Make Shepard's living matter in the Red Ending (>5000 EMS) and I'll consider it.
If Extended Cut is awsome with a side of epic, is Bioware and Mass Effect redeemed to you?
Débuté par
The Invisible Commando
, mai 03 2012 09:55
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:31
d1ta
-
- Members
- 1 148 messages
I DO hope that the EC will delivers because honestly I really (desperately *_*) want to fall in love with ME3 and its universe all over again, like how they made me fell in love with ME1 and ME2 
And IF somehow they manage to do just that then of course, I'd more than willing to buy DLC's (for SP content only <.< I don't play MP..)
However, I will probably not pre-order again. Better wait it out a bit, lurk on the forums and do a bit of research of what other players think about said game. I have no ill will against Bioware, just preventing my self from getting heart broken like now.
And IF somehow they manage to do just that then of course, I'd more than willing to buy DLC's (for SP content only <.< I don't play MP..)
However, I will probably not pre-order again. Better wait it out a bit, lurk on the forums and do a bit of research of what other players think about said game. I have no ill will against Bioware, just preventing my self from getting heart broken like now.
#28
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:32
Robhuzz
-
- Members
- 4 976 messages
Difficult to say. BioWare was able to come up with that abomination and so far they've done nothing but ignore the true problems with it. They haven't apologized for lying to us, they haven't even acknowledged that the ending is garbage, or even that there are problems with it. The only problem with the ending (in BioWare's eyes) is that it lacks closure and clarity.
This said, to learn from your mistakes you must first admit that you made them. BioWare has done nothing of the sort. So why should I expect they'll do better next time when all they can do is ignore the mistakes they made? They'll simply do this again and again until they finally get it or EA shuts them down. Mass Effect might be redeemed by a good EC but my trust in BW is gone. At least up to the point that I will not pre order their games any more, nor be swayed by 'professional' reviews. Instead waiting to buy their next product until the fan reviews are in.
Long story short: Mass Effect may be redeemed by a good EC. BioWare will need A LOT more before I can say the same.
This said, to learn from your mistakes you must first admit that you made them. BioWare has done nothing of the sort. So why should I expect they'll do better next time when all they can do is ignore the mistakes they made? They'll simply do this again and again until they finally get it or EA shuts them down. Mass Effect might be redeemed by a good EC but my trust in BW is gone. At least up to the point that I will not pre order their games any more, nor be swayed by 'professional' reviews. Instead waiting to buy their next product until the fan reviews are in.
Long story short: Mass Effect may be redeemed by a good EC. BioWare will need A LOT more before I can say the same.
Modifié par Robhuzz, 03 mai 2012 - 11:33 .
#29
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:35
Kilshrek
-
- Members
- 4 134 messages
The Invisible Commando wrote...
So when EC is out and makes the ending much better or at least logical, is your faith in Mass Effect and Bioware restored? Would it make you buy some ME DLC? How about more Dragon Age or Star Wars series? If yes or no, give a reason.
To me this is difficult. I find making these endings work next to impossible, but I do think they could be made better with a lot of work. So i will remain hopeful. I do not own any Dragon Age, but the DA mods have been nice to us and this is making me look into their product because of it.
It is in essence, something made out of extreme reluctance, and served in a wrapping of some contempt. To use their own words, it is additional clarification and closure, because I wasn't smart enough to grasp the concept of the ending as is.
The whole way Bioware as a company has gone about it indicates to me that my feedback, and indeed my presence as a vocal customer is unwanted and unwelcome. After all, who needs fans when there are 75 perfect review scores out there?
So no, it would take more than epic to get me onside, especially when I look at devs like Gearbox, CDPR, Stardock, who do not bend over for the customer, but make every effort to keep the customer onside. They also are not above self reproach, something you'd expect from a development house with 'humility' as a core value.
#30
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:35
MattFini
-
- Members
- 3 571 messages
Honestly? Yes.
I will still be somewhat skeptical of future games (maybe wait for a general consensus here at BSN on DA 3, for example), but I can get back to enjoying ME3 (flawed game that it is).
And I'll be cool with that.
I will still be somewhat skeptical of future games (maybe wait for a general consensus here at BSN on DA 3, for example), but I can get back to enjoying ME3 (flawed game that it is).
And I'll be cool with that.
#32
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:37
crimzontearz
-
- Members
- 16 779 messages
actually one of the devs did apologize for at least one of the lies...tho it was not his faultRobhuzz wrote...Difficult to say. BioWare was able to come up with that abomination and so far they've done nothing but ignore the true problems with it. They haven't apologized for lying to us, they haven't even acknowledged that the ending is garbage, or even that there are problems with it. The only problem with the ending (in BioWare's eyes) is that it lacks closure and clarity.This said, to learn from your mistakes you must first admit that you made them. BioWare has done nothing of the sort. So why should I expect they'll do better next time when all they can do is ignore the mistakes they made? They'll simply do this again and again until they finally get it or EA shuts them down. Mass Effect might be redeemed by a good EC but my trust in BW is gone. At least up to the point that I will not pre order their games any more, nor be swayed by 'professional' reviews. Instead waiting to buy their next product until the fan reviews are in.Long story short: Mass Effect may be redeemed by a good EC. BioWare will need A LOT more before I can say the same.
#33
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:38
Jassu1979
-
- Members
- 1 032 messages
Judging by what Derek Larke had to say about the "Extended Cut" in the official Bioware blog, the chances of the EC being awesome are less than slim.
That said: if they do pull it off, they'll have regained a lot of ground with me.
That said: if they do pull it off, they'll have regained a lot of ground with me.
#34
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:40
Anacronian Stryx
-
- Members
- 3 131 messages
No, You can not un-sink the Titanic only raise it.
#35
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:41
IUDEX99
-
- Members
- 105 messages
Of course not.
Leaving the question open if announcements in pre-release-interviews are advertizing or not, I still have the feeling that at least I did not get to know the truth (to keep it mildly).
From my point of view the extended-DLC (at least as a free download) was just forced by the outcry of fans here in the forums and elsewehre.
If we had a clear statement like this, the situation would have been completely different:
"We wanted to release the game when it was supposed to be released and due to this the ending was not as detailed as we wanted it to be. Therefore we have something special for you, dear players, we will deliver a special extended-cut-version of the game's ending for you. Wait for the summer and expect something spectacular!"
But there was not such statement. We heard a lot about artistic integrity, experienced the typical PR-damage-protection-methods. The FREE extended-cut-DLC falls into the same cathegory. it is damage-protection and an attempt to rebuild reputation.
And for me BWs reputation is not suddenly and surprisingly build up again if the DLC is fine.
It's a first step.
It's a kind of band-aid.
Future DLCs and future games will show if BW is able to close the gap between their extraordinary games in the past and the more medicore one they presented us with DA2 and ME3 (from the perspective of RPG-games).
But that's just my point of view.
Edith wants to say:
Don't get me wrong. I do not hate ME3, I enjoy playing it. But neither the ending nor the game itself refer to what BW did promise us. And that's the point that makes me angry. Being more decent while advertizing the game and less hyperbolizm would have saved BW from all these problems.
But watering the gamer's mouths and delivering something that does not fit is not the way...
Leaving the question open if announcements in pre-release-interviews are advertizing or not, I still have the feeling that at least I did not get to know the truth (to keep it mildly).
From my point of view the extended-DLC (at least as a free download) was just forced by the outcry of fans here in the forums and elsewehre.
If we had a clear statement like this, the situation would have been completely different:
"We wanted to release the game when it was supposed to be released and due to this the ending was not as detailed as we wanted it to be. Therefore we have something special for you, dear players, we will deliver a special extended-cut-version of the game's ending for you. Wait for the summer and expect something spectacular!"
But there was not such statement. We heard a lot about artistic integrity, experienced the typical PR-damage-protection-methods. The FREE extended-cut-DLC falls into the same cathegory. it is damage-protection and an attempt to rebuild reputation.
And for me BWs reputation is not suddenly and surprisingly build up again if the DLC is fine.
It's a first step.
It's a kind of band-aid.
Future DLCs and future games will show if BW is able to close the gap between their extraordinary games in the past and the more medicore one they presented us with DA2 and ME3 (from the perspective of RPG-games).
But that's just my point of view.
Edith wants to say:
Don't get me wrong. I do not hate ME3, I enjoy playing it. But neither the ending nor the game itself refer to what BW did promise us. And that's the point that makes me angry. Being more decent while advertizing the game and less hyperbolizm would have saved BW from all these problems.
But watering the gamer's mouths and delivering something that does not fit is not the way...
Modifié par IUDEX99, 03 mai 2012 - 11:49 .
#36
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:44
Sarevok Synder
-
- Members
- 967 messages
Judging from the statements made about the EC, there is no chance it will be awesome.
Also, no. I'm not going to bother with Bioware if I've to chase after them every time they release a product, just to get them to patch it to half of what they promised it would be in the first place. I've neither the time, nor patience.
Also, no. I'm not going to bother with Bioware if I've to chase after them every time they release a product, just to get them to patch it to half of what they promised it would be in the first place. I've neither the time, nor patience.
#37
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:45
Kilshrek
-
- Members
- 4 134 messages
Anacronian Stryx wrote...
No, You can not un-sink the Titanic only raise it.
I'm sorry what? You just raised it with un-sink, didn't you?
#39
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:47
Volumes
-
- Members
- 166 messages
I can't really say until I see the DLC, but I will say that having to wait several months to get the ending 'cleared up', so to speak, is a long-lasting negative.
#41
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:49
Terror_K
-
- Members
- 4 362 messages
Nope. Doesn't excuse the lies and the shoddy product that was vanilla ME3 in the first place. Doesn't excuse BioWare's attitude lately and the way they've treated their customers.
#42
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:50
MrFob
-
- Members
- 5 412 messages
If it would bring everything to a satisfying conclusion (at least for me, haha), then yes, absolutely. Everyone can screw up some times. If they fix their mistake, there are no hard feelings as far as I am concerned. I a way, it might even increase my approval of BW in a way.
That said, there is a lot to fix and from what I have heard so far, if the information we got is accurate, the EC wont really fix the problems so it's a bit a hypothetical scenario we talk about here.
In the end, we'll just have to wait and see.
That said, there is a lot to fix and from what I have heard so far, if the information we got is accurate, the EC wont really fix the problems so it's a bit a hypothetical scenario we talk about here.
In the end, we'll just have to wait and see.
#43
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:52
nitefyre410
-
- Members
- 8 944 messages
Kilshrek wrote...
Anacronian Stryx wrote...
No, You can not un-sink the Titanic only raise it.
I'm sorry what? You just raised it with un-sink, didn't you?
Its another way of saying you can't change the past...
No matter how good the EC is its not going earse how bad endings are at most its just a band aid. The damage is done.
#45
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:55
Kilshrek
-
- Members
- 4 134 messages
nitefyre410 wrote...
Its another way of saying you can't change the past...
No matter how good the EC is its not going earse how bad endings are at most its just a band aid. The damage is done.
So it's a fancy metaphorical way of saying the first time sucked, and nothing will change the fact that it was a crappy first time, kinda thing.
Well, yeah, that's about it really. Clarification.
#46
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:59
Angrish
-
- Members
- 18 messages
is it possible that ME3 DLC extended cut will change my opinion the game's finale? yes.
is it PROBABLE that ME3 DLC extended cut will change my opinion the game's finale? no.
my opinion: the game's story begins to go into the ditch when it's announced that the catalyst is actually the citadel. the game then leaves the ditch rolls into the weeds with the star child is introduced, for all intents and purposes a new character (as far as i'm concerned, kid in nightmares and star child are seperate... UNLESS you want to consider IT). the game then wraps itself around a tree and bursts into flames when star child starts yammering on about how synthetic and organic life will never co-exisit and yada-yada-whatever.
unless bioware adds a FOURTH option that allows shepard the ability to tell star child to kiss off because he/she realizes that organic life is actually *WINNING* the war and the other three options are all traps or the whole indoctrination theory is not only embraced and leads to an actual winner-take-all fight with harbinger, then NO the game will not be redeemed in my eyes.
i suspect that all the extended cut is going to do is put lipstick on this pig. all this talk on bioware's part about explaining and expanding the story so the player understands to 'true' intent of the game and to preserve their 'artistic integrity' is just so much smoke being blown.
and the true tragedy of this whole experience is that bioware's fans have be WAY more than willing grant bioware a mulligan and take another shot. that bioware as steadfastly seemed to refused said do-over doesn't bode well.
is it PROBABLE that ME3 DLC extended cut will change my opinion the game's finale? no.
my opinion: the game's story begins to go into the ditch when it's announced that the catalyst is actually the citadel. the game then leaves the ditch rolls into the weeds with the star child is introduced, for all intents and purposes a new character (as far as i'm concerned, kid in nightmares and star child are seperate... UNLESS you want to consider IT). the game then wraps itself around a tree and bursts into flames when star child starts yammering on about how synthetic and organic life will never co-exisit and yada-yada-whatever.
unless bioware adds a FOURTH option that allows shepard the ability to tell star child to kiss off because he/she realizes that organic life is actually *WINNING* the war and the other three options are all traps or the whole indoctrination theory is not only embraced and leads to an actual winner-take-all fight with harbinger, then NO the game will not be redeemed in my eyes.
i suspect that all the extended cut is going to do is put lipstick on this pig. all this talk on bioware's part about explaining and expanding the story so the player understands to 'true' intent of the game and to preserve their 'artistic integrity' is just so much smoke being blown.
and the true tragedy of this whole experience is that bioware's fans have be WAY more than willing grant bioware a mulligan and take another shot. that bioware as steadfastly seemed to refused said do-over doesn't bode well.
#47
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 11:59
nitefyre410
-
- Members
- 8 944 messages
Kilshrek wrote...
nitefyre410 wrote...
Its another way of saying you can't change the past...
No matter how good the EC is its not going earse how bad endings are at most its just a band aid. The damage is done.
So it's a fancy metaphorical way of saying the first time sucked, and nothing will change the fact that it was a crappy first time, kinda thing.
Well, yeah, that's about it really. Clarification.
Yep... now did me clarifying that statement.. change your standpoint on towards the EC? I would take a guess at No right?
Modifié par nitefyre410, 03 mai 2012 - 12:01 .
#48
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 12:03
Leem_0001
-
- Members
- 565 messages
Hypothetically, if it blew me away and gave me a completely satisfying ending to this series, then I would continue to support Bioware. I don't think I would pre-order or by additional material (comics, novels etc) until I had played a few games in the future.
But I would support them again.
Thing is, I can't see how additional content will fix what is wrong.
But I would support them again.
Thing is, I can't see how additional content will fix what is wrong.
#49
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 12:03
Joccaren
-
- Members
- 1 130 messages
If it meets my expectations for it: I will not buy another Bioware game again.
If it exceeds my expectations, but does not meet the requirement for me to class it as good: I will never play Mass Effect again, and will approach Bioware games with suspicion from this point onwards.
If it meets the requirements to be considered good: I will replay Mass Effect, but will still approach Bioware with caution.
If it meets the requirements to be considered epic: I will replay Mass Effect, and will approach Bioware like any other developer.
If it meets my requirements for it to be labelled perfect: I will replay Mass Effect, and rejoin the ranks of Bioware's faithful.
To put things in perspective, a 'good' classified ending would need a lot more dialogue in the ending, a lot more closure after the ending, a retcon of the Normandy Crash, at the very minimum an extra option to say no to the Catalyst, cutscenes to show all war assets and gameplay involving your war assets in some function or other.
I expect to be disappointed.
If it exceeds my expectations, but does not meet the requirement for me to class it as good: I will never play Mass Effect again, and will approach Bioware games with suspicion from this point onwards.
If it meets the requirements to be considered good: I will replay Mass Effect, but will still approach Bioware with caution.
If it meets the requirements to be considered epic: I will replay Mass Effect, and will approach Bioware like any other developer.
If it meets my requirements for it to be labelled perfect: I will replay Mass Effect, and rejoin the ranks of Bioware's faithful.
To put things in perspective, a 'good' classified ending would need a lot more dialogue in the ending, a lot more closure after the ending, a retcon of the Normandy Crash, at the very minimum an extra option to say no to the Catalyst, cutscenes to show all war assets and gameplay involving your war assets in some function or other.
I expect to be disappointed.
#50
Posté 03 mai 2012 - 12:04
BunBun299
-
- Members
- 95 messages
If, and that's a very big If at this stage, the EC deals with the numerous plot holes and makes the end good, then yes, I will once again become Bioware's customer. Depending on how they approach it. It would be next to impossible for them to redeem the ending without retconning the Star Devil Child out of existance, either by just taking that portion out completely, or saying it was all an indoctrination induced dream.
Its unlikely I will ever pre order a Bioware game again, though. EC DLC would have to be a work of genius for that.
Its unlikely I will ever pre order a Bioware game again, though. EC DLC would have to be a work of genius for that.
