I'm ok with it as one of MANY different options, but him being forced to die goes against the model Mass Effect games have run on for the past two installments; and if he HAS to die then it needs to be a sacrifice that is properly respected and the impact of Shepard's actions needs to be shown, not just a cut to the credits rolling with a bizarre stargazer scene at the end.
Are you OK with Shepard dying at the end of ME3?
Débuté par
kglaser
, mai 02 2012 04:09
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#52
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:23
kglaser
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EnvyTB075 wrote...
kglaser wrote...
I'm an antisocial bastard.
Thats too bad.
Eh...works for me...
#54
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:29
Rustedness
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When Bioware said that ME3 was the end of Shepard's story, I fully expected that he/she would die. Especially after speaking with the squadmates on Earth.
A scene like this maybe
http://thelarekus.de...514101#/d4vwyos
A scene like this maybe
http://thelarekus.de...514101#/d4vwyos
#55
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:30
Ultra Prism
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I thought no because you killed him/her in beginning of ME2 ... so it didn't feel like anything ... I was like well it sucks for my LI more than shepard ... and shepard didnt seem to die in heroic with all sad music End Once and For All
#56
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:30
daecath
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You're missing an option. Basically, whether you live or die should flow directly from how you played the game. It shouldn't be a blanket yes or no statement.
#57
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:31
kyg_20X6
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There seem to be two (somewhat) conflicting themes, or 'moods', to ME3 concerning Shepard. One is a general feeling that Shepard, and everyone else, may not make it through the Reaper War. The other is the relationships with the characters all lead (some over multiple games) to possible, ideal post-war scenarios.
So for the player, you have two conflicting emotions. One is a fear that Shepard, or other important characters, won't survive. The other is hope that they will and that they may find the peace they've been hoping and building towards.
Mass Effect 3, being a game about choice and repercussion, should allow for both and base it on the choices you've made as to whether you will get them. If you've done A,B,C then Shepard won't survive. But if you've done X,Y,Z they will. And variations in-between. This is, I think, what we all expected from the end of this series.
The problem is ME3 only really delivers on the fear. Shepard dies in almost every ending and the one he/she may survive in doesn't really add anything. There is no deliverance on the hope theme. The ending creates a situation that makes it highly questionable whether Shepard, and those they care about, could have the futures they longed for.
Hopefully this is something the EC will address. It would be an incredibly cynical foul for BioWare, after all the feedback, to create epilogue scenes that don't deliver on these expectations (expectations raised by THEIR OWN writing, I might add). Complete the arc.
So for the player, you have two conflicting emotions. One is a fear that Shepard, or other important characters, won't survive. The other is hope that they will and that they may find the peace they've been hoping and building towards.
Mass Effect 3, being a game about choice and repercussion, should allow for both and base it on the choices you've made as to whether you will get them. If you've done A,B,C then Shepard won't survive. But if you've done X,Y,Z they will. And variations in-between. This is, I think, what we all expected from the end of this series.
The problem is ME3 only really delivers on the fear. Shepard dies in almost every ending and the one he/she may survive in doesn't really add anything. There is no deliverance on the hope theme. The ending creates a situation that makes it highly questionable whether Shepard, and those they care about, could have the futures they longed for.
Hopefully this is something the EC will address. It would be an incredibly cynical foul for BioWare, after all the feedback, to create epilogue scenes that don't deliver on these expectations (expectations raised by THEIR OWN writing, I might add). Complete the arc.
#58
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:43
EnvyTB075
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kglaser wrote...
EnvyTB075 wrote...
kglaser wrote...
I'm an antisocial bastard.
Thats too bad.
Eh...works for me...
But you miss out on playing as a Turian D:
#59
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:44
Oldbones2
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kyg_20X6 wrote...
There seem to be two (somewhat) conflicting themes, or 'moods', to ME3 concerning Shepard. One is a general feeling that Shepard, and everyone else, may not make it through the Reaper War. The other is the relationships with the characters all lead (some over multiple games) to possible, ideal post-war scenarios.
So for the player, you have two conflicting emotions. One is a fear that Shepard, or other important characters, won't survive. The other is hope that they will and that they may find the peace they've been hoping and building towards.
Mass Effect 3, being a game about choice and repercussion, should allow for both and base it on the choices you've made as to whether you will get them. If you've done A,B,C then Shepard won't survive. But if you've done X,Y,Z they will. And variations in-between. This is, I think, what we all expected from the end of this series.
The problem is ME3 only really delivers on the fear. Shepard dies in almost every ending and the one he/she may survive in doesn't really add anything. There is no deliverance on the hope theme. The ending creates a situation that makes it highly questionable whether Shepard, and those they care about, could have the futures they longed for.
Hopefully this is something the EC will address. It would be an incredibly cynical foul for BioWare, after all the feedback, to create epilogue scenes that don't deliver on these expectations (expectations raised by THEIR OWN writing, I might add). Complete the arc.
You think Bioware cares about our expectations?
Do you remember the pre game expectations? (most based on Bioware's own hype)
Do you remember the expectations for when Bioware started asking for ideas for an ending DLC? (I'll give you a hint, most people said something to the effect of NO START CHILD)
So where do you live so when this thing comes out I deliver a beautiful expectations cake to your front doorstep (PS, the cake will be empty and the frosting inedible)
#60
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:51
TGSP
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for me it depends on the scenario, if there is a valid unavoidable death required then yes, otherwise I think it's just annoying.
This I agree with completely, I feel the idea that in order to conclude a story you have to have a "You will die" moment with the main character with the occasional option of or a constant companion thrown in. Yes, it means the definitive end to that character's story and subsequent games set in the same universe don't need to have anything more than a passing reference to the great (Insert name here) who sacrificed himself/herself to save everyone.
Dragonage at least had a definitive reason for needing one of the characters to die as opposed to say fallout 3, where the choice of who gets to die a horrible death from radiation exposure is limited to two people even if you have the radiation immune mutant standing right behind you.
Then you get ME3's reasons for heroic suicide which vary from necessary to plain stupid, I can understand how in order to control the reapers properly you have to be assimilated into the citadel, but the shoot these pipey thingies to destroy all the reapers? A) How is that going to start a chain reaction?
If that is somehow going to start a chain reaction that starts with an explosion right there, Why don't I go take and shoot at it from behind some cover over there. I refuse to go into the last option.
Surely after fighting for so long and so hard against the same enemy, Shepard isn't going to run off to play sacrificial lamb without know it's the absolute and final way to remove the threat and even then he's not going to just accept death as an unavoidable outcome.
KingNothing125 wrote...
"The hero must die" trope is annoying and cliche, and (for example), I'm glad JK Rowling resisted the myriad calls for her to off Harry Potter.
This I agree with completely, I feel the idea that in order to conclude a story you have to have a "You will die" moment with the main character with the occasional option of or a constant companion thrown in. Yes, it means the definitive end to that character's story and subsequent games set in the same universe don't need to have anything more than a passing reference to the great (Insert name here) who sacrificed himself/herself to save everyone.
Dragonage at least had a definitive reason for needing one of the characters to die as opposed to say fallout 3, where the choice of who gets to die a horrible death from radiation exposure is limited to two people even if you have the radiation immune mutant standing right behind you.
Then you get ME3's reasons for heroic suicide which vary from necessary to plain stupid, I can understand how in order to control the reapers properly you have to be assimilated into the citadel, but the shoot these pipey thingies to destroy all the reapers? A) How is that going to start a chain reaction?
If that is somehow going to start a chain reaction that starts with an explosion right there, Why don't I go take and shoot at it from behind some cover over there. I refuse to go into the last option.Surely after fighting for so long and so hard against the same enemy, Shepard isn't going to run off to play sacrificial lamb without know it's the absolute and final way to remove the threat and even then he's not going to just accept death as an unavoidable outcome.
#61
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:54
suprhomre
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I don't mind Shepard dead in the end of the trilogy what I mind is that the ending is so out off place it doesn't fit with the whole game/trilogy.
#62
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:56
IanPolaris
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I have no intrinsic problem with Shepard dying. Indeed I rather expected it given the forshadowing. However, I'd like to:
1. At least see some options (good and less so) where Shepard need not die depending on what you did.
2. If he (or she) has to die, then let it be the proper heroic death. Let us see his (empty) casket/burial in space with your friends, squademates, and important people making Eulogies about you and the galaxy you helped save (again depending on how you saved the galaxy). I think the way that DAO handled the Warden Commander's Death (if he chose to die) was perfect.
-Polaris
1. At least see some options (good and less so) where Shepard need not die depending on what you did.
2. If he (or she) has to die, then let it be the proper heroic death. Let us see his (empty) casket/burial in space with your friends, squademates, and important people making Eulogies about you and the galaxy you helped save (again depending on how you saved the galaxy). I think the way that DAO handled the Warden Commander's Death (if he chose to die) was perfect.
-Polaris
#64
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:57
TGSP
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Oldbones2 wrote...
Do you remember the expectations for when Bioware started asking for ideas for an ending DLC? (I'll give you a hint, most people said something to the effect of NO START CHILD)
Did not know this, I assume this was before the whole "we won't change it cause it'll compromise our artistic integrity."
#65
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 05:57
kyg_20X6
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Oldbones2 wrote...
*snip*
I have no idea what you're talking about or why your tone seems to indicate you're angry with me.
#66
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:00
Zombie Chow
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Interesting poll, OP. I find the results so far to be interesting.
#67
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:01
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Not really. One of the many things I hated about the end is that all the choices I made throughout the game don't even matter in the end, they don't change the end in any way, the end is only different videos playing according if you choose left, middle or right (GOSH it makes me so angry). It didn't matter if I romanced miranda, the fact that I saved everyone from my crew, the fact that I had to make deals with all the galaxy for them to fight for me, at the end I get a f*cking cutscene that is the same for everyone. Don't expect me to be happy, and accept the 'artistic integrity' bullsh*t
#68
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:03
Giga Drill BREAKER
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I'm fine with it as long as his death is worth something, as it stands its not.
#69
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:03
Whereto
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If the ending made sense and shep HAD to die in some series of events, I'd be fine with it. I'm also fine with the relays being blown up. What I'm not happy with, is how they did this.
#70
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:08
eoinnx03
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No I wanted my Shep to have little blue children. So I head canon the end, which is easy as the ending makes very little narrative sence, and conflicts with established lore so screw it,my Shep had kids and died an old man.
#71
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:12
kalasaurus
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Voted "no". I'm ok with her dying, but not the way it was basically forced.
#72
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:15
Jassu1979
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I need more options on that poll.
TECHNICALLY and generally speaking, I have no problem with an "heroic sacrifice" ending.
If done well, it's a fitting conclusion that doesn't rub me the wrong way.
Case in point: Mordin and Legion.
HOWEVER, if it's basically the *only* option available to *every* Shepard - renegade, paragon, anything inbetween; ill-prepared, well-prepared, defiant, subdued, whatever - and if it's as shoddily written as the final five minutes: then no, I'm not okay with that.
TECHNICALLY and generally speaking, I have no problem with an "heroic sacrifice" ending.
If done well, it's a fitting conclusion that doesn't rub me the wrong way.
Case in point: Mordin and Legion.
HOWEVER, if it's basically the *only* option available to *every* Shepard - renegade, paragon, anything inbetween; ill-prepared, well-prepared, defiant, subdued, whatever - and if it's as shoddily written as the final five minutes: then no, I'm not okay with that.
#73
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:22
Jassu1979
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The problem is not Shepard's death in itself, but the build-up and the execution.
See, if you basically have the main character say farewell to all of her friends because she expects a one-way trip, and you THEN go on to off her, it's no longer a "bittersweet" ending, but a genuine downer. The more you enforce an atmosphere of hopelessness and certain death in a heroic story, the greater waxes the audience's need for a cathartic resolution that does NOT culminate in death and misery.
If you seriously challenge the audience's hope, you need to reward them for clinging on to it even in the face of utter despair.
Tragedies operate the other way around, kindling false hopes and luring the audience into misplaced trust, ultimately delaying crucial messages, withholding important information from the central characters, etc.
See, if you basically have the main character say farewell to all of her friends because she expects a one-way trip, and you THEN go on to off her, it's no longer a "bittersweet" ending, but a genuine downer. The more you enforce an atmosphere of hopelessness and certain death in a heroic story, the greater waxes the audience's need for a cathartic resolution that does NOT culminate in death and misery.
If you seriously challenge the audience's hope, you need to reward them for clinging on to it even in the face of utter despair.
Tragedies operate the other way around, kindling false hopes and luring the audience into misplaced trust, ultimately delaying crucial messages, withholding important information from the central characters, etc.
#74
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:26
teh DRUMPf!!
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I like it as it is now, with Shepard's life depending on outcomes. For the most part, I do want my canon Shepard to die. I feel like it's his time after walking away alive while many other good people around him do not. It's more heroic, and it's the end of the series/his story anyway so might as well make him go out with a bang.
#75
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:38
shodiswe
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Mev186 wrote...
No, I'm not. Call me old fashioned, but I just don't see why Shepard can't be rewarded with a bit of happiness at the end of this journey. I knew it was a possibility, and if Shepard died in a way that made sense, I would eventually accept it ,but I hoped I would at least be given the option of keeping Shepard alive in the end.
That option seems to exist... Im not sure what hapens after the cutscene that supposedly shows shepard taking a deep breath... Since that's significant enough to warrant a cutscene I'm guessign that meant that shepard survives and not that shepard wakes up just prior to dying horribly in a very painful and nasty fashion...
To me the dying or not dying part isn't the most important part of the ending... I just want the storytellign to make sense and the logic and characters are just incomprehensible to me... Either it's terribly poor writing or im missing something..
While the storytelling quality is the part that upsets me the most it's not the only thing that could have been better about the end mission but for me the storytelling is what made mass effect special compared to all those other shooters and what not out there. So imo, story first, then there were other parts that needed some polish but I probably wouldn't have voiced this much discontent about that. Maybe posted a few sugestions for future games and pointed out where it could have needed some more polish or work on the rough edges.
