F*CK NO.
Shepard should be allowed to make that ultimate sacrifice, but there are a couple of things that need to go along with it.
Most importantly, it needs to be the choice of the player, and the alternative needs to be suitably heart-breaking, For example, maybe you choose Shepard or Anderson to stay behind and activate the Crucible.
Two sub-points to this though -
1. His death should be unavoidable if you didn't prepare enough eg. Anderson is already dead.
2. If you prepare as much as the game allows, both should be able to survive if you choose Shepard, he would be pulled from the jaws of death at the last second, likely badly injured. Okay, moving too far into headcanon territory.
No matter what her death should be heroic. Shepard is a character that never stops, rarely rests, and never gives up. To draw upon headcanon again, my Shepard 'dies' whilst staring down Harbinger amid the explosions of a collapsing Citadel.
Lastly, her death should always win something visibly positive. You know, like the species of the galaxy beginning to rebuild, her friends and allies returning home in safety, that sort of thing. Even if you lose it should show Liara's time-capsule being discovered by the next cycle, with the hologram of Shepard appearing out of it. Certainly not some bullsh*t Adam and Eve allegory.
Are you OK with Shepard dying at the end of ME3?
Débuté par
kglaser
, mai 02 2012 04:09
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#127
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 11:39
Catroi
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it should be POSSIBLE it doesn't have to be either way, remember we were promised 16 different endings?
#128
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 11:40
Elite Midget
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No, I imported and did every single side quest I could and stayed true to my Shepard. Why should my Shepard have to die just because I did everything right?
#129
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 11:41
Aaleel
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If it had been one of many possible endings based on my decisions yes.
Add the fact that the act was pretty much meaningless as well.
Add the fact that the act was pretty much meaningless as well.
#130
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 11:41
crimzontearz
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I find that staying on the Ben too long simply depresses and angers me lately
#131
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 11:42
Mims
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But I want to vote both, /tear.
It shouldn't be Shepard ALWAYS lives or Shepard ALWAYS dies. Where's the fun in that? I have two Shepards, I should at least have two endings. I've got my Femshep who has had a ****ty life, who I'd love to finally have a happy ending after so much fighting. Then I have my jerkass Manshep that spends the entire game being the worst guy possible, but then gives his life for the galaxy in a final, bitter act of redemption.
Aren't both those outcomes valid?
It shouldn't be Shepard ALWAYS lives or Shepard ALWAYS dies. Where's the fun in that? I have two Shepards, I should at least have two endings. I've got my Femshep who has had a ****ty life, who I'd love to finally have a happy ending after so much fighting. Then I have my jerkass Manshep that spends the entire game being the worst guy possible, but then gives his life for the galaxy in a final, bitter act of redemption.
Aren't both those outcomes valid?
#132
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 11:50
crimzontearz
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Artistic integrity dictates that no, they are notMims wrote...But I want to vote both, /tear.It shouldn't be Shepard ALWAYS lives or Shepard ALWAYS dies. Where's the fun in that? I have two Shepards, I should at least have two endings. I've got my Femshep who has had a ****ty life, who I'd love to finally have a happy ending after so much fighting. Then I have my jerkass Manshep that spends the entire game being the worst guy possible, but then gives his life for the galaxy in a final, bitter act of redemption. Aren't both those outcomes valid?
#133
Guest_Nyoka_*
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 12:00
Guest_Nyoka_*
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I'm okay with some decisions leading to Shepard's death, for instance, going to war with pathetic war assets.
We should remember worlds are actively being destroyed while we're playing, and the earth is being hit the most. Millions dead every day. That could have been presented as a valid reason to trigger the endgame as soon as possible - turn on the crucible as soon as it's ready to minimize the body count - at your expense and at the fleets' expense.
We had that in ME2 at a smaller scale: stop building the team in order to rescue the whole crew.
Choice.
We should remember worlds are actively being destroyed while we're playing, and the earth is being hit the most. Millions dead every day. That could have been presented as a valid reason to trigger the endgame as soon as possible - turn on the crucible as soon as it's ready to minimize the body count - at your expense and at the fleets' expense.
We had that in ME2 at a smaller scale: stop building the team in order to rescue the whole crew.
Choice.
#134
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 01:10
Hayllee
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Somewhat. I'd like an option for Shepard to live. I mean, I did literally everything right, Paragon Shep should get to relax. I guess if you count the little *breath* ending as "alive" than she survived.
#135
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 01:15
Shaigunjoe
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Hayllee wrote...
Somewhat. I'd like an option for Shepard to live. I mean, I did literally everything right, Paragon Shep should get to relax. I guess if you count the little *breath* ending as "alive" than she survived.
I feel like a full paragon shep is the one that has to die, as that is pretty much what is expected of a paragon. If Shep cannot make the choice to sacrifice him/herself for an outcome that he/she believes is optimal, then Shep is no paragon.
Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 02 mai 2012 - 01:16 .
#136
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 01:43
Link Ashland 614
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Yep, he had to. Althought My Shepard is hopefully alive.
#137
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 01:47
j_rod2588
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Absolutely not! He deserves to settle down.
#138
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:25
Omega Torsk
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I'm so tired of reading "After all he went through with the Reapers, there's no way he could ever settle down and have a normal life."
As someone wrote earlier, Shepard is a hero, not a martyr. And even the soldiers that survived the Normandy landings at D-Day were able to come home and live normal lives.
If the Geth and EDI have to die so that Shepard may live, then so be it. It's a choice he's going to have to live with just like the Warden has to live with the fact that he slept with Morrigan so that he might live. Just give us the option.
As someone wrote earlier, Shepard is a hero, not a martyr. And even the soldiers that survived the Normandy landings at D-Day were able to come home and live normal lives.
If the Geth and EDI have to die so that Shepard may live, then so be it. It's a choice he's going to have to live with just like the Warden has to live with the fact that he slept with Morrigan so that he might live. Just give us the option.
#140
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:31
Abreu Road
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LilyasAvalon wrote...
If it was optional, like in Dragon Age Origins, than yeah, I'd be okay with it.
This game IS supposed to be about choice ya know...
No. We get it all wrong.
The game was supossed to be about Art.
Choices and consequences? Meh, who would want this anyway?
#141
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:32
Feanor_II
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Yes, for me it's the best possible ending for him/her....
Why? Because otherwise he/she would be no more a galactic cititzen but a kind of living god....... I don't like the scenario that would come from this.
Why? Because otherwise he/she would be no more a galactic cititzen but a kind of living god....... I don't like the scenario that would come from this.
#143
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:35
Vox Draco
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A big NO to Shepard and us being forced to sacrifice her! NO!
Shepard died already once, no need to repeat that! Also there is already enough death and despair in the Galaxy, at least spare the only beacon of hope! And for me, hope is in life! Not in meaingless sacrifices....and most if not all the choices ARE meainingless in my opinion!
I wish for at least one option where Shepard can surely survive and live on to help the Galaxy rebuild and see the ones again she loved and cared for...she has deserved this, and not to die again...
Shepard died already once, no need to repeat that! Also there is already enough death and despair in the Galaxy, at least spare the only beacon of hope! And for me, hope is in life! Not in meaingless sacrifices....and most if not all the choices ARE meainingless in my opinion!
I wish for at least one option where Shepard can surely survive and live on to help the Galaxy rebuild and see the ones again she loved and cared for...she has deserved this, and not to die again...
#144
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 06:50
CDRSkyShepard
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An option for a meaningful "there is no other way" sacrifice should be given as well as a "everything went as well as we could have ever hoped for, Shepard lives to rebuild" ending. I think that Shepard living to see the darkest days of civilization would be bittersweet...having to start the process of rebuilding and all. I felt like that's where my Shep belonged: she belonged beside the people who were with her through the thick and thin (obviously minus a few comrades, this IS war after all) as she helped civilization rebuild. I always felt that was Shepard's destiny, to be a strong leader through the darkest times, and to lead civilization out of the ashes to be born anew, like the Phoenix of legend.
LOLnope. That would be too happy and not thematically moving or artsy enough.
LOLnope. That would be too happy and not thematically moving or artsy enough.
#145
Posté 02 mai 2012 - 10:28
Icinix
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CDRSkyShepard wrote...
An option for a meaningful "there is no other way" sacrifice should be given as well as a "everything went as well as we could have ever hoped for, Shepard lives to rebuild" ending. I think that Shepard living to see the darkest days of civilization would be bittersweet...having to start the process of rebuilding and all. I felt like that's where my Shep belonged: she belonged beside the people who were with her through the thick and thin (obviously minus a few comrades, this IS war after all) as she helped civilization rebuild. I always felt that was Shepard's destiny, to be a strong leader through the darkest times, and to lead civilization out of the ashes to be born anew, like the Phoenix of legend.
LOLnope. That would be too happy and not thematically moving or artsy enough.
The word art is becoming increasingly capable of making me cringe and my skin crawl.
Whenenever I hear art now, I think poor rush job empty souless creation.
#146
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 05:52
Jassu1979
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Mad-Hamlet wrote...
**** no.
It's the Campbellian Hero's Journey crap. Campbell himself was a genius and did amazing work but because of his discoveries into myth and the human aspect a lot of storytellers are embracing this ideas and essentially putting on blinders either in homage or out of laziness.
Ie. I want to create epic. Make hero, hero dies in truimph. IS NEW LEGEND!! RRRAARRRR!!
Excuse me while I go throw the hell up.
Campbell's monomyth doesn't usually culminate in death, but in the hero's return to the place where it all started.
#147
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:04
Jassu1979
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And while we're at it: when exactly did martyrdom become the gold standard of heroism?
I always played my Shepard as a "no one is going to die today"-kind of hero. To just see her shuffle towards her demise is so totally out of character as to totally break the story for me.
I always played my Shepard as a "no one is going to die today"-kind of hero. To just see her shuffle towards her demise is so totally out of character as to totally break the story for me.
#148
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:12
gmboy902
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Yeah, I'm okay with it.
What I'm not okay with is a forced death. It seems to me like (ignoring the bad plot in general) the writers went to the table, made the ending, and put "and Shepard dies" at the end of it.
If you're going to kill off the character we have the most attachment to, you had damn well better make it a meaningful death that really couldn't be avoided without destroying Shepard's beliefs or letting the Reapers win. So, maybe an ending in which Parashep sacrifices himself for humanity, but Reneshep can live given that thousands or millions of people die for (insert good reason here). Making a magical space beam that disintegrates Shepard instead of taking a blood sample (DNA is the exact same in both cases) for Synthesis was foolish. Control made sense because you can't have Reaper-God Shepard running around Earth - maybe not killing him off, but making him disconnected from everyone he ever knew. And Destroy made little sense as well - why do I have to shoot an explosive tube to destroy the synthetics, again?
If Shepard has to die, I want to believe that. I want to see it coming before anyone says it. They hinted at it when he was all banged up in the Citadel with no apparent way out. But until Astroboy describes the three options, I wasn't convinced he had to die.
What I'm not okay with is a forced death. It seems to me like (ignoring the bad plot in general) the writers went to the table, made the ending, and put "and Shepard dies" at the end of it.
If you're going to kill off the character we have the most attachment to, you had damn well better make it a meaningful death that really couldn't be avoided without destroying Shepard's beliefs or letting the Reapers win. So, maybe an ending in which Parashep sacrifices himself for humanity, but Reneshep can live given that thousands or millions of people die for (insert good reason here). Making a magical space beam that disintegrates Shepard instead of taking a blood sample (DNA is the exact same in both cases) for Synthesis was foolish. Control made sense because you can't have Reaper-God Shepard running around Earth - maybe not killing him off, but making him disconnected from everyone he ever knew. And Destroy made little sense as well - why do I have to shoot an explosive tube to destroy the synthetics, again?
If Shepard has to die, I want to believe that. I want to see it coming before anyone says it. They hinted at it when he was all banged up in the Citadel with no apparent way out. But until Astroboy describes the three options, I wasn't convinced he had to die.
#149
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:18
Seival
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ME games are all about choices and their consiquences. ME Trilogy final has to have several ways for main hero to complete his/her mission and survive. But survivals must be harder to achieve of course...
And actually ME3 has this. Both best Control and best Destroy endings allow Shepard to survive (as the new Catalist/Reaper in Control, or remaining human in Destroy). BioWare just have to explain this correctly in Extended Cut.
And actually ME3 has this. Both best Control and best Destroy endings allow Shepard to survive (as the new Catalist/Reaper in Control, or remaining human in Destroy). BioWare just have to explain this correctly in Extended Cut.
Modifié par Seival, 03 mai 2012 - 11:25 .
#150
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:24
chevyguy87
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To NOT have the option to survive in a game of this nature is just frustrating. Seriously I ended with 7200 EMS and 100% Galactic Readiness. Which makes one wonder what was the point of doing all of that if no matter what we get the same tragic ending. The whole notion that the hero "has to" die is complete nonsense.
On a side note I'm one of those whose rooting for the EC to open up with Anderson pulling Shepard out of the rubble and getting the chance to kick Harbinger in the daddy bags. We will find out soon I hope.
On a side note I'm one of those whose rooting for the EC to open up with Anderson pulling Shepard out of the rubble and getting the chance to kick Harbinger in the daddy bags. We will find out soon I hope.
