69 réponses à ce sujet

[Darpaek]

I loved my lil city elf hottie 2h warrior - she was hilarious. But there's nothing in this game that requires a tank-n-spank. I know they designed all these agro-based features for warriors but everything dies so quick they're not necessary.



3 DPS + a mage is much more "combat effective" than Tank + 2 DPS + a mage and blows away 2 Tanks + DPS + a mage.

[RamsenC]

Shield and sword tank is a waste. There is no reason to give up that much damage and CC for unnecessary defense (yes I'm talking about nightmare). A 2h champ/templar will give you 3 forms of AoE CC and one single target CC, while being immune to pretty much everything considering you stack spell resist.

Now to turn this ultimate CC tank into ultimate dps, get two mages running haste. You now have the most OP character in the game. I would literally send my team away into another room and solo the hardest bosses/encounters. All 2h needs is some mage support.

DW warrior is great since it doesn't need as much mage support, but thats why you are given three other characters. Use them.

Best group imo = 2 haste mages + 2 two-hand warriors. Cast earthquake in a group of enemies and watch how your warriors destroy them with ease. I am considering trying another game with a rogue PC to replace one of the 2h warriors, that may be better.

Modifié par RamsenC, 08 décembre 2009 - 07:30 .

[Haexpane]

DW is supposed to kill faster, which is why many of the 2H skills are more like "spells"



"You can't knock me down, I make your armor weaksauce" etc.. to make up for lack of DPS

[Infiniteone2]

Jensonagain wrote...

I could be wrong but I just started to play a new campaign as a two hand sword warrior and I can't believe how much slower I kill things compared to a dual wield.

Do you feel a 10% attack speed increase is in order for a two hand warrior?

Or is my ability to withstand knockdown, sunder arms, knock enemies down supposed to make up for the lack of DPS?

Bioware said that the cc/debuff abilities or whatever are the reason 2h sucks balls at dps.  I'd rather use a mage for those things but meh.

[Kimberly Shaw]

The other issue with 2H warriors is that you lose 3 rune slots with 1 sword v 2 swords., A small but fairly significant difference with grand master runes at end game (+15-30 damage per hit adds up quickly).

[Inarai]

Infiniteone2 wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

I could be wrong but I just started to play a new campaign as a two hand sword warrior and I can't believe how much slower I kill things compared to a dual wield.

Do you feel a 10% attack speed increase is in order for a two hand warrior?

Or is my ability to withstand knockdown, sunder arms, knock enemies down supposed to make up for the lack of DPS?

Bioware said that the cc/debuff abilities or whatever are the reason 2h sucks balls at dps.  I'd rather use a mage for those things but meh.

A highly resistant melee controller can be the best tank you can have - instead of taking major damage, they lock down the opponent, preventing them from hurting ANYONE.  Used right, the two-handed style can be highly, highly effective for controlling the battlefield.

[NErWOnek]

My 2h Dwarf Duster Princess can tear all those dragons, demons and villains to shreds!

[nicodeemus327]

Activated abilities can make up for a lot of that missing damage. They also net you some nice utility.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 08 décembre 2009 - 09:32 .

[Haexpane]

Inarai wrote...

 

A highly resistant melee controller can be the best tank you can have - instead of taking major damage, they lock down the opponent, preventing them from hurting ANYONE.  Used right, the two-handed style can be highly, highly effective for controlling the battlefield.

yes and no.   Under ideal conditions a 2H w/ a stun weapon can pwn.. IF GIVEN A CHANCE.  

If you have a Mage and a Rogue in your group, chances are they will kill everything before you get the chance to stun it.

I would direct control my 2H tank and make my other toons HOLD so I could at least get a chance to smash some stuff first, more fun that way.

PAUSE
HOLD
control 2H toon, run into a huge fray solo.... wait til I need healing
MOVE FREELY
let mages/rogues clean up the mess

Other wise it went like this
Attack target w/ my uber 2H skill
SWING 2H blade..
target dies before I hit it because Mage/Rogue is pwning it

rinse repeat

[RamsenC]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

The other issue with 2H warriors is that you lose 3 rune slots with 1 sword v 2 swords., A small but fairly significant difference with grand master runes at end game (+15-30 damage per hit adds up quickly).

This is true, but the best 2h weapons have a 1.25 str modifier while the best 1h weapons have a 1.1 str modifier. This will end up being a huge difference in damage. On top of that 2h does not have to raise dex at all. With the amount of CC available you do not even need the extra defense from dex to tank. This is from my personal experience on nightmare.

Modifié par RamsenC, 08 décembre 2009 - 07:49 .

[OneBadAssMother]

2handed warriors can be very useful if played correctly. My wife, who is a natural at this game, first played a DW rogue, and dished out damage I simply could not belief. But after she played a 2handed warrior noblewoman, I learnt how to use a 2hander more effectively.



I don't feel a 2hander needs a 10% speed increase in basic attacks cause simply - you should NOT be using basic attacks. The sunder line of talents allows you 2 hits instead of 1 per attack and you can do incredible damage - 200 damage 1 second = common. With deathblow and decent willpower you should have enough stamina to last any battle, especially considering the sunder line has low stamina cost. The fast cooldowns are great and you'll find you can "1 hit" people simply with sunder talents at times.



Not to mention immunity to stun or knockdown. Every character my wife played turned out freakin' invincible. She diced Loghain in seconds even. I'm playing a 2hander now with my wife's tactics and to be honest I simply don't know why ppl go "2hander sux"

[Yxiomel]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Of course, destroyer is a nice talent to have around too...lets your 2-handed warrior lower the enemies armor with every hit, making your dual-wielder do more damage.

Honestly, I've done rogue archer, 2-handed warrior and am currently playing an arcane warrior, and the 2-handed warrior was the most fun of the 3 so far (dual-wield dex-based rogue is next, then strength/dex dual-wield warrior, and finally sword and board warrior.)

It would be nice if thats what Destroyer did, alas that is only what Destroyer claims to do... It actually only procs off of critical hits,  for a 3 second debuff of 5 armour (stunning blows also fails to mention its crit restriction).

Two-handed was fun, but dual seems far far superior. Why control when you can drop them so fast? On top of that, dual has stuns where 2h has knockbacks - knockbacks hurt your own DPS since you push them out of melee range, stuns only hurt *their* DPS. Two-handed sweep is nice, but you could go Champion and pick up Superiority, or heck - call me crazy - get a mage for that. Powerful Swings has nothing on Momentum, and Dual Strinking is a flat out double-DPS (OK, no crits, but I don't think its much of a trade-off; I'm not entirely sure on what the crit coefficient is, but it would have to be a lot to be better than double DPS on every hit).
Then you get to abuse weapon spells far harder (hit more, Dual Striking) etc.

So Two-handers are cool, but they aren't well balanced vs dual. That's not surprising though - a lot of things aren't that well balanced. We may as well talk about the balance between Cone of Cold and Shock
It's not a competition though, so you can just play what's fun, and not worry about it, I know I did.

[OneBadAssMother]

A DW Rogue will win hands down at the flanks. A 2hander will win hands down at the front. You got 2 DPS classes at ur disposal.



Yxiomel, you should see how the missus and other play their 2handers. Its no competition, just different classes, and if played right, both are powerhouses for damage. Only character-build I found lacking was a sword/board warrior. As a hero, I would rather be killing the most enemies at once yes? Let the sword/board warrior do what he does best (Alistair, getting hit)



Shale: Order me to do something

Me: Ok attack Alistair!

Alistair: Hey!!



Heh, classic

[Denhvide]

SharpneI wrote...

a GIANT SWINGING SWORD is a much better suited sexual innuedo then two dinky lil blades

Thats about it...

[RamsenC]

Yxiomel wrote...

Two-handed was fun, but dual seems far far superior. Why control when you can drop them so fast? On top of that, dual has stuns where 2h has knockbacks - knockbacks hurt your own DPS since you push them out of melee range, stuns only hurt *their* DPS. Two-handed sweep is nice, but you could go Champion and pick up Superiority, or heck - call me crazy - get a mage for that. Powerful Swings has nothing on Momentum, and Dual Strinking is a flat out double-DPS (OK, no crits, but I don't think its much of a trade-off; I'm not entirely sure on what the crit coefficient is, but it would have to be a lot to be better than double DPS on every hit).
Then you get to abuse weapon spells far harder (hit more, Dual Striking) etc.

You really need to try a double hasted 2h warrior, because you will be dropping enemies faster than a DW warrior. Also who says you shouldn't get two-hand sweep AND superiority, the more CC the better. Powerful swings is garbage, but momentum is useless with double haste. If you do not wan't to run double haste for whatever reason then you have a point. On top of that you are also immune to stun and knockback.

Also dual striking does not add double damage, if that were true rogues would be pointless. It does add around 30% more damage, but you give up crits of course. You did make one good point though, riposte is probably better than pommel strike, although it has double the cooldown. Then again 2h has a high chance to stun enemies off crits and critical strike and mighty blow crit often.

[Inarai]

RamsenC wrote...

Yxiomel wrote...

Two-handed was fun, but dual seems far far superior. Why control when you can drop them so fast? On top of that, dual has stuns where 2h has knockbacks - knockbacks hurt your own DPS since you push them out of melee range, stuns only hurt *their* DPS. Two-handed sweep is nice, but you could go Champion and pick up Superiority, or heck - call me crazy - get a mage for that. Powerful Swings has nothing on Momentum, and Dual Strinking is a flat out double-DPS (OK, no crits, but I don't think its much of a trade-off; I'm not entirely sure on what the crit coefficient is, but it would have to be a lot to be better than double DPS on every hit).
Then you get to abuse weapon spells far harder (hit more, Dual Striking) etc.

You really need to try a double hasted 2h warrior, because you will be dropping enemies faster than a DW warrior. Also who says you shouldn't get two-hand sweep AND superiority, the more CC the better. Powerful swings is garbage, but momentum is useless with double haste. If you do not wan't to run double haste for whatever reason then you have a point. On top of that you are also immune to stun and knockback.

Can we not assume everyone's running two mages?  No party configuration should be somehow mandated.

[Orrus_Brosca]

I played through the game with my duel-wielding dwarf and 2 axes. My damage output has been awesome it's true, however, my recently rolled 2-handy warrior is so much fun to play! I kind of like the long, drawn-out swings where you KNOW you're about to see some fat damage number. It's a little delayed gratification and it actually makes it more exciting for me.

[jisan74]

I have oghren as a 2 hander since he starts that way.He was my most powerful character in the game and hardly ever got ko'd.As for zevran my dual weapon fighter he was good but most of the time he got ko'd before he could kill 2 people.True 2 hnaders are slow.But if you make them right they can be brutal fighters

[RamsenC]

Inarai wrote...

Can we not assume everyone's running two mages?  No party configuration should be somehow mandated.

Well you could run one mage and use blood thirst (dlc ability), but that health drain is dangerous ;o

[IndomitusRex]

2-handed is indeed incredibly lackluster compared to dual-wielding, for a lot of reasons. The first reason being that 2-handers just don't seem to scale as well as two one-handers.



The second broad reason why 2-handed Warriors are inferior is because their talent chains are so much worse. A 2-hander Warrior needs to spend two talents for two separate abilities that reduce attack and defense, while a dual-wielder gets Cripple that does both and slows the target. 2-hander Warriors get a single, long cooldown AoE attack (that they have to wait until level 12 for, I believe), while dual-wielders get a frontal cone AoE as early as they like (with a nominal cooldown), and another longer cooldown AoE later on. The 2-hander sustainables are just worse, as well. One is a minuscule damage increase (with a useful secondary effect), the other kills your attack and defense for a bit of damage (and you have to spend another talent point to make it less crappy). And having to spend a talent point to increase your damage against Golems (all 28 of them in the entire game) is just garbage.



Don't get me wrong, I liked playing the 2-hander Warrior, but let's look at some numbers. My final damage percentage dealt by my 2-hander Warrior (in a party that largely consisted of Morrigan, Alastair, and Zevrhan) was around 40% (I believe), while my dual-wielding Warrior, with the same party, dealt about 66% of the total damage. I'm sure the Starfang made a difference, but still, that's quite a margin.

[No Money Own Teeth]

How does 'sword and sheild' compare with the other two ?

[OneBadAssMother]

I have to disagree, it is the talent chains of the 2handers that make it worthwhile. Sunder arms/armor should not be used for debuffs - but for your MAIN attacks. 2-hander warrior reigns supreme over other warrior classes for DPS.



A DW rogue however - thats another story. I've seen my wife's rogue in action and its enough to make me go "you win". Though she plays the 2hander just as well - hence the tactics I have brought up - these are hers.

[Haexpane]

No Money Own Teeth wrote...

How does 'sword and sheild' compare with the other two ?

I found it useless.

Is "double hasting" a glitch or intended?

[No Money Own Teeth]

What % of warriors would play 'sword and sheild' style ??

[Wolfva2]

Howabout the difference between armor penetration? I seem to recall hearing somewhere that 2H has a bit better penetration then DW. Maybe not all that big a deal if you're fighting a genlock in leather, but might come in handy if you're fighting, say, a dragon.