172 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Jassu1979 wrote...

And while we're at it: when exactly did martyrdom become the gold standard of heroism?

About 30AD?

(Actually earlier, but that date will do)

[ZajoE38]

I love the idea of Shepard sacrificing for galaxy.

[JackofStaves]

Wulfram wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

And while we're at it: when exactly did martyrdom become the gold standard of heroism?

About 30AD?

(Actually earlier, but that date will do)

BOOM!

And I think we have a winner.....

[nitefyre410]

Wulfram wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

And while we're at it: when exactly did martyrdom become the gold standard of heroism?

About 30AD?

(Actually earlier, but that date will do)

 

I appluaded  you excellent use of scarasm and history sir...

but know what was meant by what Jassu said .  The is complete over usage in the mass media of the "heroic Sacrifice" to the point that  is becoming complete meaningless  and devoid of everything that has made it great since 30 AD.  

Its almost getting as bad as "Darker and Edgier" back in the 90's...  almost everything has  some heoric sacfrice... thats not great writing... that just mass production because it sold well once and now everyone is trying to catch lightning in a bottle. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 03 mai 2012 - 11:34 .

[Volumes]

I'm not completely okay with it, no.

Mainly because it seems he has to die no matter what you do. This is something I'd expect from a game like Halo, where you play through a linear storyline where the possible fate of Chief is already decided before we get there. Unless, of course, you count ME3's Destroy - High EMS ending, but even then we don't know for sure what just happened to Shep.

Here's hoping the summer DLC sorts that mystery out.

I'm still under the impression that DA:O's ending is a great example of a good, choice-based way to decide your character's finale. This, of course, is assuming that ME3 can even be regarded as an RPG to that same extent.

Modifié par Volumes, 03 mai 2012 - 11:37 .

[zenoxis]

No, the main hero "having to die" is lame, overused, tired and unoriginal, all of which Bioware has shown they are capable of not doing in their story writing on many different occasions. The hero sacrifices himself? This is the kind of crap any chump could vomit out and call writing. Bioware was expected to go beyond that and they didn't.

[ZajoE38]

Volumes wrote...

I'm not completely okay with it, no.

Mainly because it seems he has to die no matter what you do. This is something I'd expect from a game like Halo, where you play through a linear storyline where the fate of Chief is already decided before we get. Unless, of course, you count ME3's Destroy - High EMS ending, but even then we don't know for sure what just happened to Shep.

Here's hoping the summer DLC sorts that mystery out.

I'm still under the impression that DA:O's ending is a great example of a good, choice-based way to decide your character's finale. This, of course, is assuming that ME3 can even be regarded as an RPG in the way DA:O can.

I agree, damn deux ex machina - starchild really messed it all up. But let's accept that we can't fight them conventionaly, Shepard uses Crucible and has to do something. Crucible can be used many ways, Catalyst just told him what he can do. If Shepard didn't chose one, nothing would happen and galaxy would be reaped. So ok, Shepard died eliminating Reaper threat and galaxy comes to new age. I wish that in DLC it will all be explained further, because so far the ending is very cryptic.

[wright1978]

zenoxis wrote...

No, the main hero "having to die" is lame, overused, tired and unoriginal, all of which Bioware has shown they are capable of not doing in their story writing on many different occasions. The hero sacrifices himself? This is the kind of crap any chump could vomit out and call writing. Bioware was expected to go beyond that and they didn't.

Yep agree completely

[BunBun299]

I've not read this thread beyond the opening post to see what everyone else is saying intentionally, so I can just deliver my own oppinion here. I went into Mass Effect 3 fully prepared for the possiblity that Shepard might die. At the same time, I hoped it would not happen. Or at least, that if it were a possiblity, that it would be a natural result of our actions through out the series, not a predetermined, here's the end of the game, time to kill the hero. It should have been something more along the lines of ME2's suicide mission, where, if you do not prepare the galaxy well enough, then Shepard can die. I also think death in this circumstance should have been easier than in the suicide mission. If you did poorly, then you should just lose outright. If you did so so, you can win, but must die to save the galaxy. And if you brought virtually every war asset possible to the final battle, and make the right choiced in how to deploy them, you live, and get to have a family with Ashley or Kaidan or Liara or adopt Krogan babies with Garrus or Tali, etc. Also, if you do die to save the galaxy, you love interest should be seen crying over your grave, unless he or she died too.

Doing that way, Shepard's death would have felt like a natural end of the story, and a consequence of your choices through out. As it is, no, I am not at all OK with Shepard's death. It feels artifical and fatalistic, like this is how it has to happen, and that no matter what you choose, it was all for nothing. I don't like the concept of fatalism in fantasy games where I'm supposed to be the chosen hero. In no story is fate more out of place than in Mass Effect.

[BrowncoatN7]

I don't want my Shepard to have to die in the end, she deserves her happy ending with Garrus. There should definitely be a possibility for Shepard sacrificing her-/himself, though.

[ZajoE38]

wright1978 wrote...

zenoxis wrote...

No, the main hero "having to die" is lame, overused, tired and unoriginal, all of which Bioware has shown they are capable of not doing in their story writing on many different occasions. The hero sacrifices himself? This is the kind of crap any chump could vomit out and call writing. Bioware was expected to go beyond that and they didn't.

Yep agree completely

Hero having to die is lame. But immortal hero who can survive the lowest odds in history of galaxy is also lame. No matter how is his story ended.. every possibility is overused. But there is a option for those who want him survived.. Shepard breath scene. It means he can survive, but how he managed to do that is pure magic. Explosion was just too big. Only if someone cast some protective shield on him.. or I don't know. And this surviving is not satisfying because it lacks the closure and explanation.

[Jassu1979]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

And while we're at it: when exactly did martyrdom become the gold standard of heroism?

About 30AD?

(Actually earlier, but that date will do)

 

I appluaded  you excellent use of scarasm and history sir...

but know what was meant by what Jassu said .  The is complete over usage in the mass media of the "heroic Sacrifice" to the point that  is becoming complete meaningless  and devoid of everything that has made it great since 30 AD.  

Its almost getting as bad as "Darker and Edgier" back in the 90's...  almost everything has  some heoric sacfrice... thats not great writing... that just mass production because it sold well once and now everyone is trying to catch lightning in a bottle. 

^^ This, basically.

But as you've already alluded to Christian mythology: that one would play out vastly different if the dead hero actually STAYED dead. Alas, contrary to what Mel Gibson's religious snuff porn indicates, the most important aspect of that particular myth has always been the resurrection and ascension, not the violent death that preceded it.

[EricHVela]

Yes. Shepard can die. That's fine.

No. Shepard cannot die for stupid reasons. That's not.

Shepard dies for stupid reasons.

[Jassu1979]

I prefer heroes who live for their ideals to heroes who die for the same.

Why? Because the former is much harder to pull off than the latter.

[JackofStaves]

All kidding aside, the concept of a hero sacrificing themselves for the greater good might be unoriginal, but hardly a passe concept. Let's use the modern US military for an example; since World War II, 851 service members have received the Medal of Honor, the countries highest citation for extraordinary bravery under fire. Of that number, 523 were awarded posthumously. 60% of those service members sacrificed themselves for their comrades.

I might not agree with Shepard having to die, and the chain of events that were scripted to drive decisions at the end, as I think that it should be a conscious decision for Shepard to make that sacrifice. But, it IS something that heroes, even in our world, have to do sometimes....

[wright1978]

ZajoE38 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

zenoxis wrote...

No, the main hero "having to die" is lame, overused, tired and unoriginal, all of which Bioware has shown they are capable of not doing in their story writing on many different occasions. The hero sacrifices himself? This is the kind of crap any chump could vomit out and call writing. Bioware was expected to go beyond that and they didn't.

Yep agree completely

Hero having to die is lame. But immortal hero who can survive the lowest odds in history of galaxy is also lame. No matter how is his story ended.. every possibility is overused. But there is a option for those who want him survived.. Shepard breath scene. It means he can survive, but how he managed to do that is pure magic. Explosion was just too big. Only if someone cast some protective shield on him.. or I don't know. And this surviving is not satisfying because it lacks the closure and explanation.

Breath scene, an easter egg ending which is only achievable by playing multiplayer. Unless it is properly fleshed out and conditions for it are fixed in EC this bad joke as a Shep living ending. He could equally be the death rattle before he/she dies.

[nitefyre410]

JackofStaves wrote...

All kidding aside, the concept of a hero sacrificing themselves for the greater good might be unoriginal, but hardly a passe concept. Let's use the modern US military for an example; since World War II, 851 service members have received the Medal of Honor, the countries highest citation for extraordinary bravery under fire. Of that number, 523 were awarded posthumously. 60% of those service members sacrificed themselves for their comrades.

I might not agree with Shepard having to die, and the chain of events that were scripted to drive decisions at the end, as I think that it should be a conscious decision for Shepard to make that sacrifice. But, it IS something that heroes, even in our world, have to do sometimes....

  

None is saying that is passe but it is getting to the point where its terriblely over used and not in a good way.  Writers  are using it to bring across the sacrifce of something for the great good but as a means  of emotionally manipulating there audeince.. 

Thats what I feel that  Biowere is doing - just trying to be emotionally  manipluative.  Instead of presenting the this and going "here is a emotional situation where the Hero my scacrifce and make a hard choice."  They are going " We are going to make you feel something by forcing this on you."  

 

[Joccaren]

Gah, why are all these polls so one side or another focused. Even Bioware got it right - "Yes", "No" and "It should be one option of many".

Shepard should not be FORCED to die, nor should they be FORCED to live. It should come down to the players choices throughout the previous games, and the players choice at the end, and be on equal grounds.
As an example, with Meta-Gaming you can say there is an ending that Shepard lives in in ME3. The cost is highly undesirable however - the Geth and EDI are eradicated. None of the other endings have this cost.
On the other hand, it must always have a cost, otherwise it is an obvious and easy choice. Hence why the "No to Catalyst" works so well. Your fleet wins, you've suffered heavy losses, but managed to take down the Reapers. Shepard didn't kill off any one race, and all sacrificed evenly, and fought on their own terms for a brighter future. Alternatively, if you did poorly in the previous games, Shepard dies and the Reapers take over the Galaxy and harvest it... again... - multiple options for the endings.

That is what I vote. I am ok with Shepard dying in A FEW OF MANY endings, but not a forced death in every ending, or living where you have to commit Genocide to do so.

[BunBun299]

ZajoE38 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

zenoxis wrote...

No, the main hero "having to die" is lame, overused, tired and unoriginal, all of which Bioware has shown they are capable of not doing in their story writing on many different occasions. The hero sacrifices himself? This is the kind of crap any chump could vomit out and call writing. Bioware was expected to go beyond that and they didn't.

Yep agree completely

Hero having to die is lame. But immortal hero who can survive the lowest odds in history of galaxy is also lame. No matter how is his story ended.. every possibility is overused. But there is a option for those who want him survived.. Shepard breath scene. It means he can survive, but how he managed to do that is pure magic. Explosion was just too big. Only if someone cast some protective shield on him.. or I don't know. And this surviving is not satisfying because it lacks the closure and explanation.

Yeah, the only way Shepard could actually have survived that is if he/she is the last son/daughter of Krypton. Yet one more thing about the ending that doesn't make sense.

[Elyiia]

I am okay with the possibility of Shepard dying. I am not okay with Shepard's death being forced on me.

[DazenCobalt17]

I voted no but honestly if her sacrifice meant something I'd accept it. I would NOT like it because she deserves her peace with Liara and those blue children but I'd accept it. *sniffs* >: damn man I'm all emotional over my shep...

[incinerator950]

Doesn't phaze me, Bug Man needs a nap.

[FatalX7.0]

Sure, but it depends on stuff.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 03 mai 2012 - 01:14 .