69 réponses à ce sujet

[RamsenC]

I don't think anyone should play a sword and shield tank, unless they want a tank they don't have to pay attention to at all. Also double hasting is not a glitch because 50% more attack speed does not push you over the cap. Then again may be it is a glitch who knows.

There is a bug that slows your attack speed down if you break the attack speed cap, which is why haste which gives 25% attack speed does not stack with momentum which gives 42% attack speed. I'm assuming your attack speed loops around back to your base attack speed if you break the cap.

In fact you can use momentum with haste if you also use precise striking since it lowers your attack speed by 10%. Stacking attack speed bonuses is fine as long as you do not break the cap, which should be somewhere between 57-67% attack speed.

Modifié par RamsenC, 08 décembre 2009 - 09:55 .

[Siven80]

Some of us like Sword and board Warriors as they are the traditional warrior type.

I personally love shields and while they wont out damage anyone bar healers they do respectable damage, Especially the Assault talent with shield mastery.

But yes they are great Tanks and when geared right and with good stat points you can pretty much leave them alone, but you wont get the best out of them like that. All shield talents have either knockdowns or Stuns for battlefield control so dont neglect them.



2H warriors are ok. Their saving grace is the middle line of talents as they attack twice. Top line is ok mainly cos of the sustained, but the bottom line is garbage apart from the 360 sweep for battlefield control.

Like others say, its more of a control/debuff style whereas DW is for the uber DPS.

[Inarai]

RamsenC wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Can we not assume everyone's running two mages?  No party configuration should be somehow mandated.

Well you could run one mage and use blood thirst (dlc ability), but that health drain is dangerous ;o

DLC abilities are also out - not everyone has access.

[jisan74]

No Money Own Teeth wrote...

What % of warriors would play 'sword and sheild' style ??

 i love playing with a sword and shield.More than 2 handers and dual.But that doens't mean i don't sometimes play the other 2 .

I'd say about 80% of the time i play sword and shield and 10% 2hander and 10%dual.But that just the way i like to play

[DragonRageGT]

Pseron Wyrd wrote...

I love my 2H warrior. I know a lot of players have complained about the slow attack speed but it honestly has never bothered me. I love being the only character standing during the Ostragar Ogre battle. But then again I like two-handed sword wielding combat in fantasy games so much I've been thinking about getting Claymores Forever tattooed on my arm. So I'm not exactly unbiased.

+1!

Same here. And I'm having a blast in mu current NM run with my one and only char, so far, zerker/champ 2 handed (same base char as my Normal and Hard runs), with Sten (sometimes Oghren), Alistair and Leliana... No mages in NM for me and my battles are faster than with mages and a lot more fun too.

Really, don't take my word for it. Watch my movies and see for yourself, when you're taking a break from a long DA session! (yeah, few more views and ratings wouldn't hurt... they're in my post all over the forum and thanks in advance for taking the time to watch them)... Although I gave up on mages not long ago, very recently actually, I'm so delighted with my new party formation that I'm filming them non stop almost. And some movies are coming out pretty decent too. Pitty I decided that in mid game but mages have been useful at the start. (And I'll still use them for my "best party banter" series)

Now, DW may be the best and all but for me, a good Greatsword is the most fun,  DA included. Sure, my Leliana just got a 480 dmg hit, Mages can get it even hight but I'm pretty happy with my 277 max dmg dealt so far... it will go up still as I got that way before my first char that finished the game already, in Hard. (and got only 206 dmg as max.)

I feel pretty much liker a killing machine now and I hardly need to drink potions now, I'm still uninjured in this NM run, my battles in NM are fluid with a lot less pausing than before and thanks to 1.02, a lot more stamina from my killing blows for more talents usage! Sure, I think I may have the best built and equip I could get but others may have it even better. I am even considering another NM run with the same char... I really love him... but it is a bit early to think of that... I haven't even reached the landsmeet yet and my current level 19 should go higher than the first one (finished at 22).

Modifié par RageGT, 08 décembre 2009 - 10:46 .

[Yxiomel]

RamsenC wrote...
Also dual striking does not add double damage, if that were true rogues would be pointless. It does add around 30% more damage, but you give up crits of course.

How do you figure that? You pick up an extra main-hand attack on your off-hand hits, and  vice versa. Since you alternate between hands normally, you have now 2 main hands for every previous one, and vice versa.
"Main-hand then off hand" becomes "main-hand and off-hand then main-hand and off-hand". Surely that is double, or is there something else that happens that isn't published?
You can double haste a dual-wielder, and so while that takes Momentum out, dual is still ahead. The main issue is dual wielding abuses damage bonuses by multi-packeting the damage.

[CorwynNiTessine]

I had sword+shield (with Alistair), and I really liked it. I could run Alistair into a large group and not worry about him. He could pull as much aggro as he wanted and I would only occasionally have to heal him.



I see people complaining about the Ser Cautherain fight, which I didn't even realize was difficult. I can only assume they didn't max out the sword&shield talents with their tank.



I tried Arcane Warrior with my main mage PC (late in the game at a high level, with all 4 AW spells), then gave up after I realized it wasn't much better than Alistair's sword+shield (with Rally, etc...). I'd rather have my mage do CC and DPS than act as a tank.

[RamsenC]

Yxiomel wrote...

RamsenC wrote...
Also dual striking does not add double damage, if that were true rogues would be pointless. It does add around 30% more damage, but you give up crits of course.

How do you figure that? You pick up an extra main-hand attack on your off-hand hits, and  vice versa. Since you alternate between hands normally, you have now 2 main hands for every previous one, and vice versa.
"Main-hand then off hand" becomes "main-hand and off-hand then main-hand and off-hand". Surely that is double, or is there something else that happens that isn't published?
You can double haste a dual-wielder, and so while that takes Momentum out, dual is still ahead. The main issue is dual wielding abuses damage bonuses by multi-packeting the damage.

Dual striking combines the speed of both your weapons, you do not hit as fast with both weapons. However, the animation is bugged. It does look like you attack at the same speed, this is why you see animations where nothing happens, no damage no miss no nothing. You also hear a loud whiff sound.

About the runes, you have to consider the best 2h weapons have a 1.25 str modifier and 2h does not need to throw points into dex. With that in mind 2h can def make up for the loss in rune damage. Really the best way to get the most dps out of your DW is to run momentum, haste, and precise striking. This will give you 57% attack speed, which is below the cap. That set up should out dps a 2h warrior by a little bit, but you will still miss out on the stun/knockback immunity and better CC. Also note that 2h will still do more dps against high armor enemies either way.


 

[Jensonagain]

Muddyboot2701 wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

Guys I gave up and remade.

The power of dual wield has corrupted me. It's a night & day difference.

Duncan was dual wield.. I rest my case

If Duncan had shield wall or indomitable the king would still be alive.  But nooo someone has to dual wield.

LOL!! hah

[Palathas]

For me it's not the speed of attacks it's the fact that I have to play out the attack animation before I can move on.

I'll attack an enemy and hot once, Alistair (or another character like Liliana) will attack 2 or three times in the time that it's taken me to finish the first attack's animation and start the second so the enemy drops. The other friendly moves on and I'm still stuck there finishing off my second attack's animation of which the second attack hit a corpse on it's way to the ground.

I've found that attack and finishing kill animations can cause a whole world of problems. I've only kept the 2H character so I can get the achievement for filling out the talent tree.

Modifié par Palathas, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:47 .

[Kaosgirl]

RamsenC wrote...

Now to turn this ultimate CC tank into ultimate dps, get two mages running haste. You now have the most OP character in the game. I would literally send my team away into another room and solo the hardest bosses/encounters. All 2h needs is some mage support.

Just a nitpick here: if you're getting buffs from the mages, you're not *really* soloing the encounter.

[DragonRageGT]

Akshara wrote...

Muddyboot2701 wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

Guys I gave up and remade.

The power of dual wield has corrupted me. It's a night & day difference.

Duncan was dual wield.. I rest my case

If Duncan had shield wall or indomitable the king would still be alive.  But nooo someone has to dual wield.

Lol, funniest thing I've read in awhile.  And makes a good point.

I concur! With both statments!

[Yxiomel]

RamsenC wrote...

Yxiomel wrote...

RamsenC wrote...
Also dual striking does not add double damage, if that were true rogues would be pointless. It does add around 30% more damage, but you give up crits of course.

How do you figure that? You pick up an extra main-hand attack on your off-hand hits, and  vice versa. Since you alternate between hands normally, you have now 2 main hands for every previous one, and vice versa.
"Main-hand then off hand" becomes "main-hand and off-hand then main-hand and off-hand". Surely that is double, or is there something else that happens that isn't published?
You can double haste a dual-wielder, and so while that takes Momentum out, dual is still ahead. The main issue is dual wielding abuses damage bonuses by multi-packeting the damage.

Dual striking combines the speed of both your weapons, you do not hit as fast with both weapons. However, the animation is bugged. It does look like you attack at the same speed, this is why you see animations where nothing happens, no damage no miss no nothing. You also hear a loud whiff sound.

About the runes, you have to consider the best 2h weapons have a 1.25 str modifier and 2h does not need to throw points into dex. With that in mind 2h can def make up for the loss in rune damage. Really the best way to get the most dps out of your DW is to run momentum, haste, and precise striking. This will give you 57% attack speed, which is below the cap. That set up should out dps a 2h warrior by a little bit, but you will still miss out on the stun/knockback immunity and better CC. Also note that 2h will still do more dps against high armor enemies either way.


 

interesting, I will have to look out for that (maybe open it up with the toolset too), I definately felt like I was hitting as fast as my main hand (btw, addiing the times but hitting with both would be no DPS boost at all, you just move the main hand attack, same period).
Based on my (perhaps faulty) assumption that dual striking didn't change swing time, the Str bonuses from 2handers wasn't enough to off-set the difference. Add in multiple runes and weapon spells (say fire and ice) and the difference got huge.
You know what? I think I need to pull DW and Two-handers apart in the tollset to see some of the unpublished stuff for myself.

Anyways, don't get me wrong - I loves Two-handers when I played through first time, Indomitable is awesome for starters. It just doesn't seem quite on par with DW, and thats me playing DW on Nightmare when I played Two-hander on Normal.

Modifié par Yxiomel, 09 décembre 2009 - 03:12 .

[Jsmith0730]

I don't feel 2Hers are really THAT slow. Even coming off a DWer I didn't feel like it was a huge difference...

[Elanareon]

Swift salve

[valis123]

2h vs 2x 1h is gimped yes but to tell you the truth i've never been bothered by it, I like roleplaying 2handed warriors and eventually I'm hitting like a truck now and it's much more fun then a dual wield for me anyway.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

I have both 2handed warrior and a dagger rogue and I strike 5 times with momentium daggers by the time i swing once with the lampost and i deal around 15% less dmg a backstab but 5 times. Runes and enchants are raw numbers, so im doing damage right above sunset in comparison to my 2hander

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 09 décembre 2009 - 03:50 .

[Nitro9a]

Just saw this an hour or so before reading this thread

Weapon Momentum

http://www.damods.co...msg4976#msg4976



Is it cheating? Yes, but I just want to see how cool it looks.

[Oyclo]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

2handed warriors can be very useful if played correctly. My wife, who is a natural at this game, first played a DW rogue, and dished out damage I simply could not belief. But after she played a 2handed warrior noblewoman, I learnt how to use a 2hander more effectively.

Should we take gaming advice from someone who learns how to play from his..wife?