282 réponses à ce sujet

[Icemix]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

Still no links with official announcements.


/thread-debunked

Ah found it, it was from the iOS app "Final Hours".
And as for complaints that the game's three endings don't provide enough variety? As late as November, the developers were considering at least one drastically different ending that was eventually scrapped. The sequence would have seen the player lose control of Commander Shepard, revealing that he or she had actually been indoctrinated by the Reapers. This ending was eventually cut for technical reasons, as the team was having a hard time making the gameplay mechanic work alongside dialogue choices.

Here is a spoon to eat your words with.

ops forgot the link 
http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/ 

Modifié par Icemix, 03 mai 2012 - 06:49 .

[AlanC9]

Just to put my own marker down here, I don't think IT was intended by Bioware. That doesn't really matter, though, since I don't have any serious problem with Bio adopting the theory as a retcon.

The problem I see is that unless the EC is radically upscaled from what's been announced already, implementing IT will make the endings worse, not better. I don't consider a future paid DLC that would really end the game to be a viable strategy for Bioware.

[VampireSoap]

Wow...didn't expect I would get so many replies.

Here are the things that I want to say:

1. For those of you who like to compare this to a case, I will only say this, an "evidence" that has not been acknowledged by the court is no evidence at all. Circumstantial, direct, or whatever. Just forget it. Until Bioware comes out and confirms your "Shepard's blue eyes leading to indoctrination", those are all just speculations.

2. As for the people who are still asking me to provide evidence. You need to know only two things: Russell's teapot and Occam's Razor

3. Finally, for those who enjoy mocking me personally, please enjoy yourselves while you can. If it makes you feel better, why not? I've got more information for you to make fun of me. I am an atheist. I like cats. My major is physics and applied mathematics. I dated the most beautiful woman in the world and she dumped me...Well, I can't think of more at the moment, but if you like, just imagine something say, imagine that I kissed a gorilla. I mean, why not? Go ahead and enjoy yourself, I've always appreciated humor.:happy:

Modifié par VampireSoap, 03 mai 2012 - 06:59 .

[RyuujinZERO]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

If you argue that you're NOT speculating, then provide me with proof. /endthread

You fail at logic. How can someone prove they're NOT doing something? - That's not how burden of proof works >.<

"I am NOT robbing a bank right now"
"Prove it!"

[Icemix]

VampireSoap wrote...

Wow...didn't expect I would get so many replies.

Here are the things that I want to say:

1. For those of you who like to compare this to a case, I will only say this, an "evidence" that has not been acknowledged by the court is no evidence at all. Circumstantial, direct, or whatever. Just forget it. Until Bioware comes out and confirms your "Shepard's blue eyes leading to indoctrination", those are all just speculations.

2. As for the people who are still asking me to provide evidence. You need to know only two things: Russell's teapot and Occam's Razor

3. Finally, for those who enjoy mocking me personally, please enjoy yourselves while you can. If it makes you feel better, why not? I've got more information for you to make fun of me. I am an atheist. I like cats. My major is physics and applied mathematics. I dated the most beautiful woman in the world and she dumped me...Well, I can't think of more at the moment, but if you like, just imagine something say, imagine that I kissed a gorilla. I mean, why not? Go ahead and enjoy yourself, I've always appreciated humor.:happy:

You don't believe in a old guy that hangs around in the clouds, and that he created everything we know out of his ass in 7 days?
How dare you!

Modifié par Icemix, 03 mai 2012 - 07:05 .

[VampireSoap]

Icemix wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Wow...didn't expect I would get so many replies.

Here are the things that I want to say:

1. For those of you who like to compare this to a case, I will only say this, an "evidence" that has not been acknowledged by the court is no evidence at all. Circumstantial, direct, or whatever. Just forget it. Until Bioware comes out and confirms your "Shepard's blue eyes leading to indoctrination", those are all just speculations.

2. As for the people who are still asking me to provide evidence. You need to know only two things: Russell's teapot and Occam's Razor

3. Finally, for those who enjoy mocking me personally, please enjoy yourselves while you can. If it makes you feel better, why not? I've got more information for you to make fun of me. I am an atheist. I like cats. My major is physics and applied mathematics. I dated the most beautiful woman in the world and she dumped me...Well, I can't think of more at the moment, but if you like, just imagine something say, imagine that I kissed a gorilla. I mean, why not? Go ahead and enjoy yourself, I've always appreciated humor.:happy:

You don't believe in a old guy that hangs around in the clouds, and that he created everything we know out of his ass in 7 days?
How dare you!

Do you mind if I tell you that I like you?

[harrier25699]

VampireSoap wrote...

2. As for the people who are still asking me to provide evidence. You need to know only two things: Russell's teapot and Occam's Razor

That's rather arrogant.

[Icemix]

 Oh and for the people that still thing it was not debunked at PAX, well them saying that they have such an imaginative community its pretty much, "Its not true, but its nice to see that you guys have such an imagination".
Seriously, common sense people.

[VampireSoap]

harrier25699 wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

2. As for the people who are still asking me to provide evidence. You need to know only two things: Russell's teapot and Occam's Razor

That's rather arrogant.

No, I wasn't being arrogant when I said that, I was merely hoping that people could know more about logic. But I am arrogant most of the time.

[Icemix]

VampireSoap wrote...

Icemix wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Wow...didn't expect I would get so many replies.

Here are the things that I want to say:

1. For those of you who like to compare this to a case, I will only say this, an "evidence" that has not been acknowledged by the court is no evidence at all. Circumstantial, direct, or whatever. Just forget it. Until Bioware comes out and confirms your "Shepard's blue eyes leading to indoctrination", those are all just speculations.

2. As for the people who are still asking me to provide evidence. You need to know only two things: Russell's teapot and Occam's Razor

3. Finally, for those who enjoy mocking me personally, please enjoy yourselves while you can. If it makes you feel better, why not? I've got more information for you to make fun of me. I am an atheist. I like cats. My major is physics and applied mathematics. I dated the most beautiful woman in the world and she dumped me...Well, I can't think of more at the moment, but if you like, just imagine something say, imagine that I kissed a gorilla. I mean, why not? Go ahead and enjoy yourself, I've always appreciated humor.:happy:

You don't believe in a old guy that hangs around in the clouds, and that he created everything we know out of his ass in 7 days?
How dare you!

Do you mind if I tell you that I like you?

I AM BEING SERIOUS! But that old guy, always seems to need more money. Damn for the creator of everything, he sure is poor.

[VampireSoap]

Icemix wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Do you mind if I tell you that I like you?

I AM BEING SERIOUS! But that old guy, always seems to need more money. Damn for the creator of everything, he sure is poor.

Stop...:lol:

[RyuujinZERO]

Icemix wrote...

I AM BEING SERIOUS! But that old guy, always seems to need more money. Damn for the creator of everything, he sure is poor.

6 days... he had a timeout on day 7, we're now up to day 1,460,000 (+=730k) according to some folks and he doesn't seem to have gotten back to work... does he still get paid for that time?
 

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 03 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[VampireSoap]

Can't have enough...

http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

"And as for complaints that the game's three endings don't provide enough variety? As late as November, the developers were considering at least  one drastically different ending that was eventually scrapped. The sequence would have seen the player lose control of Commander Shepard, revealing that he or she had actually been indoctrinated by the Reapers. This ending was eventually cut for technical reasons, as the team was having a hard time making the gameplay mechanic work alongside dialogue choices."

Listening to Beethoven with my eyes closed.

Modifié par VampireSoap, 03 mai 2012 - 07:29 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

AlanC9 wrote...

Just to put my own marker down here, I don't think IT was intended by Bioware. That doesn't really matter, though, since I don't have any serious problem with Bio adopting the theory as a retcon.

The problem I see is that unless the EC is radically upscaled from what's been announced already, implementing IT will make the endings worse, not better. I don't consider a future paid DLC that would really end the game to be a viable strategy for Bioware.

IT has a lot of similarties to the blockbuster film Inception. Indoctrination has been foreshadowed so much in the ME trilogy that it makes the most sense. We also had day 1 DLC so charging for additional ending DLC isn't implausible though I suspect  they probably would have made it free but just charged for the other DLC (all in an effort to prolong interest in ME3).

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 03 mai 2012 - 07:38 .

[macrocarl]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Yes. Have you looked at all the stuff people have found to support the theory? Seen all the pictures posted etc.? It's a theory not gospel. Don't sweat it.

He was being pedantic - in academic terms, Indoctrination Theory is a hypothesis.

The hypothesis has not been formally tested or reviewed and therefore is not a theory... strictly speaking it's not even a hypothesis, because the points put forward by the author of the "theory" are untestable (Short of bioware formally confirming or denying it, there is no way to gather data in support of, or to refute the claims made).

But, it is pedantics *shrug*



Once the EC comes along that'll be as good as confirmation/refutation...

So wading through footage and codexes of lore and matching them all up isn't testing? I mean I get what you're saying but other than reading every dang codex and then finding in game cinematics and dialog to support IT how much more can we do? I'm serious. What would be a better method? Anyway, theory, hypothesis, flim flam, I don't care what peopel call it! It's still fun

[VampireSoap]

macrocarl wrote...

So wading through footage and codexes of lore and matching them all up isn't testing? I mean I get what you're saying but other than reading every dang codex and then finding in game cinematics and dialog to support IT how much more can we do? I'm serious. What would be a better method? Anyway, theory, hypothesis, flim flam, I don't care what peopel call it! It's still fun

So that's it. Isn't it? You believe in something because you LIKE it. OK....

And I'm glad that you talked about your own method of finding out the "truth". It seems that you did everything almost every theist did in the history of mankind ------ you "wade through" history and pick the facts that kinda associated to your "theory"....and then discard everything else.

Sorry, it's just not how science works.

[RyuujinZERO]

macrocarl wrote...

So wading through footage and codexes of lore and matching them all up isn't testing? I mean I get what you're saying but other than reading every dang codex and then finding in game cinematics and dialog to support IT how much more can we do? I'm serious. What would be a better method? Anyway, theory, hypothesis, flim flam, I don't care what peopel call it! It's still fun

It is testing; of a sort. The question is whether the data you can garner from those sources is sufficient to convince a peer review board.  In practice, it is not - the very fact we're even having this discussion proves that much   (opinion is strongly divided even amongst the laymen population... and a science review board is MUCH more critical). 

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 03 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[MakeMineMako]

While I find the Indoctrination Theory to be clever, I don't think it' s the route Bioware intended to take.

But I can half-way believe in another "Indoctrination Theory" regarding the endings:






:innocent:

[KosakNZ]

VampireSoap wrote...

1. For those of you who like to compare this to a case, I will only say this, an "evidence" that has not been acknowledged by the court is no evidence at all. Circumstantial, direct, or whatever. Just forget it. Until Bioware comes out and confirms your "Shepard's blue eyes leading to indoctrination", those are all just speculations.

The problem with this is it works both ways. Until Bioware confirms that the face value interpretation of the ending is real, and all the plot holes and things hinting at unreality were unintended, then you cannot say that ending is the correct interpretation either. After all no evidence has been acknowledged by the "court" yet, for any position.

[Binary_Helix 1]

VampireSoap wrote...

Can't have enough...

http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

"And as for complaints that the game's three endings don't provide enough variety? As late as November, the developers were considering at least  one drastically different ending that was eventually scrapped. The sequence would have seen the player lose control of Commander Shepard, revealing that he or she had actually been indoctrinated by the Reapers. This ending was eventually cut for technical reasons, as the team was having a hard time making the gameplay mechanic work alongside dialogue choices."

Listening to Beethoven with my eyes closed.

Doesn't this support IT? It was obviously considered and rejected in that form  but it doesn't mean the idea was scrapped entirely.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 03 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[Kairi Hawke]

Only bioware can confirm if IT is true or not and until they say its wrong then theory still plausible. Just my opinion though no need to spread it around.

[Icemix]

Kairi Hawke wrote...

Only bioware can confirm if IT is true or not and until they say its wrong then theory still plausible. Just my opinion though no need to spread it around.

They already confirmed that its not true. Srsly, do you even bother to read any of the stuff posted in this thread before you post?

[VampireSoap]

KosakNZ wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

1. For those of you who like to compare this to a case, I will only say this, an "evidence" that has not been acknowledged by the court is no evidence at all. Circumstantial, direct, or whatever. Just forget it. Until Bioware comes out and confirms your "Shepard's blue eyes leading to indoctrination", those are all just speculations.

The problem with this is it works both ways. Until Bioware confirms that the face value interpretation of the ending is real, and all the plot holes and things hinting at unreality were unintended, then you cannot say that ending is the correct interpretation either. After all no evidence has been acknowledged by the "court" yet, for any position.

But I am not the one who's making the claim, I am dismissing the claim. And it is not an either/or question. Whether the ending is as it appears to be does not have any impact on the credibility of IT at all. The fact is, there are many, many other interpretations, and that both the ending interpretation and IT can be wrong. Even if the EC shows that the ending is not what it seems to be still doesn't necessary make IT right.

The false dilemma fallacy is one of the most comman types of fallacy.

[Binary_Helix 1]

VampireSoap wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

So wading through footage and codexes of lore and matching them all up isn't testing? I mean I get what you're saying but other than reading every dang codex and then finding in game cinematics and dialog to support IT how much more can we do? I'm serious. What would be a better method? Anyway, theory, hypothesis, flim flam, I don't care what peopel call it! It's still fun

So that's it. Isn't it? You believe in something because you LIKE it. OK....

And I'm glad that you talked about your own method of finding out the "truth". It seems that you did everything almost every theist did in the history of mankind ------ you "wade through" history and pick the facts that kinda associated to your "theory"....and then discard everything else.

Sorry, it's just not how science works.

Interpretation is not like hard science. All this debate matches the realm of social science where you take a position and support it with evidence.

I'm an atheist myself and the reason people bellieved in God for so long wasn't evidence or lack there of but because the human mind has a hard time grasping that well this is it. Since most people lived in pretty horrible conditions for most of existence that wasn't really something they wanted to consider.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 03 mai 2012 - 08:37 .

[The Smoking Man]

VampireSoap wrote...

and in your case, you've got tons of equally or more plausible explanations, good luck dismissing them all.

And the same logic would apply equally to all explanations of similar or greater plausibility, making this not an argument that serves to dismiss IT, at least not to any degree greater than for said other explanations.

My take on it is to treat Indoctrination Theory as its name says it is. Unless BW releases more content that either continues to strengthen or dismiss the case for IT, it's merely an interesting piece of theorycrafting. And if BW doesn't release more content, then it really doesn't even matter whether IT is true or not because we don't get to see the outcome of it.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 03 mai 2012 - 08:35 .