276 réponses à ce sujet

[Storm258]

mrufka_z wrote...
1.With Cipher in his head, Shepard has pretty good base to understand all things Prothean. He even understands the language.

2.Anybody else could have saved Shepard's body. It was BW, who picked Liara. And not because she was the only possible character to do it...

1. So? Being an expert on something and understanding a language are two completely different things.

2. Liara was the best choice for this. As I've said before, I think it's obvious that Liara falls in love with Shepard, no matthe if Shep returns these feelings or not. So she would do all those things to save him/her, while it could get more unrealistic if it was a different character.

[ComfortablyNumb]

TheDonk95 wrote...
First of all, the made her the most beautiful character in the serie,

What this even mean? And if you reply please remember, that any beauty is in the eye of beholder.

[flexxdk]

Seriously? People reply with "I hate you" while the OP states his opinion?

Stay classy, people. There is such a thing as "different opinions", even if it sounds extremely strange and weird.

Even when someone makes a thread about how he / she liked the ending of ME3, such posts do not pop up...

Modifié par Whacka, 02 mai 2012 - 09:36 .

[Kalundume]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

She wasn't bioware's flagship romance, or at least I don't think she was.

Who was the female on the cover of ME1? Ashley. Who was in the promotional trailers? Ashley. Who was the first character you "recruit"? Ashley. Who played an incredibly vital part in Virmire? Ashley. Which theme plays during the love scene? The theme after Kaidan/Ashley dies (possibly bioware just being lazy and re-using a theme, but for me it makes the moment with Ash so much better as its a reminder how close she was to dieing.)

The problem with Ashley in future games? She could be killed.
Why does Liara play such a big role? Because she can't be killed.

My theory is Liara isn't supposed to be the flag ship romance, but rather her pivotal role in the series is simply a consequence that she can't be killed of.

If you're developing content for a game, are you going to make content 100% of people will see or only 10% of people will see? In an ideal world you'd have both, but that simply isn't a reality.

My major bug bear is how many missions Liara HAS to come on, the VS roles were interchangable, so they could've at least got their own mission as well.

Ashley has one major problem: incurable xenophoby ... and that alone "kills" her candidature for a "cannon" LI.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Storm258 wrote...

2. Liara was the best choice for this. As I've said before, I think it's obvious that Liara falls in love with Shepard, no matthe if Shep returns these feelings or not. So she would do all those things to save him/her, while it could get more unrealistic if it was a different character.

So... Liara is the best choice because she's is the best choice? Sure, makes sense...

[Storm258]

Kalundume wrote...
Ashley has one major problem: incurable xenophoby ... and that alone "kills" her candidature for a "cannon" LI.

Yep, she really gets this taste of real racism at some points in the game. And I don't like this "tough army girl" stuff, so Liara was my choice in ME 1 anyways.

[quickitsbob]

mrufka_z wrote...

Storm258 wrote...
Imagine Liara isn't in the games. Then
Shepard would have to be a prothean expert somehow. He would have to
somehow magically save himself from death or save his corpse from the
Shadow Broker and Blue Suns to beam it to Cerberus and so on.

1.With Cipher in his head, Shepard has pretty good base to understand all things Prothean. He even understands the language.

2.Anybody else could have saved Shepard's body. It was BW, who picked Liara. And not because she was the only possible character to do it...

1:knowing the language is different than knowing the prothean society itself. Liara knows the cultural context of the protheans.
2: Liara was the only one of the ME1 crew who didn't really have any other responsibilities (ash and kaidan were still in the alliance, Garrus went to C-Sec, Tali had to finish her pilgramage, Wrex had to unite the Urdnot clan)  so it makes sense that she was the one who could rescue shep.
 

[FJVP]

Storm258 wrote...

Kalundume wrote...
Ashley has one major problem: incurable xenophoby ... and that alone "kills" her candidature for a "cannon" LI.

Yep, she really gets this taste of real racism at some points in the game. And I don't like this "tough army girl" stuff, so Liara was my choice in ME 1 anyways.

This is something that I never understood. Why do you say that Ashley is racist? For saying that she initially doesn't trust Garrus and Wrex and having legitimate reasons for doing so? Is that why so many people hate her? I don't get it.

Modifié par FJVP, 02 mai 2012 - 09:41 .

[ComfortablyNumb]

quickitsbob wrote...
1:knowing the language is different than knowing the prothean society itself. Liara knows the cultural context of the protheans.
2: Liara was the only one of the ME1 crew who didn't really have any other responsibilities (ash and kaidan were still in the alliance, Garrus went to C-Sec, Tali had to finish her pilgramage, Wrex had to unite the Urdnot clan)  so it makes sense that she was the one who could rescue shep.

1.Actually, she knows close to nothing, as is proven by Javik.

2.And none of them would spare a moment to save Shepard, given a chance? Allow me to disagree. Especially Garrus.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

nuculerman wrote...

And even then, if you let all Asari die, Liara wouldn't jump off a cliff.

I propose we test this theory; it's the only way to know for sure.

[Storm258]

mrufka_z wrote...

Storm258 wrote...
2. Liara was the best choice for this. As I've said before, I think it's obvious that Liara falls in love with Shepard, no matthe if Shep returns these feelings or not. So she would do all those things to save him/her, while it could get more unrealistic if it was a different character.

So... Liara is the best choice because she's is the best choice? Sure, makes sense...

*facepalm*
Read it again. She was the best choice for this because it is obvious she has strong feelings for Shepard, no matter if Shep returns these feelings or not. She would go through all this to save him/her. Ashley/Kaidan wouldn't work cause they could already be dead. Garrus and Tali are no Li options in ME1 and wouldn't seem as natural in this position as their conncetion to Shepard isn't as big yet, and Wrex isn't exactly the secret undercover mission type, is he?

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Storm258 wrote...

mrufka_z wrote...

Storm258 wrote...
2. Liara was the best choice for this. As I've said before, I think it's obvious that Liara falls in love with Shepard, no matthe if Shep returns these feelings or not. So she would do all those things to save him/her, while it could get more unrealistic if it was a different character.

So... Liara is the best choice because she's is the best choice? Sure, makes sense...

*facepalm*
Read it again. She was the best choice for this because it is obvious she has strong feelings for Shepard, no matter if Shep returns these feelings or not. She would go through all this to save him/her. Ashley/Kaidan wouldn't work cause they could already be dead. Garrus and Tali are no Li options in ME1 and wouldn't seem as natural in this position as their conncetion to Shepard isn't as big yet, and Wrex isn't exactly the secret undercover mission type, is he?

Who's to say it has to be a squadmate at all? It could just be a Cerberus operative.

[Storm258]

FJVP wrote...
This is something that I never understood. Why do you say that Ashley is racist? For saying that she initially doesn't trust Garrus and Wrex and having legitimate reasons for doing so? Is that why so many people hate her? I don't get it.

Oh, I don't hate Ashley, and I didn't say she is racist, just that she sometimes brings that taste along. I like Ashley, but just not as an LI.

[Storm258]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Who's to say it has to be a squadmate at all? It could just be a Cerberus operative.

Then the "supporting character" part (which Liara takes in the games) wouldn't work any more.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Look we all understand the women hierarchy in this game lets just admit it.

Femshep is number 1
Then Tali
Then Eve
Then Samara
Kelly Chambers
Liara
The dirt
Ashley Williams

And then you have the untouchables (Chobot and and daughter of Samara that no one cares about)

[ComfortablyNumb]

Storm258 wrote...

*facepalm*
Read it again. She was the best choice for this because it is obvious she has strong feelings for Shepard, no matter if Shep returns these feelings or not. She would go through all this to save him/her. Ashley/Kaidan wouldn't work cause they could already be dead. Garrus and Tali are no Li options in ME1 and wouldn't seem as natural in this position as their conncetion to Shepard isn't as big yet, and Wrex isn't exactly the secret undercover mission type, is he?

So basically you're saying that only a ME1 LI could have strong enough connection to Shepard to save her/him? That's pretty big assumption.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Storm258 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Who's to say it has to be a squadmate at all? It could just be a Cerberus operative.

Then the "supporting character" part (which Liara takes in the games) wouldn't work any more.

Isn't that the point?

[Vigil_N7]

Kalundume wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

She wasn't bioware's flagship romance, or at least I don't think she was.

Who was the female on the cover of ME1? Ashley. Who was in the promotional trailers? Ashley. Who was the first character you "recruit"? Ashley. Who played an incredibly vital part in Virmire? Ashley. Which theme plays during the love scene? The theme after Kaidan/Ashley dies (possibly bioware just being lazy and re-using a theme, but for me it makes the moment with Ash so much better as its a reminder how close she was to dieing.)

The problem with Ashley in future games? She could be killed.
Why does Liara play such a big role? Because she can't be killed.

My theory is Liara isn't supposed to be the flag ship romance, but rather her pivotal role in the series is simply a consequence that she can't be killed of.

If you're developing content for a game, are you going to make content 100% of people will see or only 10% of people will see? In an ideal world you'd have both, but that simply isn't a reality.

My major bug bear is how many missions Liara HAS to come on, the VS roles were interchangable, so they could've at least got their own mission as well.

Ashley has one major problem: incurable xenophoby ... and that alone "kills" her candidature for a "cannon" LI.

She was starting to come around by the end of ME1 if you paragon'd her, and besides her xenophobia never stemmed from ignorance

[Krunjar]

I have never finished romancing ashly but to accuse her of racism for some light xenophobia seems ... silly. Lot's of people are xenophic to one degree or another it's fear of the unknown it's part of the human condition and though it should be faught anyone who pretends they don't have it is talking out of their heiny. Yeah shes a bit more free with it than most but I always thaught of her as an Ideal candidate for a Renegade LI. I just can't get the hang of being Renegade tho I wanna be nice to people and I end up getting too many paragon points.

As for Liara honestly I don't see the problem with someone who speaks honestly about attraction/desire for a relationship etc. I mean everyones different in that regard some women seem to prefer a long subtle seduction and some prefer to discuss feelings frankly. Along with a whole black whole full of other things they like and do. From my perspective you seem to call Liara a Sl*t for not acting like a frigid ice queen till she finally melts 5 minutes before you land on Illos. Which is how ash's romance in ME1 felt to me.

Note this isn't an zomg i love liara how dare you! post. I just think you are a bit butthurt because bioware screwed up the other LI's which to be frank they did and I feel sorry for you because of it. But hey thems the breaks. And theres nothing wrong with Liara

[Storm258]

mrufka_z wrote...
So basically you're saying that only a ME1 LI could have strong enough connection to Shepard to save her/him? That's pretty big assumption.

I'm saying that it works better for the story. And that you need some kind of supporting character in a good narrative, as the protagonist cannot drive the story forward all alone. That's Liara's part in ME, and this is why she can't die until the end. So it's only natural that she is the one to bring Shepard back, her strong feelings for him/her are only an additional reason.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Storm258 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
Who's to say it has to be a squadmate at all? It could just be a Cerberus operative.

Then the "supporting character" part (which Liara takes in the games) wouldn't work any more.

That's the point - there is no reason that it HAD to be Liara, who saved Shepard's body.

[ThatDancingTurian]

You know who could have easily saved Shepard's body? Joker. Guilt is a powerful motivator.

[Storm258]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Isn't that the point?

It is, but you wouldn't want a story like Mass Effect without a supporting character. Believe me, if you're a writer, you know about this stuff.

[The_Other_M]

Ultra Prism wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Thanks for your feedback!

I concur

I concur as well.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Storm258 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Isn't that the point?

It is, but you wouldn't want a story like Mass Effect without a supporting character. Believe me, if you're a writer, you know about this stuff.

Joker and Anderson are as much (if not more so) supporting characters as Liara. I was connected to the story completely while doing my best to ignore her very existence. She really isn't that necessary.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 02 mai 2012 - 09:52 .