276 réponses à ce sujet

[4stringwizard]

Pretty much agreed on all points. This has been talked about a lot already. Bioware pretty much shoved Liara down our throats and gave her "plot armor". The attitude of many Liara fanboys/girls doesn't really help either. At least, the attitude of the vocal ones.

And, as I've said already, she wouldn't be nearly as popular as she is if she wasn't a perfect sex fantasy for male gamers.  

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 02 mai 2012 - 09:53 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Storm258 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Isn't that the point?

It is, but you wouldn't want a story like Mass Effect without a supporting character. Believe me, if you're a writer, you know about this stuff.

We got through ME2 without Liara just fine.

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Joker and Anderson are as much (if not more so) supporting characters as Liara.

That must be why they forcibly invaded my flashback too...

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 02 mai 2012 - 09:56 .

[FOX216BC]

Kalundume wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

She wasn't bioware's flagship romance, or at least I don't think she was.

Who was the female on the cover of ME1? Ashley. Who was in the promotional trailers? Ashley. Who was the first character you "recruit"? Ashley. Who played an incredibly vital part in Virmire? Ashley. Which theme plays during the love scene? The theme after Kaidan/Ashley dies (possibly bioware just being lazy and re-using a theme, but for me it makes the moment with Ash so much better as its a reminder how close she was to dieing.)

The problem with Ashley in future games? She could be killed.
Why does Liara play such a big role? Because she can't be killed.

My theory is Liara isn't supposed to be the flag ship romance, but rather her pivotal role in the series is simply a consequence that she can't be killed of.

If you're developing content for a game, are you going to make content 100% of people will see or only 10% of people will see? In an ideal world you'd have both, but that simply isn't a reality.

My major bug bear is how many missions Liara HAS to come on, the VS roles were interchangable, so they could've at least got their own mission as well.

Ashley has one major problem: incurable xenophoby ... and that alone "kills" her candidature for a "cannon" LI.

You guys...

[CrazyRah]

The best thing with threads like this one is the hilarious reactions from all the Liara fanboys/girls. It's pure gold

[Joeybsmooth4]

Volc19 wrote...

OH GOD, I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE. She is insufferable, I can barely stand her being on my ship, let alone on my squad. She's the only one that throws a tantrum after her world is lost, and starts blaming Javik for being honest (or just being a Prothean if he isn't brought along). Garrus was distressed, but still held it together. Vega only got angry about Earth, while the VS seems to not really care. Javik's race has been dead for 50,000 years, their worlds burnt to glass, and he only desires revenge. Even Tali only killed herself because her people went extinct in a matter of minutes. It's just her, Liara "Oh woe is me" T'soni, the physically beautiful century old nerdy blue space babe who is also the Shadow Broker, that is freaked out at her species' respective husk and the loss of her homeworld.

I always found myself bringing Javik with me whenever I had to bring her with me due to story/tactical reasons. If Shep can't be mean to Liara, then I'll let Javik do it for me.

I don't see how you can give Tali and James a pass, but not Liara. Hell in fact Shep acted more down in the dumps than Liara did after that missing .  I mean what is worse crying about losing your world are KILLING YOUR SELF ABOUT , or crying about it , then wanting to attack your CO over it .

Garrus is Soldier, Shep is a Soldier. Javik is a Soldier.   Javik talks about letting weaker races die so they can have more times of reapers , and guess what he wants to kill himself as well.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Storm258 wrote...
her strong feelings for him/her are only an additional reason.

Of all of my Sheps (+10 by now probably?), only one romanced Liara (sneaky first time playthrough). After this, all of them (male and felame alike), avoided her as much as they could. So it makes no sense whatsoever to assume she would have any sort of connection, when they don't even talk. Is she so masochistic, that after 3 years of renegade replies she's still infatuated with me? Even if, she should keep this to herself, because it's just not healthy.
This is where my problems come from. I don't mind her being in the lab or in Miranda's cabin. But she's not my friend, so I can't stand her trying acting like one.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Nonoru wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

PistolPete7556 wrote...
]

Hating Leliana is like hating ice cream. It just doesn't happen

I hate ice cream with a passion.

You can't hate on all flavors, can you ?

I just don't like frozen sugar water, no matter the flavor. Its too sweet, too cold and it coats my teeth with a thick layer of sugar.
And after the third food poisoning from bad ice cream I started to hate it.

[4stringwizard]

CrazyRah wrote...

The best thing with threads like this one is the hilarious reactions from all the Liara fanboys/girls. It's pure gold

If they don't like it, they can always stick to their "blue babies" threads.  

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 02 mai 2012 - 09:59 .

[Grimwick]

4stringwizard wrote...

Pretty much agreed on all points. This has been talked about a lot already. Bioware pretty much shoved Liara down our throats and gave her "plot armor". The attitude of many Liara fanboys/girls doesn't really help either. At least, the attitude of the vocal ones.

And, as I've said already, she wouldn't be nearly as popular as she is if she wasn't a perfect sex fantasy for male gamers.  

Sure, because everyone makes their opinions on characters based purely from their looks... <_<

[rgretret]

4stringwizard wrote...

CrazyRah wrote...

The best thing with threads like this one is the hilarious reactions from all the Liara fanboys/girls. It's pure gold

If they don't like it, they can always stick to their "blue babies" threads.  

It is our right to defend Liara. ^^

[flexxdk]

4stringwizard wrote...

CrazyRah wrote...

The best thing with threads like this one is the hilarious reactions from all the Liara fanboys/girls. It's pure gold

If they don't like it, they can always stick to their "blue babies" threads.  

Ouch.

But anyway, I love how some of them say "I respect different opinions!" (SPECULATIONS!) up until they see "I hate Liara!", at which point they go "I hate you". Because you're VERY respectful when you say that!

Modifié par Whacka, 02 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[Storm258]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Joker and Anderson are as much (if not
more so) supporting characters as Liara. I was connected to the story
completely while doing my best to ignore her very existence. She really
isn't that necessary.

Joker is no supporting character at all, he doesn't drive the story forward, only the ship.
Anderson has an important role, but he is less present in the games and his role isn't absolutely necessary to the story, even though it might seem to you like this.

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
We got through ME2 without Liara just fine.

Yes, because Shepard ended up with Cerberus. And why is that? Liara.

mrufka_z wrote...
Of all of my Sheps (+10 by now probably?), only one romanced Liara (sneaky first time playthrough). After this, all of them (male and felame alike), avoided her as much as they could. So it makes no sense whatsoever to assume she would have any sort of connection, when they don't even talk. Is she so masochistic, that after 3 years of renegade replies she's still infatuated with me? Even if, she should keep this to herself, because it's just not healthy.
This is where my problems come from. I don't mind her being in the lab or in Miranda's cabin. But she's not my friend, so I can't stand her trying acting like one.

I don't know how much experience you got with love, but it doesn't work like this. Fall in love someone and the feeling isn't returned - many people, many different reactions to this, but more than enough would act like Liara, try to get the attention, doing anything for the loved one and so on. Rejecting her doesn't mean she would suddenly loose her feeling or give up on Shepard.



It's getting late her, good night.

Modifié par Storm258, 02 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[alec1898]

Whacka wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

CrazyRah wrote...

The best thing with threads like this one is the hilarious reactions from all the Liara fanboys/girls. It's pure gold

If they don't like it, they can always stick to their "blue babies" threads.  

Ouch.

But anyway, I love how some of them go "I respect different opinions!" up until they see "I hate Liara!", at which point they go "I hate you". Because you're VERY respectful when you say that!

You're only "open minded" until someone attacks your own predilections.

[ComfortablyNumb]

rgretret wrote...
It is our right to defend Liara. ^^

But what's the point? We're not going to change our minds anyway

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Storm258 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
We got through ME2 without Liara just fine.

Yes, because Shepard ended up with Cerberus. And why is that? Liara.

But the point was already made there was no reason that it had to be Liara who did that...

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 02 mai 2012 - 10:06 .

[Storm258]

mrufka_z wrote...

rgretret wrote...
It is our right to defend Liara. ^^

But what's the point? We're not going to change our minds anyway

You won't change our minds as well. So what's the point  to complain about it in the first place?

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
But the point was already made that it didn't have to be Liara who did that...

Some else might have made this point. I explained why I see it differently, why it had to be Liara, so this is no argument.

Modifié par Storm258, 02 mai 2012 - 10:07 .

[General Skidog]

WOW.

Ok, as sad as i am to profess my hate for a fictional character on the internet, what does that say about the people who genually found my OPINION offensive?.

I don't care if you like Liara or not, everyone has differnent preferences, i like Jack, she gets alot of hate, i don't care. (if you fools can't handle her effing epicness, thats your loss, you don't deserve her)

...JK!!!...

but serriously, she a badass, deal with it.

But everyone thinks that about their chosen LI. We're entilted to share and debate our opinion.

My main gripe is how BioWare play faviorites with Liara, if you like Liara then good for you! You hit the jackpot.

But for players like me who don't like her and chose a ME2 LI, BioWare have basically said 'Hey, you didn't chose Liara?... thats your LOSS! You chose the wrong LI hahahahahahahaha. Your punishment is a crappy LI sub plot!"

"awwww, you like Thane?... NOPE he dead! he got killed by the worst baddie EVER!"

"you like Jacob?... NOPE he ran off with another woman and impreginated her! You lose!

"You like Jack... NOPE heres a 2 minute scene with her! enjoy it while you can! Bacause your never going to see her again! LOL you should have picked Liara, shes the right LI, you lose!"

I didn't know there was a right or wrong LI option BioWare. So why play favorites?

Anyone who is a Mass Effect fan should agree with this, weather you're a Liara fan or not...

[Yorkston9152]

4stringwizard wrote...

Pretty much agreed on all points. This has been talked about a lot already. Bioware pretty much shoved Liara down our throats and gave her "plot armor". The attitude of many Liara fanboys/girls doesn't really help either. At least, the attitude of the vocal ones.

And, as I've said already, she wouldn't be nearly as popular as she is if she wasn't a perfect sex fantasy for male gamers.  

yes because no one has ever run into a female gamer who went with Liara......


no really, there are no such things as female gamers

<.<

>.>

[flexxdk]

Storm258 wrote...
Rejecting her doesn't mean she would suddenly loose her feeling or give up on Shepard.

I wish she would though, even if it doesn't work like that. Obsessions aren't very healthy... (it is an obsession, right?)

alec1898 wrote...
You're only "open minded" until someone attacks your own predilections.

 
You make a very good point there. I believe we can all agree to that.

Modifié par Whacka, 02 mai 2012 - 10:09 .

[Storm258]

Whacka wrote...
I wish she would though, even if it doesn't work like that. Obsessions aren't very healthy... (it is an obsession, right?)

Of some kind, yes. Even though you could argue that a happy, returned love still involves a kind of obsession to another person.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Storm258 wrote...

Joker is no supporting character at all, he doesn't drive the story forward, only the ship.
Anderson has an important role, but he is less present in the games and his role isn't absolutely necessary to the story, even though it might seem to you like this.

I couldn't disagree more. Anderson is as present in the games as Liara. Major plot character in ME1 and ME3 with only a cameo in ME2. Joker is very much a plot character in ME2, which handily picks up the slack for Anderson. Joker is the only person who is with you from start to finish in every single game regardless of choice.

Liara has only one undisputable plot point that only she can account for and that's her mind-meld with Shepard. Like Shiala, she didn't even need to be a full squadmate in order to do that. Anything and everything else she's done in plot could have easily been done by anyone else. She doesn't fill some special role in the narrative.

[sistersafetypin]

The Angry One wrote...

Thanks for your feedback!

But, Cool story bro

[Storm258]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Joker is the only person who is with you from start to finish in every single game regardless of choice.

If this is supposed to be an argument, then you don't understand what is the purpose of a supporting character.

But this is not that important now, as I said, good night, it's getting late here.

Modifié par Storm258, 02 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[Grimwick]

General Skidog wrote...

WOW.

Ok, as sad as i am to profess my hate for a fictional character on the internet, what does that say about the people who genually found my OPINION offensive?.

But everyone thinks that about their chosen LI. We're entilted to share and debate our opinion.

My main gripe is how BioWare play faviorites with Liara, if you like Liara then good for you! You hit the jackpot.

But for players like me who don't like her and chose a ME2 LI, BioWare have basically said 'Hey, you didn't chose Liara?... thats your LOSS! You chose the wrong LI hahahahahahahaha. Your punishment is a crappy LI sub plot!"

"awwww, you like Thane?... NOPE he dead! he got killed by the worst baddie EVER!"

"you like Jacob?... NOPE he ran off with another woman and impreginated her! You lose!

"You like Jack... NOPE heres a 2 minute scene with her! enjoy it while you can! Bacause your never going to see her again! LOL you should have picked Liara, shes the right LI, you lose!"

I didn't know there was a right or wrong LI option BioWare. So why play favorites?

Then why post threads hating on the character when it is Bioware's fault there is such 'favouritism' (I still argue Garrus gets as good a deal as Liara). What Bioware did with the ME2 romances is awful and I fully support those trying to get them improved... but hating on a character for reasons outside of the character is unfair.

Also it doesn't matter if it is your opinion or not, it can still be offensive - especially if it is laced with snipes at fans of Liara.

[Lamepro]

Yorkston9152 wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Pretty much agreed on all points. This has been talked about a lot already. Bioware pretty much shoved Liara down our throats and gave her "plot armor". The attitude of many Liara fanboys/girls doesn't really help either. At least, the attitude of the vocal ones.

And, as I've said already, she wouldn't be nearly as popular as she is if she wasn't a perfect sex fantasy for male gamers.  

yes because no one has ever run into a female gamer who went with Liara......


no really, there are no such things as female gamers

<.<

>.>

Tell that to the female gamers on Youtube that were ranting about Mass Effect 3.