282 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

You can't debunk something just by saying it's debunked. You have to actually present some sort of evidence that contradicts it.

[ME 3]

tbh i don't believe in the IT, i understand and respect people who do, but i just don't see it as being planned.
BIOWARE: We released an incomplete game...

[Atakuma]

ME 3 wrote...

tbh i don't believe in the IT, i understand and respect people who do, but i just don't see it as being planned.
BIOWARE: We released an incomplete game...

Ugh, was that last part really necessary?

[Icemix]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

I post this thread to remind everyone that whenever an Indoc Theorist is trying to assert that IT is true, you don't have to look for evidence against the theory. The burden of proof is always on the one who's making the claim, and in this case the IT theorists are always the ones who are making that claim. And so far I've seen only speculations.

What is actual evidence?

Samples of actual evidence:
1. Official documents confirming the "theory".
2. A video clip with a Bioware developer saying that IT is correct.

3. A DLC that illustrates the whole story using IT.
     and so on....

I encourage you not to answer the IT theorists anything unless they give actual evidence instead of
speculations. Until they give official evidence instead of far-fetched speculations, none of us should be convinced.


To IT theorists: If you want to post your lists of "reasons" here, please first prove their credibility. What are the sources? Has any Bioware official supported your reason?

Don't think too highly of yourself - no one has to answer to you. You ask an indoctrination theorist to provide evidence for it being true, and you get an equal and opposite response:

1. Official documents confirming the "theory" is NOT True 
2. A video clip with a Bioware developer saying that IT is NOT correct. 

3. A DLC that illustrates the whole story NOT using IT.
     and so on.... 

I've said it before and I'lll say it again:

Those who think IT is true = speculating
Those who think IT is false = also speculating


If you argue that you're NOT speculating, then provide me with proof. /endthread

False, we are not speculating anything. The ending is what it is, if you have any kind of common sense you would know that IT is not plausible.
Bioware stated that they did plan to include indoctrination in the game, but they didn't manage to make it work, so it was scrapped. You don't need anymore proof than the creators of the game proving that its not true.

[ME 3]

yes because assuming bioware confirm that the IT was correct, it would technically mean they released a game with no ending

[Atakuma]

ME 3 wrote...

yes because assuming bioware confirm that the IT was correct, it would technically mean they released a game with no ending

No, it would mean they released a game with an ambiguous ending and then ruined it's ambiguity.

[Cadence of the Planes]

Icemix wrote...



False, we are not speculating anything. The ending is what it is, if you have any kind of common sense you would know that IT is not plausible.
Bioware stated that they did plan to include indoctrination in the game, but they didn't manage to make it work, so it was scrapped. You don't need anymore proof than the creators of the game proving that its not true.

Link to the official article or announcement which backs your claims? I'm not just going to take your word for it. Remember, a fact has some basis in reality.


Also, just because people think IT is true doesn't mean they lack common sense.

But then again, how dare they disagree with you?

I mean, really, the nerve.

Modifié par Cadence of the Planes, 03 mai 2012 - 05:20 .

[Cadence of the Planes]

ME 3 wrote...

yes because assuming bioware confirm that the IT was correct, it would technically mean they released a game with no ending

I've had enough of your disingenuous assertions *SMACK*

[SlyTF1]

ME 3 wrote...

yes because assuming bioware confirm that the IT was correct, it would technically mean they released a game with no ending

Yeah, and so did Bethesda. Anyone remember that game Skyrim? It was basically unendable.

[Cadence of the Planes]

http://social.biowar.../index/11842140

[UnstableMongoose]

VampireSoap wrote...


I am a science student in the university of Berkeley. And I can tell you I have done a lot of mathematics, but I'm not sure if all of them are on "reasonable" level. I will only say this to you, I need NOTHING to disprove something that has NOT been proven yet.

Freshman alert. Or maybe a soft science major. 

[dreman9999]

ME 3 wrote...

tbh i don't believe in the IT, i understand and respect people who do, but i just don't see it as being planned.
BIOWARE: We released an incomplete game...

But they did release an incomplete game.

[Foxhound2121]

dreman9999 wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What do you mean by "the ending was speculation"?

It came straight from the horse's mouth.

please, clarify.

because te developers and writers said so.

No, the devs said they wanted the end to speak for itself and they can't tell more because EC is coming up...That was from Pax.

Where did you think "speculation for everyone" came from? Did you think it was a phrase that BSN plucked from the sky? It was a quote from the developers.

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 03 mai 2012 - 05:54 .

[dreman9999]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What do you mean by "the ending was speculation"?

It came straight from the horse's mouth.

please, clarify.

because te developers and writers said so.

No, the devs said they wanted the end to speak for itself and they can't tell more because EC is coming up...That was from Pax.

Where did you think "speculation for everyone" came from? Did you think it was a phrase that BSN plucked from the sky? It was a quote from the developers.

Speculation for everyone came for the last hour app. Regardless, I'm still going by what the devs stated in pax...Being that we don't know what will happen with EC.

[Cadence of the Planes]

Still no links with official announcements.


/thread-debunked

[DonYourAviators]

proof = evidence?

[harrier25699]

SlyTF1 wrote...

ME 3 wrote...

yes because assuming bioware confirm that the IT was correct, it would technically mean they released a game with no ending

Yeah, and so did Bethesda. Anyone remember that game Skyrim? It was basically unendable.

You can't compare the storytelling of Skyrim and Mass Effect, the difference is like cave man scribbles and da vinci sketches.

[AlanC9]

Foxhound2121 wrote...
Where did you think "speculation for everyone" came from? Did you think it was a phrase that BSN plucked from the sky? It was a quote from the developers. 

Could you produce the quote in context? If it's the one I'm thinking of, they weren't saying what you say they were saying.

[Fiery Phoenix]

VampireSoap wrote...

(...)

To IT theorists: If you want to post your lists of "reasons" here, please first prove their credibility. What are the sources? Has any Bioware official supported your reason?

If I see a car passing by my street, I see a car passing by my street. If I say "I saw a car passing by the street", that is an objective statement about an observation I have just made. On the other hand, if I say "I saw a car passing by the street; I think it was my brother's friend's car, because it looked like it," then that is speculating, and a likely biased one at that.

Based on the objective evidence of the ending and happenstance of events thereof, I have concluded that the ending, as it stands, is completely and utterly contradictory to just about everything the series has stood for up to that point. This is not speculating; this is observed evidence through the eyes of a person who has played through the first two games all the way through ME3's ending. Up to this point, I have not proposed or claimed anything; I've only made a credible, non-biased, straight observation.

As a result of the above, I have proceeded to believe that BioWare may have intended such a thing as the Indoctrination Theory. Now, I will agree with you that I'm starting to approach speculation territory at this point. And I will wholeheartedly concede that I have no objective evidence to support my claim as an IT theorist. However, neither do you - you think you have evidence to disprove IT but you really don't have any more evidence than I do. Remember the phrase, "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

What we *do* know is something is going on with the ending, and that something is the Extended Cut. Anything beyond that remains speculation, no matter how fancy it is. BioWare themselves have been incredibly vague in regards to detailing the nature of this content. Please don't make it sound like anti-IT'ers are any more "right" than their counterpart, because both sides are equally "right" or "wrong", take your pick.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 03 mai 2012 - 06:31 .

[AlanC9]

Atakuma wrote...

You can't debunk something just by saying it's debunked. You have to actually present some sort of evidence that contradicts it.

Note that this makes IT un-debunkable until the EC ships. The premise of IT is that everything we're seeing is the endgame is a lie except for maybe those couple of seconds at the end of the alternate red ending. Since the premise of IT is that the game itself is lying to us, there's no possible evidence to disprove the theory.

[SynheKatze]

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

You can't debunk something just by saying it's debunked. You have to actually present some sort of evidence that contradicts it.

Note that this makes IT un-debunkable until the EC ships. The premise of IT is that everything we're seeing is the endgame is a lie except for maybe those couple of seconds at the end of the alternate red ending. Since the premise of IT is that the game itself is lying to us, there's no possible evidence to disprove the theory.

And that's why this whole argument is useless.

[The Edge]

I believe that the IT is true. I admit that I can't "prove" it, but it makes the ending (IMO) more enjoyable and not as terrible as is at face value.

If I had no previous experience with ME, the ending of ME3 would be fine.

After playing through the entire series, however, the choices presented are simply too jarring to be part of the same series. I won't recount everything that I have issues with, but to accept the ending as is I must ignore previous experience or accept new elements that were introduced at the last second. These things, IMO, make the ending complete crap.

The IT is the ending's saving grace to me. There is alot of circumstancial evidence (speculation!) that "backs up" the notion, but again, I admit, it's circumstancial. That doesn't make it any less valid. on one hand, you can agree accept the ending's as is; on the other hand, you can say the ending is a hoax. Until Bioware confirms either or (which I highly doubt for the sake of "preserving speculation"), both camps are justified to a degree.

Edited to clena out spoilers 

Modifié par The Edge, 03 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[Foxhound2121]

dreman9999 wrote...


Speculation for everyone came for the last hour app. Regardless, I'm still going by what the devs stated in pax...Being that we don't know what will happen with EC.

Nothing said at Pax changes the original design philosophy until EC comes out. Ray Masuka announcement was and ending dlc that woud bring closure. It doesn't change the fact that the original ending was speculation and designed for that purpose. The weeks twitter and Jessica Merizan twitter embolden it further by making it obvious that things are not what they seem in the ending.

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 03 mai 2012 - 06:38 .

[AlanC9]

SynheKatze wrote...
And that's why this whole argument is useless.

That never stopped us before.