]

Simple OP: EA blindfolded them with B.S. and tied their hands with more B.S. Okay, maybe that's over simplifying things but you should get the idea. The only other alternative is that Bioware has become so out of touch and self-deluded that they can't see straight anymore. I sure hope not but the false advertising during lead up for ME3 makes me wonder just what the heck those people are thinking.

[DaJe]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I still dont get where people say "rushed" and now "annual release".

ME3 had the exact same amount of dev time as ME2 did, and it DIDN'T have to do a whole gameplay overhaul either.

The story wasn't unfinished in the least, the ending was just sub par. Up UNTIL the ending I thought the story was very well done and while I do wish there was MORE. I'm not complaining either.

ME3 had the gigantic task to properly tie up everything in a satisfying and epic ending. The last chapter should have been the best one in the series to make you forget all flaws and shortcommings on the way (the way ME1 did).

Instead the last chapter was one of the weakest in the series and the weakest in ME3. The gameplay was extremely bland and imagination less.

You get to see nothing of Earth other than grey rubble. Where are the recognizable landmarks?

Things that should have been explained are left out. You don't see your war assets in action as probably everyone expected.

There are annoying bugs like Wrex giving the lines of his speech to the Krogan at the same time as his lines to Shepard.

The writing is much worse than in the previous chapters of the same game. It feels like it was unchecked and rushed.

There is so much nonsense right down to the final Reaper fight. Really? The destroyer shoots his red laser ANYWHERE but on the two trucks with giant rockets? Not even after one truck fires at him!? He shoots left and right of the two large stationary targets in the middle of the street that are the only threat to the Reaper for minutes.
Who came up with that? Why bother fighting the Reapers when they are so incompetent that they probably kill them selfs by tripping over? Was this checked and sanctioned by the same people who designed Tuchanka? I don't think so.

It feels half assed and instead of giving the ending the most attention, it got the least.

It's just like the Tali reveal. Many were concerned how they could possibly do that without upsetting their fan base....and they did it in the most offensive, cheap, lazy, immersion breaking way possible, when there was actually the perfect moment right on Rannoch. It looks like an afterthought, like noone gave a **** to begin with.

BW (mainly the people responsible for the GOOD parts) should have fought for more time to end their story the way it deserves. Now it will forever be rememberd as controversy.

[AkiKishi]

Short term gain vs long term gain. Probably no accident that ME3 was released just before EA's quarterly report. Not that it did much good.

[Robhuzz]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I still dont get where people say "rushed" and now "annual release".

ME3 had the exact same amount of dev time as ME2 did, and it DIDN'T have to do a whole gameplay overhaul either.

The story wasn't unfinished in the least, the ending was just sub par. Up UNTIL the ending I thought the story was very well done and while I do wish there was MORE. I'm not complaining either.

Where people got the "rushed" idea from? 

Let's see...

-Auto dialogue
-Boring fetch quests actually form the majority of the game
-Side missions reused for multiplayer maps
-Laziness especially when it comes to romance scenes and non romance scenes not changing at all even if the  character was romanced (Liara citadel talk springs to mind)

-And obviously... the ending


And of course BioWare foresaw the backlash. You have to be incredibly stupid or just plainly ignore everything around you to not see the fans wouldn't like getting lied to and getting such a heap of garbage as an ending. The true question for BioWare was: Knowing there will be a lot of backlash, what will we do now?

BioWare's answer: Hide behind PR and artistic integrity until it all goes away.<_<

Modifié par Robhuzz, 02 mai 2012 - 08:56 .

[AkiKishi]

Not sure you can include autodialogue, that's more of a design choice. But plenty of signs of corner cutting in ME3.

[ringdrossel]

The truth is: The higher ups just didn't care. It sold well and it had high ratings. Who is interested in just a few thousand loyal fans if you can win millions of the COD kiddies over? Who needs a brain if you have red,green and blue? We are listing... we just don't care at all.

That being said I believe that most certainly some of the Bioware devs / authors saw this coming and cringed at the thought of producing such an end. But they probably just didn't have the leverage needed to change anything about it.

[Robhuzz]

ringdrossel wrote...

The truth is: The higher ups just didn't care. It sold well and it had high ratings. Who is interested in just a few thousand loyal fans if you can win millions of the COD kiddies over? Who needs a brain if you have red,green and blue? We are listing... we just don't care at all.

That being said I believe that most certainly some of the Bioware devs / authors saw this coming and cringed at the thought of producing such an end. But they probably just didn't have the leverage needed to change anything about it.

Time will tell how the devs really felt. I can't speak for others but I most certainly wouldn't want to work for a company doing this. I would simply quit and find a job elsewhere away from EA and their budget cutting, dev time shorterning policies. Plenty of independent indie studios being founded. They could always use more experienced writers, programmers and others.

[Cainne Chapel]

Robhuzz wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I still dont get where people say "rushed" and now "annual release".

ME3 had the exact same amount of dev time as ME2 did, and it DIDN'T have to do a whole gameplay overhaul either.

The story wasn't unfinished in the least, the ending was just sub par. Up UNTIL the ending I thought the story was very well done and while I do wish there was MORE. I'm not complaining either.

Where people got the "rushed" idea from? 

Let's see...

-Auto dialogue
-Boring fetch quests actually form the majority of the game
-Side missions reused for multiplayer maps
-Laziness especially when it comes to romance scenes and non romance scenes not changing at all even if the  character was romanced (Liara citadel talk springs to mind)

-And obviously... the ending
And of course BioWare foresaw the backlash. You have to be incredibly stupid or just plainly ignore everything around you to not see the fans wouldn't like getting lied to and getting such a heap of garbage as an ending. The true question for BioWare was: Knowing there will be a lot of backlash, what will we do now?
BioWare's answer: Hide behind PR and artistic integrity until it all goes away.<_<

How did random 1 to 2 minute long fetch quests form the majority of the game?  Thats like saying PLanet scanning and Matriarch writing hunting formed the majority of ME2 and ME1 respectively.  That's simply not true.  The fetch quests can ALL be accomplished as one explores galaxy map and really takes no more work than that other than fidning the person to give it to.
The N7 missions thing I was actually surprised they found a use for the MP maps, and while yes they were shooting galleries, very few things in the me series AREN"T when it comes to side missions. So that didn't bother me at all.

As for the ending yeah, it was bad, But at the same time The devs are only Human... and as far as I know BW devs dont have any crystal ball technology to tell them what the best way to go is.  If that was the case then ME1 and ME2 would have been perfect games with NO community backlash in some form.  Which is not true.

Besides if they wre hiding behind PR and AI until it all went away... we would not be getting the EC.

most of your problems that you wrote do not indicate "Rushed" but more of a list of things you dont like.  and the two are not the same.

[Cainne Chapel]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Not sure you can include autodialogue, that's more of a design choice. But plenty of signs of corner cutting in ME3.

Really bob though we could say the same of a few things in ME2 and ME1 if that were the case.... The arguments would never end until the end of time

[abaris]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Really bob though we could say the same of a few things in ME2 and ME1 if that were the case.... The arguments would never end until the end of time

It's what they call "streamlining" that usually is corner cutting going by a fancier name. Could be design choice to attract their "broader audience", but it certainly gives the impression of rush jobs.

And yes, you could say that for most every game in the last decade, but it gets worse with every new title. And that's pointing to developers taking players for babbling idiots with short attention spans.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

they...speculated... that our blind faith would let them get away with anything

[Cainne Chapel]

But there in lies the problem abaris. What some consider streamlining others dont have an issue with and actually find said game more enjoyable. Doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

also while you may think streamlining is a rather new invention in the last decade. Thats also not true. The 90's weren't some bastion of intellectual games either, well no more than there are now a days anyway. For every deep engaging game, there's going to be 20 that aren't. But that doesn't necessarily make them garbage just because SOME dont enjoy them.

There's always going to be niche titles no matter where you go. However, with the numbers the ME series has pulled, I wouldnt quite say they're "niche" titles either. ME is more mainstream than most

[Dessalines]

Yeah, I do have a hard time understanding that they looked at the ending, and did not think that there was not going to be any fallout. I can see if they did not have forums, facebooks, and twitters to show how them how much their fans were invested in the game. (some a bit too invested) It is a bit mind boggling that no one thought that the ending was going to be cause a huge uproar. If people were angry at how tv shows ending which they watch for free, why did they not see this coming.

[AlanC9]

Agreed, Cainne. ME1's exploration and inventory systems are mostly notable for Bio doing the absolute minimum of work to get them functional.

Any game ever made has things that were either done on the cheap or cut altogether because they weren't affordable.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 mai 2012 - 06:48 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Perhaps they are as disconnected from reality as Marie Antoinette was.

[Sebbe1337o]

ME3 needed at least 6 more months in development, but I would gladly give it a year or more.

EA wanted to cover up their bad economy, so they released ME3 prior to the update of those documents that leaked a few weeks ago about EA's economy, saying that they had lost a few billion dollars this year, or however long that cycle is, maybe 6 months?

Anyhow, they thought they could save their asses by releasing ME3 before it was finished, and look what it got us...

[CARL_DF90]

Oy. Clearly, the Bioware docs are not paying enough attention to the products that the company they built make.

[CARL_DF90]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
-First, Bioware's a brand name now, the company you are thinking of was purchased by EA, who now apply the label to their non-sports related studios. EA has a long standing history of just shipping games without attention to quality.

That said it all.

True enough. Still, considering the founding fathers of Bioware are working for EA, one would think they'd be high enough on the totem poll to keep mild disasters like this from seeing the light of day. Of course, if that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion now.