87 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

bleetman wrote...

JeffZero wrote...
I still feel relatively pleased with the amount of talking Shepard had to do at the tail end of ME3, anyway, but going Picard on the Reapers would have felt off to me.

It'd hardly be the first time he/she'd told the antagonist to go screw themselves, they're wrong.

Yes, indeed. So I already received an ample dose of it.

@The Angry One:

I'm OK with it as-is. That's all I feel like saying on the matter.

[Roamingmachine]

JeffZero wrote...

I honestly wouldn't have liked it as much in Mass Effect. ME feels a bit more bubblegum than that, but not in a bad way, and not to a really cheesy extent, either. It just... touts the guns a bit more, and has since the start. I still feel relatively pleased with the amount of talking Shepard had to do at the tail end of ME3, anyway, but going Picard on the Reapers would have felt off to me.

And no, with EC factored in, little about ME3's conclusion feels off to me anymore.

ME3's EC conclusion fits perfectly with the series.Poorly written, slapdash in implementation and has more holes than a fishnet stocking. Honestly, the original ending felt right at home too, because the only way to save the god-awful mess that is the plotline is to employ so much magic that the writers qualify for the Hogwarts short bus

Settling for crap on the logic that it could stink even worse is the reason that we get fed crap

[JeffZero]

So uh, why are you here, exactly, Roamingmachine? It sounds like you hate the whole piece.

[Roamingmachine]

Because the forums are far more entertaining than 2 of the 3 games right now. Also, ME1 holds a special place in my heart.That cute, optimistic little puppy who peed on your carpet every now and  then but was, most of the time, consistant    

[The Angry One]

JeffZero wrote...

I'm OK with it as-is. That's all I feel like saying on the matter.

No really. I'm curious as to why anyone can find an antagonist that can't be influenced in any way by the protagonist either verbally or by force to be acceptable.

[Ryzaki]

Seriously you can't even shoot the little bastard without getting pretty much everyone in Shep's cycle killed anymore.

Ugh.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2012 - 04:49 .

[Mr.House]

bleetman wrote...

JeffZero wrote...
I still feel relatively pleased with the amount of talking Shepard had to do at the tail end of ME3, anyway, but going Picard on the Reapers would have felt off to me.

It'd hardly be the first time he/she'd told the antagonist to go screw themselves, they're wrong.

Epic

[v3paR]

Shepard: "Now get the hell out of our galaxy!"
Harbinger: "Muahahahahahahahaha" *crashed with bluescreen and died*

Seriously, you can't say Reapers to GTFO. They are machines stuck in their false logic.

This is nice ending (i knew about the series but didn't saw it all) but the main difference i see here is that those two species were fighting with eachother using younger ones as their cannon fodder. (more or less) And now the cannon fodder said "enough" so they basicaly have no reason to fight (as it seems they don't really want to destroy eachother but have endless war)

In ME we can't refuse Reapers this way and win because they want to kill us not to use us to kill someone else.

We have one enemy so it should be with two choices.
1. agree to starkid and renegade=control / paragon=synthesis
2. disagree and renegade=refusal / paragon=destroy

i used the available options right now. ofc it could be completely different choices. also EMS should be somehow involved.

i just don't want to force on me the Disney ending. so all off them should be optional or result of choices made in all games.

[The Angry One]

v3paR wrote...

Seriously, you can't say Reapers to GTFO. They are machines stuck in their false logic.

Heaven forbid they should be the ancient beings of vast and unknowable intelligence they claim to be and could actually be made to see that they've been perpetuating an obsolete cycle.

[vallore]

The Angry One wrote...

v3paR wrote...

Seriously, you can't say Reapers to GTFO. They are machines stuck in their false logic.

Heaven forbid they should be the ancient beings of vast and unknowable intelligence they claim to be and could actually be made to see that they've been perpetuating an obsolete cycle.

Or that the catalyst could be forced to face the fact that his “logic” was based in a false premise and his actions were entirely pointless.



Babylon 5 had some epic lines that would fit ME perfectly. Just think, Shepard speaking something to the catalyst on those lines, after proving him wrong, like Shepard did in the past with other opponents… it would have been immensely satisfying. Something in the line of this, (but better done):

Catalyst: “you must choose.”

Shepard: “No. I don’t. Your choices are nothing but an answer to a lie. There is no cycle! There never was!”

Catalyst: “You are wrong. There is a cycle. You must choose. It is the only way.”

Shepard: “And what proof do you have of the cycle being true? You don’t have any, do you? You just took the inevitability of it as a premise and never questioned it, didn’t you? You are trying to solve your creators’ problem but never questioned if the problem even existed  in the first place! You never questioned if they were wrong!

Shepard:Your very existent is based on a lie: There is no cycle! You have no function! There is only one logical thing left for you to do.”

Catalyst: (after a long time)”………and that is?”

Shepard: “Get the hell out of my Galaxy!”

[Necrotron]

RShara wrote...

Yeah that type of confrontation would have made sooooooooooooooooooo much more sense. GTFO of our galaxy!
We reject you. We reject what you stand for. Your solution is irrelevant. Our lives are ours!

If only...*sigh*

[Memnon]

Anyone remember the original Fallout, where you could actually convince the Master to commit suicide? Ah ... starbrat ... suicide ...

[Vox Draco]

JeffZero wrote...

Troglyte wrote...

That's because B5 was/is art and ME3 is a consumer product.

Babylon 5 was a consumer product as well. It needed ratings to get advertiser fundings to produce episodes.

True. But as I already mentioned it lead to the conclusion of the Shadow-war eing far more brief and rushed than the authors had planned before.

Yet still they managed to make an ending that feels like a triumph for the heroes and the galaxy, a triumph they achieved on hteir own accounts, by standing together against the overwhelming odds of the ancients.

Of course, if neither of vorlorns or shadows had cared they easily wipe out the entire fleet. But as I see it, for them it was never a war for conquest but for their ideologies. And for them they needed the younger species, to prove they are right and the other wrong. But Sheridan shows them: It doesn't work anymore, the war is pointless now, and both sides actually understand this logic...

With the Reapers however...the ending has one major failure in comparison to B5. Shepard has almost no role in it. It is the catalyst explaining the whoel purpose of the cycle and the reasons why it worked and now no more. Shepard just nods away and then makes a decision...

Sheridan however is the active one, the one in control despite the fact being confronted by overwhelming odds. He stays true to his course, his character and belief. He does not falter at the Vorlorns arguments, and it is HIM that shows the ancients where they went wrong, what will be the consequences if they continue the war, and leaves them with a decision to make, forces it upon them.

Sheridan acts, Shepard merely reacts. Sheridan is in control, Shepard feels like being controlled. Shepard makes a decision forced upon her/him, Sheridan forces the antagonists to choose.

Those are the points that could have made the ME-Ending satisfying, as far as I am concerned