288 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

I was around for the Cannes Antichrist debacle. When Lars refused to answer questions about why things were the way they were people went APE.

I expect that in art cinema but not from a mainstream AAA title.

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

...Gamble just said on Twitter that the EC will answer questions but they will not explain or defend the reasoning for the ending....  

Please Taboo, tell me you aren't the "Happy Nerd Media" person. 

[Cazychel]

The Angry One wrote...

The problem is they should regonise that the ending failed in this regard and work from there.
The fact that they don't, and *still* throw out phrases like artistic integrity and artistic vision is what gives people this impression.

Then of course the sheer arrogance expressed by certain people here, who claim "we don't get it" and that "BioWare should not be brought down to our level" doesn't help either. It's not BioWare, sure. But the fact remains BioWare is appealing to this type of hubris whether they want to or not.

I think that this is most likely the real problem, more than the ending itself. BWs attitude towards every single issue brought up as criticism was hiding under the shelter of "artistic integrety", which crubled faster than you could spell "Rob Liefeld"...

The only one I can still respect (from BWs leading team) is Ray Muzyka, who said that they tried, but had to accept the criticism with humility. I wish they had...

No matter, how many actually disliked the ending: If it caused such an uproar, it has failed. This was not "bashing for the sake of it" or "entitled, childish whining", it was bitter disappointment from loyal fans raging at BW for destroying (moreso for not caring about) what they loved.

BW can most likely do in the EC what they want, if they do not change their attitude or do not have a very big ace up their sleeve, they will satisfy hardly anyone with it.

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

...Gamble just said on Twitter that the EC will answer questions but they will not explain or defend the reasoning for the ending....  

Please Taboo, tell me you aren't the "Happy Nerd Media" person. 

No. I wouldn't annoy Mr. Gamble  like that.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 02 mai 2012 - 10:09 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Very good post OP, I think a huge problem I had with the ending is the fact that Bioware/EA basically gave me the middle finger as an ending, and then their defense of it basically consisted of giving me another middle finger with their other hand...

Having your intelligence insulted is never a good thing....

[Taboo]

Uhhh. I realize that I give the same credence to the Bioware staff that I do to people on set.

Mr. Miss etc. etc.

Weird.

No it's not fun having your intelligence insulted especially when you know said company can do better.

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uhhh. I realize that I give the same credence to the Bioware staff that I do to people on set.

Mr. Miss etc. etc.

Weird.

No it's not fun having your intelligence insulted especially when you know said company can do better.

They don't need to "defend" the ending, just make it palatable.  Like you at this point I'm just trying to keep my hopes grounded to prevent too much disapointment. 

I'm just hoping for closure with my Shepard's crew & LI.   Reunion with LI & Crew (Shep lives) or Shepard's funeral scene (Shep dies).   I'd love a "X years later" scenes showing our crew moving on with babies of their own: Garrus & Tali in her house on Rannoch(sp?), Liara with blue babies, etc.    

Did I want more from the EC?   Yes.   If BW can't even give us acceptable closure then I'll just quit the game after anderson dies and "head canon" the rest. 

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uhhh. I realize that I give the same credence to the Bioware staff that I do to people on set.

Mr. Miss etc. etc.

Weird.

No it's not fun having your intelligence insulted especially when you know said company can do better.

They don't need to "defend" the ending, just make it palatable.  Like you at this point I'm just trying to keep my hopes grounded to prevent too much disapointment. 

I'm just hoping for closure with my Shepard's crew & LI.   Reunion with LI & Crew (Shep lives) or Shepard's funeral scene (Shep dies).   I'd love a "X years later" scenes showing our crew moving on with babies of their own: Garrus & Tali in her house on Rannoch(sp?), Liara with blue babies, etc.    

Did I want more from the EC?   Yes.   If BW can't even give us acceptable closure then I'll just quit the game after anderson dies and "head canon" the rest. 

That's my point. It isn't palatable without hearing about what happened to Shepard and Co. You can do that with "answering questions", clarification and closure.

Had these been in here in the first place quite a bit of this wouldn't have happened.

Weekes has responded to Tweets about why Shepard is breating and that he knows how important characters are.

That at least tells me HE gets it.

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uhhh. I realize that I give the same credence to the Bioware staff that I do to people on set.

Mr. Miss etc. etc.

Weird.

No it's not fun having your intelligence insulted especially when you know said company can do better.

They don't need to "defend" the ending, just make it palatable.  Like you at this point I'm just trying to keep my hopes grounded to prevent too much disapointment. 

I'm just hoping for closure with my Shepard's crew & LI.   Reunion with LI & Crew (Shep lives) or Shepard's funeral scene (Shep dies).   I'd love a "X years later" scenes showing our crew moving on with babies of their own: Garrus & Tali in her house on Rannoch(sp?), Liara with blue babies, etc.    

Did I want more from the EC?   Yes.   If BW can't even give us acceptable closure then I'll just quit the game after anderson dies and "head canon" the rest. 

That's my point. It isn't palatable without hearing about what happened to Shepard and Co. You can do that with "answering questions", clarification and closure.

Had these been in here in the first place quite a bit of this wouldn't have happened.

Weekes has responded to Tweets about why Shepard is breating and that he knows how important characters are.

That at least tells me HE gets it.   

BW gave us a wonderful universe to play in... I hope they will let us continue to play in it.  Even if we can't as our Shepards. 

Though, hope is sometimes hard to hold onto. 

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uhhh. I realize that I give the same credence to the Bioware staff that I do to people on set.

Mr. Miss etc. etc.

Weird.

No it's not fun having your intelligence insulted especially when you know said company can do better.

They don't need to "defend" the ending, just make it palatable.  Like you at this point I'm just trying to keep my hopes grounded to prevent too much disapointment. 

I'm just hoping for closure with my Shepard's crew & LI.   Reunion with LI & Crew (Shep lives) or Shepard's funeral scene (Shep dies).   I'd love a "X years later" scenes showing our crew moving on with babies of their own: Garrus & Tali in her house on Rannoch(sp?), Liara with blue babies, etc.    

Did I want more from the EC?   Yes.   If BW can't even give us acceptable closure then I'll just quit the game after anderson dies and "head canon" the rest. 

That's my point. It isn't palatable without hearing about what happened to Shepard and Co. You can do that with "answering questions", clarification and closure.

Had these been in here in the first place quite a bit of this wouldn't have happened.

Weekes has responded to Tweets about why Shepard is breating and that he knows how important characters are.

That at least tells me HE gets it.   

BW gave us a wonderful universe to play in... I hope they will let us continue to play in it.  Even if we can't as our Shepards. 

Though, hope is sometimes hard to hold onto. 

All I need is that reunion and everything will go away...............I don't even need dialouge.

I'll probably be working by the time they release it too.................<_<

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...
All I need is that reunion and everything will go away...............I don't even need dialouge.

I'll probably be working by the time they release it too.................<_<  

I'd still like more than just a reunion, but if done right, I could accept it.   I still want them to split up the RBG into more acceptable outcomes based on EMS. 

I want to be able to kill the Reapers and still have the Geth & EDI live, even if I had to sacrifice Shepard.  My paragon Shepard would want that. 

I woud like the option to kick out Reapers, even it it's just back to dark space for another 50K years.  We'd have time to prepare.  I don't want to join them, just kick them out and be able to return to my LI and crew.  

I want to be on the Normany with my crew when --if it must-- crash on that fracking jungle planet.  Even if it's just my remains.  I'd know that my crew didn't abandon me. 



Edit: Just realized I switch from "Shepard" use "my".  Does that tell you how connected we got to these characters BW?

Modifié par Kunari801, 02 mai 2012 - 11:14 .

[Taboo]

Hmmm.

Miss Helfer was going in for the EC recording.......that means something post explosions is happening.

Interactive cut scene or something? A lot of people don't consider that gameplay........

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Hmmm.

Miss Helfer was going in for the EC recording.......that means something post explosions is happening.

Interactive cut scene or something? A lot of people don't consider that gameplay........

I'm hoping she's replaceing the star-brat.   Even my distrustful renegade Shepard would trust EDI over Star-Brat.  

I also would not mind EDI voicing an epilogue "Reaper War Memorial" VI.  Explaining the fates of my Shepard & crew.  (assuming they are only bringing back one VO actor) 

Modifié par Kunari801, 02 mai 2012 - 11:26 .

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Hmmm.

Miss Helfer was going in for the EC recording.......that means something post explosions is happening.

Interactive cut scene or something? A lot of people don't consider that gameplay........

I'm hoping she's replaceing the star-brat.   Even my distrustful renegade Shepard would trust EDI over Star-Brat.  

I also would not mind EDI voicing an epilogue "Reaper War Memorial" VI.  Explaining the fates of my Shepard & crew.  (assuming they are only bringing back one VO actor) 

Meer and Hale are coming back regardless and Miss Helfer wouldn't be coming back if it wasn't important..........

[nitefyre410]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Hmmm.

Miss Helfer was going in for the EC recording.......that means something post explosions is happening.

Interactive cut scene or something? A lot of people don't consider that gameplay........

I'm hoping she's replaceing the star-brat.   Even my distrustful renegade Shepard would trust EDI over Star-Brat.  

I also would not mind EDI voicing an epilogue "Reaper War Memorial" VI.  Explaining the fates of my Shepard & crew.  (assuming they are only bringing back one VO actor) 

Meer and Hale are coming back regardless and Miss Helfer wouldn't be coming back if it wasn't important..........

  

And then they annouce the Retake Omega DLC pack...  

That was a joke ... 

I hope 

[Taboo]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Hmmm.

Miss Helfer was going in for the EC recording.......that means something post explosions is happening.

Interactive cut scene or something? A lot of people don't consider that gameplay........

I'm hoping she's replaceing the star-brat.   Even my distrustful renegade Shepard would trust EDI over Star-Brat.  

I also would not mind EDI voicing an epilogue "Reaper War Memorial" VI.  Explaining the fates of my Shepard & crew.  (assuming they are only bringing back one VO actor) 

Meer and Hale are coming back regardless and Miss Helfer wouldn't be coming back if it wasn't important..........

  

And then they annouce the Retake Omega DLC pack...  

That was a joke ... 

I hope 

That would be very foolish, although Bioware's marketing hasn't really been very good lately. The EC is priority though.

[nitefyre410]

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

For me the biggest insult is having played through 3 games and overcoming near impossible odds and in the last 10min you realize everything you fought for is a lie and you're doomed from the start.

You failed the mission, but people herald you as a hero. For what? Indoctrinating an entire galaxy in the green ending? Merging with the reapers to control them in the blue ending? Destroying the reapers and needlessly committing genocide of every synthetics unit in the red ending? Or how about the fact that nearly the entire galaxy goes up in smoke due to Mass Relays exploding and you commit genocide no matter what you decided to do.

If I had known that in the end that Saren and the Illusive Man were right, that Mordin's death meant nothing, that curing the genophage wouldn't matter, that Thane died in vein, and that Legion gave his people free will only to have it torn from them I wouldn't have even bothered with Mass Effect at all.

Robbing the audience of an experience isn't art, it's a crime that unfortunately isn't punishable by law. I don't mind Shepard dying, I saw that coming no matter what I was going to do. I didn't mind if I left my love interest hanging because I lied and never came back for them. I knew this would be a one way trip and thought, well at least the Krogan have a chance, the Geth and Quarians are at peace, Tali has a planet to call home now, and Thane died knowing he did good in the end.

The entire galaxy though going up in smoke? THAT WASN'T WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR! All 3 games made moot in 10min. 5yrs experience, memories, etc went straight to hell in a hand bag in 3 beams of light causing the same effect. It never mattered what I did, who lived, who died, what sacrifices were made, because in the end everything I fought for was killed and destroyed.

What's the point of saving the galaxy if there isn't one to save afterwards?

  

If they were going to that they coud atleast used the reset button properly... which invovles knocking off the main cast before the hero hits the universal reset button.  

All these mistakes really start to make question  if Mac Walters and Casey Hudson had any idea what they were doing or what to do..  It was like this ending came out "thow **** at wall lets  see what sticks.:" 

[Taboo]

Casey Hudson and Mac Walters made an error in judgement that was pretty severe. Throwing **** at the wall and seeing if it sticks rarely works. It can be just as much about hubris as it is about not having enough time.

Regardless of what happens to them this debacle will remain over Bioware's head until the end of days.

[Kunari801]

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

For me the biggest insult is having played through 3 games and overcoming near impossible odds and in the last 10min you realize everything you fought for is a lie and you're doomed from the start.

You failed the mission, but people herald you as a hero. For what? Indoctrinating an entire galaxy in the green ending? Merging with the reapers to control them in the blue ending? Destroying the reapers and needlessly committing genocide of every synthetics unit in the red ending? Or how about the fact that nearly the entire galaxy goes up in smoke due to Mass Relays exploding and you commit genocide no matter what you decided to do.

If I had known that in the end that Saren and the Illusive Man were right, that Mordin's death meant nothing, that curing the genophage wouldn't matter, that Thane died in vein, and that Legion gave his people free will only to have it torn from them I wouldn't have even bothered with Mass Effect at all.

Robbing the audience of an experience isn't art, it's a crime that unfortunately isn't punishable by law. I don't mind Shepard dying, I saw that coming no matter what I was going to do. I didn't mind if I left my love interest hanging because I lied and never came back for them. I knew this would be a one way trip and thought, well at least the Krogan have a chance, the Geth and Quarians are at peace, Tali has a planet to call home now, and Thane died knowing he did good in the end.

The entire galaxy though going up in smoke? THAT WASN'T WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR! All 3 games made moot in 10min. 5yrs experience, memories, etc went straight to hell in a hand bag in 3 beams of light causing the same effect. It never mattered what I did, who lived, who died, what sacrifices were made, because in the end everything I fought for was killed and destroyed.

What's the point of saving the galaxy if there isn't one to save afterwards?

I too want to know that the Relays can be reactivated or rebuilt.  I too want to know the ME universe I was fighting for survived the war (wounded to be sure). 

If we can't get impoved RBG, I also want closure with my crew.  I want to be on the Normany with my crew when --if it must-- crash on that fracking jungle planet.  Even if it's just my remains.  I want to know that my crew didn't abandon me. 

[Sesshomaru47]

Qutayba wrote...

When BioWare is talking about artistic integrity, they're not saying they want to be avant-garde. They wanted the ending to enigmatic, but not opaque. It should still have enough information for the player.

They failed on many levels, and it was a blunder. I don't think there was any intention to be insulting on their part. That doesn't mean you can't be insulted by the fact that they didn't think about it as carefully and critically as other parts of the game show they are capable of doing. But I really don't think they were trying to pull an Andy Warhol.

I think it's more they can't take harsh critisism. Maybe they really thought that half arsed effort was their artistic vision or maybe they thought we were too dumb to relise that it's was what it was. A rushed, disjointed half baked idea and they've been called on it and they don't like it. Artistic integrity....pfff. I think the whole buy DLC add tosses that idea out the window.

[frylock23]

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

For me the biggest insult is having played through 3 games and overcoming near impossible odds and in the last 10min you realize everything you fought for is a lie and you're doomed from the start.

You failed the mission, but people herald you as a hero. For what? Indoctrinating an entire galaxy in the green ending? Merging with the reapers to control them in the blue ending? Destroying the reapers and needlessly committing genocide of every synthetics unit in the red ending? Or how about the fact that nearly the entire galaxy goes up in smoke due to Mass Relays exploding and you commit genocide no matter what you decided to do.

If I had known that in the end that Saren and the Illusive Man were right, that Mordin's death meant nothing, that curing the genophage wouldn't matter, that Thane died in vein, and that Legion gave his people free will only to have it torn from them I wouldn't have even bothered with Mass Effect at all.

Robbing the audience of an experience isn't art, it's a crime that unfortunately isn't punishable by law. I don't mind Shepard dying, I saw that coming no matter what I was going to do. I didn't mind if I left my love interest hanging because I lied and never came back for them. I knew this would be a one way trip and thought, well at least the Krogan have a chance, the Geth and Quarians are at peace, Tali has a planet to call home now, and Thane died knowing he did good in the end.

The entire galaxy though going up in smoke? THAT WASN'T WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR! All 3 games made moot in 10min. 5yrs experience, memories, etc went straight to hell in a hand bag in 3 beams of light causing the same effect. It never mattered what I did, who lived, who died, what sacrifices were made, because in the end everything I fought for was killed and destroyed.

What's the point of saving the galaxy if there isn't one to save afterwards?

Yep, that's a huge part of it for me, too.

I really felt like BioWare sold me a game that in the last 10 minutes kind of said, "Screw you. There's no way to win."

And when I say that, I'm not referring to whether or not Shepard dies. As I've mentioned in other places, I have four Shepards. I expected to have four playthroughs with different endings. Somehow, Dragon Age:Origins managed to give me many different endings and in one of my playthroughs, I sacrificed my Warden and still felt like I won at the end. However, here, no matter which ending I pick, I don't feel like I've won anything. I always feel like I lose. Maybe this is because BioWare tried too hard to balance all the endings so they all carried heavy consequences added into the horrible implications of destroying the relays which happens in every ending on top of the stupid Normandy cut scene. I don't know. I just know that I have no way to win, and that's no way to end the Grand Finale of the series in which your main character triumphs over and over in the face of consistently impossible odds.

[Taboo]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Qutayba wrote...

When BioWare is talking about artistic integrity, they're not saying they want to be avant-garde. They wanted the ending to enigmatic, but not opaque. It should still have enough information for the player.

They failed on many levels, and it was a blunder. I don't think there was any intention to be insulting on their part. That doesn't mean you can't be insulted by the fact that they didn't think about it as carefully and critically as other parts of the game show they are capable of doing. But I really don't think they were trying to pull an Andy Warhol.

I think it's more they can't take harsh critisism. Maybe they really thought that half arsed effort was their artistic vision or maybe they thought we were too dumb to relise that it's was what it was. A rushed, disjointed half baked idea and they've been called on it and they don't like it. Artistic integrity....pfff. I think the whole buy DLC add tosses that idea out the window.

It's short for we ****ed up and can't admit it due to "X".

Needless to say a longer development cycle would have prevented this.

As would common marketing sense.

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Qutayba wrote...

When BioWare is talking about artistic integrity, 

It's short for we ****ed up and can't admit it due to "X".  

It really comes down to what they do in the EC.   I feel my desires for the EC are well grounded and not over-the-top and align with their statements about the EC.  

Modifié par Kunari801, 03 mai 2012 - 12:06 .