288 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Relgious allegories are overused.

When I see them in a theater I just..............UHHHHHHH.

[CrutchCricket]

Kunari801 wrote...
Marketing speak.   They can make the ends so much better with very little additional details without "changing" the endings.   Yes, as much as I hate it, we'll be subjected to star-brat and the RBG.  However, improved RBG endings and an expanded epilogue with our crew & LI can go a long way.   

Reference the epilogue thread in my sig for an example of using the endings as-is and still improving the ending.  That author even made "Control" almost tollerable for me. 

Well a fanbase divided, if there was ever a more perfect example. Enough people are willing to settle, who gives a **** about the rest?

At least they had to pull out the heavier guns to make us go away...

[Mylia Stenetch]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Relgious allegories are overused.

When I see them in a theater I just..............UHHHHHHH.

Yes they are over-used. but as a whole society does enjoy mysticism, mythology and religion. They were our original works of fiction.

[Devil Mingy]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Relgious allegories are overused.

When I see them in a theater I just..............UHHHHHHH.

Sadly, too much time watching internet videos forced me to think of this when I watched ME3's ending:

http://static.tvtrop..._wtf_genius.jpg

Modifié par Devil Mingy, 02 mai 2012 - 05:26 .

[Taboo]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...
Marketing speak.   They can make the ends so much better with very little additional details without "changing" the endings.   Yes, as much as I hate it, we'll be subjected to star-brat and the RBG.  However, improved RBG endings and an expanded epilogue with our crew & LI can go a long way.   

Reference the epilogue thread in my sig for an example of using the endings as-is and still improving the ending.  That author even made "Control" almost tollerable for me. 

Well a fanbase divided, if there was ever a more perfect example. Enough people are willing to settle, who gives a **** about the rest?

At least they had to pull out the heavier guns to make us go away...

Again, as I've stated before. Bioware will cast as big of net as they can to bring back as many fans as they can.

A happier ending for Shepard and Co would do that.

[leapingmonkeys]

Pulling facts, events, characters out of thin air at the end of a story is not "creative" it is a breach of faith between the writers and the readers. The readers have to rely on what is given to them by the writers during the course of the story. If the writers withhold information and then try to parade it out at the end that is simply being a bad writer. The whole "speculation" thing is just silly - it isn't genius it is simply lazy, incoherent writing which fails to provide relevant and necessary information to the reader.

[CrutchCricket]

**** happens I guess...

[XTR3M3]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Again, as I've stated before. Bioware will cast as big of net as they can to bring back as many fans as they can.

A happier ending for Shepard and Co would do that.

what I don't understand is the push from some people, and BioWare itself,  to prevent a happy or alternate ending. BioWare's could be explained with economics being they might have concluded that a "clarify" DLC was the only thing finacially feasible to them. The others I don't understand. Even if I loved the ending, seeing an alternate ending would be cool. ME was suppose to be about multiple options. I can't see how adding more would be a bad thing.

[Taboo]

XTR3M3 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Again, as I've stated before. Bioware will cast as big of net as they can to bring back as many fans as they can.

A happier ending for Shepard and Co would do that.

what I don't understand is the push from some people, and BioWare itself,  to prevent a happy or alternate ending. BioWare's could be explained with economics being they might have concluded that a "clarify" DLC was the only thing finacially feasible to them. The others I don't understand. Even if I loved the ending, seeing an alternate ending would be cool. ME was suppose to be about multiple options. I can't see how adding more would be a bad thing.

You can do that with clarification and closure.

People have yet to realize that en masse.

[humes spork]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Kurosawa..............is a God.

I've already mentioned him before in threads.

But I can go even further down the hole with minimilism. So much farther.........

Oh, definitely. Taking his body of work as a whole, he's probably my favorite director. Then again, I'm also heavily biased having started undergrad with an eye towards studying east Asian history, specializing in the Sengoku period. I love samurai films.

Anyhow, moving on and changing topics slightly, regarding minimalism and depiction of violence in media I did hit on one thing thinking how to respond to this thread. Ironically, it's been bugging me since the other day when I dug out, of all things, Schindler's List. The thing I always appreciated most about that film's depiction of the Holocaust was that it focused not on the actual atrocities committed but rather the modality and attitude of its execution -- Arendt's banality of evil.

Given the exposition in the game's codex and in game dialog, it's not difficult to draw parallels between the Reapers' conquest and harvest of Earth and the Holocaust. That parallel's been known and kicked around before, to great controversy. How that applies to the level of violence depicted and imagination necessary to fill in the blanks, is honestly I feel there's a critical missing factor in the game's waning hours and that is the depiction of the violence and atrocities committed, to drive home the true nature of the Reapers and their consideration towards organic species'.

...and totally tangentially, Arendt's conclusions in The Origin of Totalitarianism could provide some interesting perspective on the game. ****, I may just end up making a thread about Arendt by the time this is all done. Thinking about it, I'm reasonably sure somebody on BW's writing staff has a real stiffy for Arendt.

[jeweledleah]

XTR3M3 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Again, as I've stated before. Bioware will cast as big of net as they can to bring back as many fans as they can.

A happier ending for Shepard and Co would do that.

what I don't understand is the push from some people, and BioWare itself,  to prevent a happy or alternate ending. BioWare's could be explained with economics being they might have concluded that a "clarify" DLC was the only thing finacially feasible to them. The others I don't understand. Even if I loved the ending, seeing an alternate ending would be cool. ME was suppose to be about multiple options. I can't see how adding more would be a bad thing.

for some people happy ending invalidates every other ending.  kinda like ability to come out of suicide mission casualty free, renders playtrhoughs with casualties?  wrong.

its the min maxing mentality.  adding more options that can be percieved as better, means they have to go back and min max all over again, and their original choice is no longer the "best" one.

[Taboo]

jeweledleah wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Again, as I've stated before. Bioware will cast as big of net as they can to bring back as many fans as they can.

A happier ending for Shepard and Co would do that.

what I don't understand is the push from some people, and BioWare itself,  to prevent a happy or alternate ending. BioWare's could be explained with economics being they might have concluded that a "clarify" DLC was the only thing finacially feasible to them. The others I don't understand. Even if I loved the ending, seeing an alternate ending would be cool. ME was suppose to be about multiple options. I can't see how adding more would be a bad thing.

for some people happy ending invalidates every other ending.  kinda like ability to come out of suicide mission casualty free, renders playtrhoughs with casualties?  wrong.

its the min maxing mentality.  adding more options that can be percieved as better, means they have to go back and min max all over again, and their original choice is no longer the "best" one.

Which is what I mean. They can make certain things trigger if the EMS is High Enough.

[Action Bawstard]

Well done OP :3

[Kunari801]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...
Marketing speak.   They can make the ends so much better with very little additional details without "changing" the endings.   Yes, as much as I hate it, we'll be subjected to star-brat and the RBG.  However, improved RBG endings and an expanded epilogue with our crew & LI can go a long way.   

Reference the epilogue thread in my sig for an example of using the endings as-is and still improving the ending.  That author even made "Control" almost tollerable for me. 

Well a fanbase divided, if there was ever a more perfect example. Enough people are willing to settle, who gives a **** about the rest?

At least they had to pull out the heavier guns to make us go away... 

No we're not "divided" I'm just being a realist on what to expect in the EC.  Yes, I too would love a complete removal of star-brat, but I know they aren't going to remove him so I've "come to terms" with that.   

I fully support letting Shepard bleed out next to Anderson while watching the Crucible activate killing the Reapers and sparing the Geth, EDI, Relays, and Citadel.   I also fully support expanding the "breath" scene to let Shepard live and reunite with crew and LI.  If Shepard dies an expanded epilogue with crew and LI at Shepard's funeral.  After either Shepard fate cinematic, fadeout with a glimpse or two of the galaxy rebuilding.  
In my "head canon" the relays get rebuilt and I'd like to see that official in the EC (it's been hinted) so I hope.  I hope for closure with the crew that I've grown to love and care about.  I hope for a future of the ME universe for me to explore. 

I hope for more ME games with a new cast of characters for us to fall in love with.   No, not hope, I WANT more.  I don't want this to be the end of Mass Effect. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 02 mai 2012 - 05:51 .

[jeweledleah]

Taboo-XX wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Again, as I've stated before. Bioware will cast as big of net as they can to bring back as many fans as they can.

A happier ending for Shepard and Co would do that.

what I don't understand is the push from some people, and BioWare itself,  to prevent a happy or alternate ending. BioWare's could be explained with economics being they might have concluded that a "clarify" DLC was the only thing finacially feasible to them. The others I don't understand. Even if I loved the ending, seeing an alternate ending would be cool. ME was suppose to be about multiple options. I can't see how adding more would be a bad thing.

for some people happy ending invalidates every other ending.  kinda like ability to come out of suicide mission casualty free, renders playtrhoughs with casualties?  wrong.

its the min maxing mentality.  adding more options that can be percieved as better, means they have to go back and min max all over again, and their original choice is no longer the "best" one.

Which is what I mean. They can make certain things trigger if the EMS is High Enough.

the only way this would be ok with min maxers is if Bioware makes these things trigger for all ending choices in some fashion.  aka - keeps all of the choices valid.

if they manage to take the framework of the endings we have and make them work the way dark ritual/heroic sacrifice worked in DAO?  then we may have something that will please vast majority of the fans, oncluding those that don't want the endings changed.

[Taboo]

Yeah, the difference between surviving should be pretty tight though.

Like with 5000 EMS. Anything less and he bleeds out. Bioware IS aware of the EMS issue though.

This one scenario would please so many people.

[XTR3M3]

adding another option does not invalidate options chosen before. Does control invalidate the destroy option? if so, should the destroy option have never been introduced into the game? If that were the case any DLC invalidates any gameplay from the past. the whole point of an alternate would be to increase replay options. I don't want the same ending every time. that would be boring as hell.

[Taboo]

XTR3M3 wrote...

adding another option does not invalidate options chosen before. Does control invalidate the destroy option? if so, should the destroy option have never been introduced into the game? If that were the case any DLC invalidates any gameplay from the past. the whole point of an alternate would be to increase replay options. I don't want the same ending every time. that would be boring as hell.

This has been a major complaint. They know what the issue is.

[jeweledleah]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, the difference between surviving should be pretty tight though.

Like with 5000 EMS. Anything less and he bleeds out. Bioware IS aware of the EMS issue though.

This one scenario would please so many people.

IF they make this EMS possible through single player alone AND allow some leeway for choices in how to aquire it (like for instance - ability to make peace between quarians and Geth even if you rewrote heretics in ME2)

honestly, I'd rather they tied to to completion of certain parameters, then EMS number (for example - ability to save Anderson hinges on ability to pass persuasion checks with TIM in every conversation you have with him through the game)

[ShepnTali]

Kunari801 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...
Marketing speak.   They can make the ends so much better with very little additional details without "changing" the endings.   Yes, as much as I hate it, we'll be subjected to star-brat and the RBG.  However, improved RBG endings and an expanded epilogue with our crew & LI can go a long way.   

Reference the epilogue thread in my sig for an example of using the endings as-is and still improving the ending.  That author even made "Control" almost tollerable for me. 

Well a fanbase divided, if there was ever a more perfect example. Enough people are willing to settle, who gives a **** about the rest?

At least they had to pull out the heavier guns to make us go away... 

No we're not "divided" I'm just being a realist on what to expect in the EC. 
Yes, I too would love a complete removal of star-brat, but I know they aren't going to remove him so I've "come to terms" with that.   

I fully support letting Shepard bleed out next to Anderson while watching the Crucible activate killing the Reapers and sparing the Geth, EDI, Relays, and Citadel.   I also fully support expanding the "breath" scene to let Shepard live and reunite with crew and LI.  If Shepard dies an expanded epilogue with crew and LI at Shepard's funeral.  After either Shepard fate cinematic, fadeout with a glimpse or two of the galaxy rebuilding.  
In my "head canon" the relays get rebuilt and I'd like to see that official in the EC (it's been hinted) so I hope.  I hope for closure with the crew that I've grown to love and care about.  I hope for a future of the ME universe for me to explore. 

I hope for more ME games with a new cast of characters for us to fall in love with.   No, not hope, I WANT more. 

Yeah, had the ending have been, as you say, Shep bleeding out next to Anderson, watching the reapers being destroyed, and say, Shep pulling a small pic of his LI out of a pocket, I'm sure it would have been much more widely accepted.

[Taboo]

jeweledleah wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, the difference between surviving should be pretty tight though.

Like with 5000 EMS. Anything less and he bleeds out. Bioware IS aware of the EMS issue though.

This one scenario would please so many people.

IF they make this EMS possible through single player alone AND allow some leeway for choices in how to aquire it (like for instance - ability to make peace between quarians and Geth even if you rewrote heretics in ME2)

honestly, I'd rather they tied to to completion of certain parameters, then EMS number (for example - ability to save Anderson hinges on ability to pass persuasion checks with TIM in every conversation you have with him through the game)

Much better than I could have said. They could probably tweak some things with an update though like the amount of War Assests something give you......

[oneyedjohn]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Relgious allegories are overused.

When I see them in a theater I just..............UHHHHHHH.

Relgious allegory is just like seasaning, a little will make things taste better, using to much or using the wrong type in the wrong place will make you gag.

as for the your OP, I totaly agree. the movie that reminds me the most of ME3 is children of man. it is about as open and minimalistic about ending as ME3. but with children of man theres is enough back ground info to let the audiance fill in the blakes and kept its themes though out the movie to the end. They Live also had vary loose ending and was briliont for it. 

I think what both movies do that ME3 didn't was show the hero succeeding in there mission, in children of man the hero gets the pressuse cargo to the ship, in they live the alien camo beam is destroyed. we don't know if there worlds can recover form the horrors it has faced or even if the heros servive. but they succesed so there is catharsis. 

I wonder if just showing shepard smile like he did in the first two endings as he activates his ending would make us feel better. because it would let us know we won. not just end the threat.

[LucasShark]

As a great video put it: throwing on a wig and sitting at a piano does not make you Motzart. Simple as that.

[Taboo]

LucasShark wrote...

As a great video put it: throwing on a wig and sitting at a piano does not make you Motzart. Simple as that.

Oh, there's worse things out there.

Believe me.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 02 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[oneyedjohn]

ShepnTali wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...
Marketing speak.   They can make the ends so much better with very little additional details without "changing" the endings.   Yes, as much as I hate it, we'll be subjected to star-brat and the RBG.  However, improved RBG endings and an expanded epilogue with our crew & LI can go a long way.   

Reference the epilogue thread in my sig for an example of using the endings as-is and still improving the ending.  That author even made "Control" almost tollerable for me. 

Well a fanbase divided, if there was ever a more perfect example. Enough people are willing to settle, who gives a **** about the rest?

At least they had to pull out the heavier guns to make us go away... 

No we're not "divided" I'm just being a realist on what to expect in the EC. 
Yes, I too would love a complete removal of star-brat, but I know they aren't going to remove him so I've "come to terms" with that.   

I fully support letting Shepard bleed out next to Anderson while watching the Crucible activate killing the Reapers and sparing the Geth, EDI, Relays, and Citadel.   I also fully support expanding the "breath" scene to let Shepard live and reunite with crew and LI.  If Shepard dies an expanded epilogue with crew and LI at Shepard's funeral.  After either Shepard fate cinematic, fadeout with a glimpse or two of the galaxy rebuilding.  
In my "head canon" the relays get rebuilt and I'd like to see that official in the EC (it's been hinted) so I hope.  I hope for closure with the crew that I've grown to love and care about.  I hope for a future of the ME universe for me to explore. 

I hope for more ME games with a new cast of characters for us to fall in love with.   No, not hope, I WANT more. 

Yeah, had the ending have been, as you say, Shep bleeding out next to Anderson, watching the reapers being destroyed, and say, Shep pulling a small pic of his LI out of a pocket, I'm sure it would have been much more widely accepted.

I would have liked that ending too.