288 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

From a marketing standpoint what we would do with a film that has failed this badly is re-cut it and hope for the best.

You can't do that with games but you can add to them. A basic, more palatable ending for Shepard is a wise business choice, simply because people won't care about intellectual faults in four or five months.

[nitefyre410]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From a marketing standpoint what we would do with a film that has failed this badly is re-cut it and hope for the best.

You can't do that with games but you can add to them. A basic, more palatable ending for Shepard is a wise business choice, simply because people won't care about intellectual faults in four or five months.

 

It can be done.. Persona 3: Fes and Persona 4: Golden add a bunch more content to the main story arcs. Hell Person 3 portable added entire Female protaganist for the whole story...  Atlus even did this with first two Persona games and  released them.   I don't mean just add cut scenes... I mean the works.. new sidequest, new characters, new story in the main quest line and added a 30 hr  epligoue to Persona 3... Atlus did  and they are much small less renowend company than Bioware. They did it and their fans were not even asking for changes... they did it because people loved Persona 3  that much and  they wanted to make it better. 
 
It can be done... I just don't thin Bioware has the will to do... this of is not a re-cut in the traditional sense of what you are talking about with film though . 

So if there was on gaming developer I would steer you guys towards it would Altus ..

Modifié par nitefyre410, 03 mai 2012 - 12:18 .

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From a marketing standpoint what we would do with a film that has failed this badly is re-cut it and hope for the best.

You can't do that with games but you can add to them. A basic, more palatable ending for Shepard is a wise business choice, simply because people won't care about intellectual faults in four or five months.

We'll still care, but like you said, emotion > logic.  

If we can get a emotionally satisfactory ending that'll trump the logic. 

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From a marketing standpoint what we would do with a film that has failed this badly is re-cut it and hope for the best.

You can't do that with games but you can add to them. A basic, more palatable ending for Shepard is a wise business choice, simply because people won't care about intellectual faults in four or five months.

We'll still care, but like you said, emotion > logic.  

If we can get a emotionally satisfactory ending that'll trump the logic. 

The thing is is that it's not a new technique or one that is particularly hard to do.

I'm not saying that tricking the audience is always good but it IS far, far better than insulting them openly.

[Kunari801]

I'm really hoping they can add a bit to the London combat mission, like the ME2 suicide mission, give orders to my squads. Even if it's right at the start of the final push:

"X & Y go left flank with Hammer squad 2"
"A & B go right flank with Hammer squad 3"
"C & D protect the civilian refugee shelter"
"E & F you'll be escort for the med-team. Protect them well."
"The rest of you, come with me. Move out!"

Star-Brat:  Fix his logic.

Expand the RBG with more variations (see my previous posts) on EMS opening more choices within the RBG.

Expanded epilogues (see my previous posts) with good closure for my team and LI no matter if Shepard lives or dies.

I don't think any of that is over-the-top for the EC. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 03 mai 2012 - 12:22 .

[Taboo]

Yeah.....I've been talking with Miss Merizan and she seems to be well aware that people just want to be happy.

That's a good sign.

[xsdob]

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off.

This isn't like the clone wars where jar jar binks looks into the camera, smiles, and gives a wink. This was just how they thought the series should end.

And this is both comparable to how die hard star wars fans act, and yet not. The difference being that this fanbase wants the game changed and the star wars fanbase wants it left alone.

[Taboo]

xsdob wrote...

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off.

This isn't like the clone wars where jar jar binks looks into the camera, smiles, and gives a wink. This was just how they thought the series should end.

And this is both comparable to how die hard star wars fans act, and yet not. The difference being that this fanbase wants the game changed and the star wars fanbase wants it left alone.

I think someone pulling the strings has caused the most damage.

Walters and Hudson are on the strings just as much as everyone else at the Bioware Offices.

Sixty thousand people not liking something you make really hurts people, regardless of them showing it or not. Bioware made the BBC News. It's not a joke.

[Kunari801]

xsdob wrote...

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off... 

They may not have intended but they did. 

[nitefyre410]

Taboo-XX wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off.

This isn't like the clone wars where jar jar binks looks into the camera, smiles, and gives a wink. This was just how they thought the series should end.

And this is both comparable to how die hard star wars fans act, and yet not. The difference being that this fanbase wants the game changed and the star wars fanbase wants it left alone.

I think someone pulling the strings has caused the most damage.

Walters and Hudson are on the strings just as much as everyone else at the Bioware Offices.

Sixty thousand people not liking something you make really hurts people, regardless of them showing it or not. Bioware made the BBC News. It's not a joke.

 


When Forbes starts running articles about the upsett  fans... there is a problem a  serious problem. 

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off... 

They may not have intended but they did. 

PR is impersonal, vauge and incredibly insulting.

The repercussions of saying something openly are far worse though.

Look at what happened to the thread about the Bioware Mythic Creative director.

Imagine Casey Hudson released something on video.........the **** that would go down.

[TomY90]

xsdob wrote...

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off.

This isn't like the clone wars where jar jar binks looks into the camera, smiles, and gives a wink. This was just how they thought the series should end.

And this is both comparable to how die hard star wars fans act, and yet not. The difference being that this fanbase wants the game changed and the star wars fanbase wants it left alone.

what you are forgetting is that star wars was never about how the rebellion effects the galaxy (4-6) instead its about the struggle of a group of friends trying to achieve different goals with Han Solo trying to get money where possble and make sure he still survives, whereas Luke etc are trying to make the world a better place by doing all that they can which is fighting the empire.

Star wars the fans were not truly part of the film franchise development, I have never heard of George Lucas going up to his fan base and say 'what would you want to see changed and added to the next film?'

The fan base of star wars have not been part of the creation at any stages except for giving them the success they got (evidence of this is George Lucas constantly changing by "improving" the films, eventhough most of the fans just want it how it is, maybe no Jar Jar Binks (not going to happen) and knowing some fans want Nathalie Portman wearing less in the first 3 films and that is definetly not going to happen.

[xsdob]

TomY90 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Why must everything be taken as a personal insult with fans? They made a decision, it was a bad call, they didn't mean to ****** you off.

This isn't like the clone wars where jar jar binks looks into the camera, smiles, and gives a wink. This was just how they thought the series should end.

And this is both comparable to how die hard star wars fans act, and yet not. The difference being that this fanbase wants the game changed and the star wars fanbase wants it left alone.

what you are forgetting is that star wars was never about how the rebellion effects the galaxy (4-6) instead its about the struggle of a group of friends trying to achieve different goals with Han Solo trying to get money where possble and make sure he still survives, whereas Luke etc are trying to make the world a better place by doing all that they can which is fighting the empire.

Star wars the fans were not truly part of the film franchise development, I have never heard of George Lucas going up to his fan base and say 'what would you want to see changed and added to the next film?'

The fan base of star wars have not been part of the creation at any stages except for giving them the success they got (evidence of this is George Lucas constantly changing by "improving" the films, eventhough most of the fans just want it how it is, maybe no Jar Jar Binks (not going to happen) and knowing some fans want Nathalie Portman wearing less in the first 3 films and that is definetly not going to happen.

All I'm saying is that there are parallels, and that the star wars fans got a much worse deal.

[Kreidian]

I like the OP's comments.

It is, to be frank, horribly annoying, rather insulting, and downright pathetic that people would go to great lengths to defend something which just doesn't need defending.

It Doesn't Matter What BioWare Was Trying To Do With The Ending!

They Failed.

They Messed UP! They made a mistake! They were wrong, and clearly so.

What bothers me most, however, is not that they made a mistake, but that they refuse to even entertain the idea that they could have.

[nitefyre410]

Kreidian wrote...

I like the OP's comments.

It is, to be frank, horribly annoying, rather insulting, and downright pathetic that people would go to great lengths to defend something which just doesn't need defending.

It Doesn't Matter What BioWare Was Trying To Do With The Ending!

They Failed.

They Messed UP! They made a mistake! They were wrong, and clearly so.

What bothers me most, however, is not that they made a mistake, but that they refuse to even entertain the idea that they could have.

 

^This... 

Why can't they be more like Mordin... "I MADE A MISTAKE... have to fix, my mistake, my responsiblity" 

[Cheesy Blue]

^
OP

[Kunari801]

xsdob wrote...

All I'm saying is that there are parallels, and that the star wars fans got a much worse deal.  

You say that like we can't be a fan of both.    There is/was also a bunch of pissed off Star Trek fans about the reboot movie and how it killed Spock's mom and Vulcan (sp?)  There was a bunch of pissed off Firefly fans when FOX canceled the series. You can draw parallels from many other fan bases.  

I fail to see the point in trying to say "They have it worse!" 

Sure I've suffered worse losses in my life too --I lost a parent last year-- that was a much worse losss and took a much longer time to cope with, I still say this issue hurts too.    It hurt me becuase I had become more attached to my Shpard and crew emotionally (more than I knew possible).

So you can say, "They have it worse!" all you like but that doesn't make my pain any less. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 03 mai 2012 - 12:48 .

[RocketManSR2]

nitefyre410 wrote...

^This... 

Why can't they be more like Mordin... "I MADE A MISTAKE... have to fix, my mistake, my responsiblity" 

[Taboo]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

Snip

^
OP

I'm the Gorilla.

[Johcande XX]

Very good, interesting, thought out OP from Taboo.

[Taboo]

But what's next? I have more notes.......

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

But what's next? I have more notes.......

Something with liquor... 

[Taboo]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But what's next? I have more notes.......

Something with liquor... 

That cautionary tale still needs to be told..........

As does the one outlying the possibilities of why this happened........

[eddieoctane]

Kunari801 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
All I need is that reunion and everything will go away...............I don't even need dialouge.

I'll probably be working by the time they release it too.................<_<  

I'd still like more than just a reunion, but if done right, I could accept it.   I still want them to split up the RBG into more acceptable outcomes based on EMS. 

I want to be able to kill the Reapers and still have the Geth & EDI live, even if I had to sacrifice Shepard.  My paragon Shepard would want that. 

I woud like the option to kick out Reapers, even it it's just back to dark space for another 50K years.  We'd have time to prepare.  I don't want to join them, just kick them out and be able to return to my LI and crew.  

I want to be on the Normany with my crew when --if it must-- crash on that fracking jungle planet.  Even if it's just my remains.  I'd know that my crew didn't abandon me. 



Edit: Just realized I switch from "Shepard" use "my".  Does that tell you how connected we got to these characters BW?

1: That's attainable through "clarification". But just saving them and leaving the galaxy at large boned wouldn't appease many people.

2: We are all that connected to the characters. I have to make a conscious effort to say "Shepard" and "the crew" instead of "me" and "my team" all the time. I think a lot of us

No matter what happens, I just want to see the relays remain intact. Beliving the galaxy is somehow better off without the "influence of Reaper technology" just shows how little BioWare's writing staff understands about psychology and engineering. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Developing new tech is not going to happen, not when large pieces of the relays remain, the tech is known to work, and reengineering them is known to be possible. All they did was take the relays away for long enough for those without direct access to agriculture to starve, only for us to rebuild them alter. Terrible logic.

[Kunari801]

I think we have enough Why threads... Cautionary tale sounds good.