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[Lamepro]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lamepro wrote...

I remember Anders in Dragon Age:Awakening wasn't hiting on men in the game.

Some people saw his banter with Nathaniel as flirting, prior to DAII's release where he was a bisexual LI.

True, but he try so hard to flirt with everyone Dragon Age: Awakening that it annoyed the other characters.

[FaeQueenCory]

Cantina wrote...

I only draw the line when the Anders/Karl relationship is hidden from the female Hawke. Its not about Anders sexuality, its about revealing information into his past. If you reveal such information to a male Hawke and not to a female Hawke, it creates confusion. So, if your male, it happened, but if your female it did not happen. Which is it?!

I think it is that Anders and Merrill (I hate that bigot Fenris too much to ever romance him... so I can't say what he is like) are either gay or straight depending on Hawke's gender; that it is a misnomer to refer to them as "bi".

I feel that the romances in DA2 suited the gender of the Hawke and not that everyone was bi.
Because every playthrough is an alternate universe, universes where Hawke is a woman, Anders is straight.
And universes where Hawke has a penis, Anders likes them.

However, that is not to say that other LIs are not bi. Leliana, Zevran, and Isabela (again, I can't say anything about Fenris) are very clearly bi, this is because being bi/pansexual is a fundamental part of their identy and character backstory.
For Anders and Merrill, they felt more that they were either gay or straight depending on Hawke's gender.
This is especially so with Anders, given how Karl did not happen, should Hawke be a woman.

Alternate universes allow for such things.

[Sutekh]

Lamepro wrote...

True, but he try so hard to flirt with everyone Dragon Age: Awakening that it annoyed the other characters.

And yet, he rejects a female Warden. There's nothing definitive in Awakening regarding Anders's sexual orientation.

---

ReallyRue wrote...

From Origins, for instance, Alistair and Leliana would make sense, but Zevran and Morrigan really wouldn't.

Zevran offers you an earring - twice if you refuse the first time. The second time, it's very clearly a proposal. He's the character who changes the most due to his romance with the Warden. 

---

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Not men, just Nathaniel.

Modifié par Sutekh, 03 mai 2012 - 12:26 .

[Maria Caliban]

Wulfram wrote...

Depends on the character.  I can't say most of the LIs in previous Dragon Age games have particularly seemed like people who'd put a high priority on marriage.

And the writers should probably be aware that it seems like a lot of players would run a mile at the first mention, going by some other discussions.  Though maybe that's just Mass Effect fans.

Someone's never been to the Liara thread.

[Silfren]

I would prefer to keep the all-bi LI option, since that is, I think, the best way to be as inclusive as possible for people of different orientations.

However, I would agree that certain types of content should NOT be closed off. There's no reason why a female Hawke should not know about Anders' past with Karl, basically. I agree that as the game plays out it comes across that Anders is hetero if Hawke is a female, and either gay or bisexual if Hawke is male, but I'm not sure that was really the intention of Bioware, just an unintended subtext that arose from having Anders only reveal that bit of backstory if Hawke is male. For that matter, a female Hawke isn't restricted to only Anders for a LI, so why cut off that interesting bit of character backstory based on Hawke's gender, when it adds so much depth and meaning to Anders story on its own merit?

I do think it would be appropriate to have certain LIs only available based on such things as class, however; it would be make sense for a character with a background similar to Fenris--or Cullen's, for that matter--to be rigidly opposed to a romance with a mage character, even more so if said mage's outlook was completely in line with Anders'.   And of course this would add to the replayability factor.

I agree with TEWR that the friendship/rivalry system should actually reflect the choices the PC has made, instead of defaulting to one of two default assumptions. Especially since various companions can earn you either rivalry or friendship points for reasons not related to their pet cause. Since characters can respond to even minor bits of dialogue, surely there's enough sophistication available for an approval system to recognize actual choices instead of arbitrary defaults.

Modifié par Silfren, 03 mai 2012 - 12:57 .

[Silfren]

Cantina wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And I do think that having romances be tied to race, class, and more importantly choices should happen. If I'm pro-mage yet anti-possession, Anders shouldn't hate me for that and lump me in as a pro-Templar ****. He needs to recognize the distinction.

You know I was wondering this about DA2. I'm planning to play a character who is pro mage but will rival Anders. which I'd never done before, and I was wondering if he'd mention the difference in his questioning beliefs. Based on this, I'm assuming he doesn't?

He doesn't. He thinks you're supporting the Templars, even if you took him on a few pro-mage quests you do.

Some people chalk it up to him being crazy, which works. I just chalk it up to bad implementation of the romance aspect that doesn't recognize the permutations that can exist.

It's why I couldn't Rival Anders anymore and be pro-mage.

Hell, I was tempted to rival romance, Anders just for curiosity. However after digging into it before doing it, I did not like the fact the game did not recognize I was not supporting the Templars. So I threw that idea out the window. Plus to me personally Anders seems happier when your friends with him and I like Anders being happy.

Sides its not like if you rival him the end game changes. I rather be his friend and support him, then be his mother and see him be pissy all the time.

This huge flaw in the friend/rival 'mancing system is one of the more grating issues I have with DA2. Rivaled Anders is somewhat different from his friended incarnation, as the latter is more at one with Justice, and the former has him actively struggling against his friend, on top of him recognizing that Justice is now Vengeance...but rival Anders will ONLY recognize Hawke as anti-mage, even if you played every damn one of the mage quests as pro-mage.

[wsandista]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

wsandista wrote...

 Bi-sexual LI's should have mostly the same romance with either sex.

Why?  

Well I have a few bi friends, but only one of them who I've seen in long-term relationships with both genders. He generally acted the same with a boyfriend as he would with a girlfriend. So I'm basing what I beleive to be the best way to implement a bi-sexual character's treatment of partners to the best first-hand example I know.

I think that having a bisexual character act radically different to a male partner than a female would seem out of character. Merrill seems to feel inferior around a female Hawke, but not a male one for instance. Why would an inferiority complex apply only with a woman, especially one who has the same background, makes the same choices and has an identical personality as her male counter-part?

"Bi-sexual LI's should have mostly the same romance with either sex" was meant as an opinion and preference, not a fact.

Modifié par wsandista, 03 mai 2012 - 02:35 .

[Direwolf0294]

For future discussion I think there needs to be some clarification on the difference between a bi-sexual character and a player sexual character in order to avoid confusion.

Someone like Isabella is bi-sexual. No matter the player character's gender it's established that she has been with both men and women.

Characters like Anders or  Merrill on the other hand are player-sexual. They are either straight or gay depending on the gender of the player character.

If you're advocating the use of player-sexual characters in DA3, that is to say you want all romanceable companions to be romanceable by both genders of player character, then please use the term player-sexual and not bi-sexual, which is something very different.

[Avroseeker]

Well I have been stalking this thread and the first one for two days. But today I’m finally going to throw my hat in…I’ll try not to sound like a broken record. I only romanced Anders, so far. Thus I can only give you my view on that aspect, sorry.
 
I did like how your companions acknowledged your relationship with you LI. Though I found it a tiny bit odd that right after my FHawke did the dirty deed with Anders everyone in the group knew about it instantly. Kind of creepy. But of course I like when Anders actually show concern for his lover’s safety in parts of the game. And when your Hawke dies in battle and he does his “no, don’t be dead!? PLEASE!?” When I first heard that in the game I was like, “aaaawwww he cares.”
 
So I guess what I’m trying to write is that I like the emotion that’s in the relationship, I would have liked there to be more of those tender moments. I did the Legacy DLC in act three and when your Hawke is finished her/his chat with her/his dead mother and the camera zooms out to reveal the stairs. I sort of expected Anders or whoever standing with their arms draped over the railing giving you’re a little smile of encouragement. Or question why you’re talking to yourself.
 
In regarding to seeing sex or fade to black (sorry I know this was awhile back). Well truth be told when the fade to black happened on my first play through I was relived, yet disappointed. I was a bit bummed out that I didn’t get to see anything, since Hawke and Anders were finally taking steps into making a commitment to each other after long three years. The only reason why I was slightly relived about the fade to black was I still live with noisy parents and I thought it would be a little weird if they barged in while the sex scene was on the T.V.
 
On the last note of marriage, I think it would be neat, but having it or not won’t break the game for me.   

Sorry that I'm a bit late to the chat, but I wasn't sure if I should post or not bother.

[wsandista]

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

@Maria caliban
i dont know whats creepier that thread or the Miri one

Liara thread brings creepy to a whole new level

Modifié par wsandista, 03 mai 2012 - 02:48 .

[Darth Krytie]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

For future discussion I think there needs to be some clarification on the difference between a bi-sexual character and a player sexual character in order to avoid confusion.

Someone like Isabella is bi-sexual. No matter the player character's gender it's established that she has been with both men and women.

Characters like Anders or  Merrill on the other hand are player-sexual. They are either straight or gay depending on the gender of the player character.

If you're advocating the use of player-sexual characters in DA3, that is to say you want all romanceable companions to be romanceable by both genders of player character, then please use the term player-sexual and not bi-sexual, which is something very different.

I disagree. They never outright comment on their sexuality at all. So, I don't think it's necessarily true. There are people who have married at eighteen, only have sex with their spouse, and then die who were bisexual. Sexuality is about attraction not the act. I mean...virgins don't consider themselves asexual til they get laid....

Anyhow, irt marriage:

I wouldn't mind marriage in the DA world, but I wouldn't want a wedding. I'd just like "get married" added to the dialogue wheel.  Maybe a kiss and a ring (ala murder knife...where was that being kept?) and then tomorrow, darkspawn.

[Dhiro]

Silfren wrote...

Cantina wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And I do think that having romances be tied to race, class, and more importantly choices should happen. If I'm pro-mage yet anti-possession, Anders shouldn't hate me for that and lump me in as a pro-Templar ****. He needs to recognize the distinction.

You know I was wondering this about DA2. I'm planning to play a character who is pro mage but will rival Anders. which I'd never done before, and I was wondering if he'd mention the difference in his questioning beliefs. Based on this, I'm assuming he doesn't?

He doesn't. He thinks you're supporting the Templars, even if you took him on a few pro-mage quests you do.

Some people chalk it up to him being crazy, which works. I just chalk it up to bad implementation of the romance aspect that doesn't recognize the permutations that can exist.

It's why I couldn't Rival Anders anymore and be pro-mage.

Hell, I was tempted to rival romance, Anders just for curiosity. However after digging into it before doing it, I did not like the fact the game did not recognize I was not supporting the Templars. So I threw that idea out the window. Plus to me personally Anders seems happier when your friends with him and I like Anders being happy.

Sides its not like if you rival him the end game changes. I rather be his friend and support him, then be his mother and see him be pissy all the time.

This huge flaw in the friend/rival 'mancing system is one of the more grating issues I have with DA2. Rivaled Anders is somewhat different from his friended incarnation, as the latter is more at one with Justice, and the former has him actively struggling against his friend, on top of him recognizing that Justice is now Vengeance...but rival Anders will ONLY recognize Hawke as anti-mage, even if you played every damn one of the mage quests as pro-mage.

That's because every Rivalry/Friendship is built around a theme. Anders' theme is, of course, the plight of the mages. Of course, there is a flaw in that everytime you're mean to Anders for any reason, it adds to his Rilvary, even if the reason why he got R-points was not related to Mages at all.

[Cantina]

I have to agree going as far as a marriage ceremony would be too much. However if marriage fits around that type of companion, I can see a proposal option being in the dialogue wheel.

When the DLC "Legacy" was over, I assumed "OK, since I romanced Anders, I'm sure we should talk about what happened." But I was sadden to see no such option was opened. Here's hoping down the road they add an option in DLCS. 

[Iakus]

Cantina wrote...

I have to agree going as far as a marriage ceremony would be too much. However if marriage fits around that type of companion, I can see a proposal option being in the dialogue wheel.

I agree.  Depending on teh LI it could fit quite well.  A noble, upright LI who always wants to do the right thing might want to get married, even if it's some quickie ceremony done spur of the moment with a Chantry sister or dalish Keeper.

While more free-spirited and independant minded LIs might actually take offense at the very notion.

[dracuella]

As regards marriage I'm neither pro or con. I would not opt to marry in the game myself as it's something I've always associated with 'the end' ("Cinderella and the prince go married and they lived happily everafter") and I have great antipathy against good things ending

However, upon playing DA:O I often came across the 'Wedding Mod' where the PC marries Alistair and it made me realise it's something a lot of people really wanted to do.

So, I think, if there is sentiment, go for it. Just make it an option

[Maria Caliban]

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

@Maria caliban
i dont know whats creepier that thread or the Miri one

I don't find romance threads creepy.

wsandista wrote...

I think that having a bisexual character act radically different to a male partner than a female would seem out of character.

I don't think there's a character trait that's out of character for all possible characters. Some people relate to men and women the same way while others relate to them in different ways.

Darth Krytie wrote...

Sexuality is about attraction not the act.

That's one model of sexuality, yes, but it's hardly the only one.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 mai 2012 - 08:15 .

[FDrage]

As long as it is not done too much aka nearly every party member being a romance option in one way or shape. I rather not find an "interesting romance" option then having tooo many. As long as they are interesting, it doesn't necessary have to be interesting for me and the possibility is there.
Overall it just makes the "gaming world" seem a bit more real that way

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I don't want a simulation of a growing romance through extended interaction/gift exchange/what-have-you. Just write a love story and let me view it. This can include dialog, and it can include multiple options for the romantic interest. I'm saying I don't want it to be a mini-game, of any kind.

It seems to me that almost everyone interested in these romantic intersts as DA mini-games.

You mean like FFVIII,IX and X ? Looking at how it works in various games, you would probably need to have the LI worked into the plot and as the only option. Unless I outright hated them, I always prefer that option over the "mini game" as you call it.

[Wulfram]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Someone's never been to the Liara thread.

I have.  But I said "a lot", not "all".

[AkiKishi]

Bioware romances are far too easy.


Star Ocean: Fantastic Space Odyssey/First Departuredata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit

• Affection ratings are linear and fairly easy to build up
  
  
• Pickpocketing people in towns outside of Private Action mode can randomly cause one party member to lose one affection point toward another random party member. Likewise, if, when in PA mode, you pickpocket a party member and you fail (i.e. they catch you), they may lose -1 affection point toward Roddick.
  
  
• The Super Specialty Contraband can cause one party member to lose an affection point toward another random party member (about a 50% chance). There is no way to avoid this, unlike Pickpocketing.
  
  
• Fighting bosses as a party increases AR toward each member in the active party by one point.
  
  
• If any of the "optional" party members (Cyuss, Ashlay, Ioshua, Mavelle, Erys, T'nique, Pericci, Phia, Welch) have a high AR toward Roddick, they will say something to Roddick before they jump back into the time gate at the end. If Cyuss has a high enough AR, he will challenge Roddick to a last duel, and winning or losing changes nothing except the dialog at the end.
  
  
• The Super Specialty Publication allows party members to publish a book that will set the affection rating of whomever in the party reads it toward the author to 8
  
  
• The possible "paired endings" are: Cyuss + Phia, Ronyx + Ilia, Ioshua + Mavelle, Ioshua + Erys. All of these can be achieved by both of the characters in their respective pairs having 9+ AR toward each other (with the exception of the Ronyx + Ilia ending which requires some prerequisite PAs).
  
  
• If the AR between Ronyx, Ilia, and Millie somehow decreases, a special ending can be seen if Ilia and Roddick have 9+ AR toward each other.
  
  
• If every party member (Ilia, Ronyx, Millie, and the optional characters you recruited, which has to include a combination of any three from these: Cyuss, Ashlay, Ioshua, Mavelle, Erys) all have 9+ AR toward Roddick (Roddick does not need 9+ AR toward them, though), a special epilogue can be seen after the credits.

[*]Theres an example of something a bit more involved than just picking from a list.Heres an even more complex one.

http://uk.faqs.ign.c.../1054216p1.html Don't suggest going quite that far, although in a game with a static location like DA2 it could probably work.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 03 mai 2012 - 09:43 .

[Wulfram]

If romances aren't "easy", they tend to end up being gamey. And that's not good.

[whykikyouwhy]

Marriage isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all commitment for a lot of folks, though that isn't to say that a commitment between a couple does not exist. It just may not be viewed as "the right thing to do" or even the natural progression of a relationship. While I am not opposed to the idea of including some kind of ceremony in a game (I really don't care either way), I think it might be better to incorporate some mention of the commitment itself - something to qualify the dedication to one another between the two characters.

Besides, if Denerim hasn't been properly rebuilt after the fight with the Archdemon, that would mean that The Wonders of Thedas would no longer be available for gift registries.