249 réponses à ce sujet

[JabberJim]

Virgil_Harris wrote...

According to Javik, it took centuries for the reapers to defeat the protheans, and one of the protheans big weaknesses was that their entire empire used the same tactics. Therefore, I could see a united front from the galactic community using each races strengths and weaknesses winning a conventional war against the reapers. I would have liked to see the Crucible have just been an advanced "conventional" weapon, which some of the tech you could find to help with the crucible actually seemed to suggest (there was some kind of missile or targeting system which i can't recall the name of).

I agree... Also, each cycle contributed to the Crucible. It was not of prothean design. They were just too late to complete it... To bring each cycles contribution's together to finally defeat the Reapers using the crucible that has been millions of years in the making would have been completely satisfying.

Every civilization the reapers had destroyed would have contributed to their demise. 

[ahandsomeshark]

I also totally forgot about the reaper upgrades the geth got. You would think that by itself would give us a huge advantage in terms of understanding their weaknesses, assuming you didn't wipe the geth out.

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...

The resolute commander who previously saw impossible odds and said "it's do or die."

One Reaper was never impossible odds. Tens of thousands (at a minimum) are.

 

The Angry One wrote...  
How are the Inusannon verbal history?
Let me remind you that the Protheans record memories.

No one even knew their names before Javik mentioned it. 

 

The Angry One wrote... 
Some day, you will see. Not "each star might have life lol!".
I'm reading what we're given.

And interpreting it in the most cartoonishly negative way possible.
You don't give a 5-year old detailed lessons on the galaxy any more than you explain to him how airplanes work and teach him social studies. If the kid was a teen I could see your point but he's just a child.

[Vespervin]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Benezia said Saren was "too strong" too, does that mean "you can't kill him!"?

Don't twist Benezia's words. She was referring to his control over her. 

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Cinematics.

Did you even play Mass Effect 3? At the very start of the game, it shows dozens of Sovereign-class Reaper Capitol ships landing on Earth. Or how about the two or three we see walking on Palavin's moon? Or even Sovereign on Eden Prime. Heck, Harbinger himself, the largest and oldest Reaper, lands on Earth to try and save us from the endings. 

Modifié par Vespervin, 03 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[PsyrenY]

Vespervin wrote...

Don't twist Benezia's words. She was referring to his control over her.

Exactly, that statement can have multiple meanings. Thank you for proving my point.

[mmmpollo]

I discussed a bit about why a conventional win was ruled out early on and how I would have seen one play out here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11648880/1#11648880

ME3 as a whole had a huge problem in its primary storyline.  If the reapers couldn't be killed by conventional means, why the heck was Shepard recruiting the other races?  If only to build the crucible?  Go around and ask for their scientists but leave their fleets since they are obviously useless.  This whole "we stand together or die alone" cr*p really rang hollow.

Which also makes you wonder what the heck Shepard was planning at the end of ME2.  "Well guys, time to unite the galaxy and destroy the reapers.  Oh wait, we have no means of doing that whatsoever."  Then when Andersen informs him at the beginning of ME3 that the alliance hadn't done anything to prepare for the invasion, Shepard acts surprised.  How should they have prepared, eh??  Started digging mass graves for all their dead?

Modifié par mmmpollo, 03 mai 2012 - 05:28 .

[The Angry One]

Optimystic_X wrote...

One Reaper was never impossible odds. Tens of thousands (at a minimum) are.

Says who? For all Hackett knew, Sovereign was completely invincible.

 

No one even knew their names before Javik mentioned it.

Yes, because Prothean history was largely lost.
You know, due to the Reapers.

 

And interpreting it in the most cartoonishly negative way possible.
You don't give a 5-year old detailed lessons on the galaxy any more than you explain to him how airplanes work and teach him social studies. If the kid was a teen I could see your point but he's just a child.

Children do not need to be talked down to. Nothing would inspire a five year old child more than knowing they can definitely visit the stars they see in the night sky instead of "yeah maybe someday who knows".

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 mai 2012 - 05:10 .

[Vespervin]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Vespervin wrote...

Don't twist Benezia's words. She was referring to his control over her.

Exactly, that statement can have multiple meanings. Thank you for proving my point.

I wasn't proving your point. From your post, you gave the impression of referring to Sarens personal strength, when Benezia was clearly talking about his control over her. It does not have multiple meanings. 

[ahandsomeshark]

mmmpollo wrote...

I discussed a bit about why a conventional win was ruled out early on and how I would have seen one play out here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11648880/1#11648880

ME3 as a whole had a huge problem in its primary storyline.  If the reapers couldn't be killed by conventional means, why the heck was Shepard recruiting the other races?  If only to build the crucible?  Go around and ask for their scientists but leave their fleets since they are obviously useless.  This whole "we stand together or die alone" cr*p really range hollow.

Which also makes you wonder what the heck Shepard was planning at the end of ME2.  "Well guys, time to unite the galaxy and destroy the reapers.  Oh wait, we have no means of doing that whatsoever."  Then when Andersen informs him at the beginning of ME3 that the alliance hadn't done anything to prepare for the invasion, Shepard acts surprised.  How should they have prepared, eh??  Started digging mass graves for all their dead?

this. It just makes 0 sense. 

[Pottumuusi]

Optimystic_X wrote...

And interpreting it in the most cartoonishly negative way possible.
You don't give a 5-year old detailed lessons on the galaxy any more than you explain to him how airplanes work and teach him social studies. If the kid was a teen I could see your point but he's just a child.

I would and I was.

It doesn't even have to be detailed, a general summary would suffice. What Grampa Stargazer said was ridiculously vague.

[ahandsomeshark]

Yeah once again that's limiting yourself to extremes. Obviously you don't deliver a dissertation to a 5 year old but there's no reason you shouldn't explain in general terms and then go into detail when they ask questions, isn't that how the entire learning things works? I mean if you've been in a car then why wouldn't you be able to understand a spaceship? It's just a car that goes to the moon.

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 03 mai 2012 - 05:14 .

[Stokie Stallion]

Lord of the rings had a fight vs the odds and became and amazing victory i wanted mass effect be the same... all i got was. what the hell was that? i dont want be combined to synthetics! i don't want wipe all sythetics out after all my ball aching work of uniting them?

[The Angry One]

Stokie Stallion wrote...

Lord of the rings had a fight vs the odds and became and amazing victory i wanted mass effect be the same... all i got was. what the hell was that? i dont want be combined to synthetics! i don't want wipe all sythetics out after all my ball aching work of uniting them?

Yeah well obviously Tolkien wasn't artistic enough.

[PsyrenY]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

And interpreting it in the most cartoonishly negative way possible.
You don't give a 5-year old detailed lessons on the galaxy any more than you explain to him how airplanes work and teach him social studies. If the kid was a teen I could see your point but he's just a child.

I would and I was.

It doesn't even have to be detailed, a general summary would suffice. What Grampa Stargazer said was ridiculously vague.

Agreed, which is why we can't infer anything from it, good or bad.

Vespervin wrote...
I wasn't proving your point. From your post, you gave the impression of referring to Sarens personal strength, when Benezia was clearly talking about his control over her. It does not have multiple meanings. 

"He's too strong" could refer to durability or offensive capability. Two meanings.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 03 mai 2012 - 05:18 .

[Pottumuusi]

Optimystic_X wrote...
Agreed, which is why we can't infer anything from it, good or bad.

We can infer from it that they apparently don't know jack**** about what is out there.

[TookYoCookies]

Pottumuusi wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

patpatrik wrote...

Order to "fall back" was a war crime. Leave the Earth without fight in the beginning - another Hackett war crime. In times WW2 he would be executed immediately after brief war trial. If our forefathers fought so cowardly like this ****** from the future, they never would have won the Naz*s.

I think that this is actually known as strategy.

It was actually the Naz*s(god, I can't believe that's cencored) that had their officers executed for ordering their men to fall back. Remember how that turned out for them?

Strategy in certain instances... Someone doesnt know much about Rommel...

Staggered combative retreat, followed by rapid counter attacks. Rommels Bread n' Butter.

He did pretty well for himself... Germany probably wouldve won the war if Hitler listened to him.

Again, this WW2 comparison fails miserably. Rommel wasn't up against an enemy who is stupidly more advanced technologically and that vastly outnumbered him.


I also feel the need to point out that there is no way in hell that Germany could have won WW2, especially after USA chimed in.

The combined economic strength of the United States and the Soviet Union was just vastly superior to Germany's,
and they didn't have to keep huge occupied areas in check. Instead they were liberating(or "liberating" in the Russian's case) oppressed people from occupation.

Also, "Staggered combative retreat, followed by rapid counter attacks" is pretty far from what the Germans employed in Russia, which was more along the lines of "hold this line in the sand at all costs, you will not retreat even a single step".

Rommel was in Command of Western front after his campaign in North Africa, and actively opposed invading Russia as a war on 2 fronts was a stupid idea. He proposed a ground landing/invasion to Great Britan as opposed to the "Battle of Britain" which was just bombing london over and over, all the while doing nothing but losing fighters/bombers destroying nothing of major military value to the allies because Hitler believed the lies of the Luftwaffe General (kinda like us, and believing BW about ME3), grrr his name escapes me, where as a land invasion (as Rommel suggested) would have more than likely succeded. Leaving the US with out a spear head to the invasion of mainland europe. Rommel in Charge = Drastically different outcome from WW2 (Read History books child) BTW this was all completely off topic....

....Still, this post had a better ending than ME3.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Angry One wrote...

I'd have liked whoever wrote the Reaper war related entires in the codex to write the ending, because whoever it was knew how this damn fight should go. Proper tactics and application of new technologies against a seemingly superior foe leading to victory.

Instead we got depressing, defeatist nonsense that just doesn't fit the last two games.

Just to show what the disconnect is:

ME1:
Alliance guy: "Sovereign's too strong! We need to fall back!"
Hackett: "Negative. Take that monster down."

ME3:
Hackett: "Reapers are unstoppable! We need a deus ex machina or we're all going to die! Hold me mommy!"

You left out:

ME1 Council: Thank you for defeating the reaper vessel.
ME2 full retard council: "Ah, yes, Reapers. We've dismissed that claim."
Anderson: "I believe you, but that thing was cleaned up so fast no one blah blah blah."

ME3 full retard Council: We sat with out thumbs up our asses for three years because you were working with Cerberus. We didn't listen to you. We've got problems of our own. Sorry. The reapers are attacking Palaven.

I'm still disappointed I didn't get the chance to air quote the turian councilor. And what because Udina sat on the council the Alliance denied the reaper threat all the way up the chain even though they had hard evidence of it. So even though they knew about it they did nothing but retrofitted some ships with the thanix cannon? What about building more ships, and doing shielding upgrades? Ah yes, I see the military budgeting works no better in 2183 than it does now. They spend billions on **** that doesn't work.

I don't mean to go off on a rant here, but I also found it quite interesting that the Mars archives were completely undefended. Who did they hire? It looked like maybe about 6 security guards? Cerberus just marches in with their mooks and takes over the place.

But with this being the finale of the series they did observe the rule of story writing: good is dumb.

[PsyrenY]

Pottumuusi wrote...

We can infer from it that they apparently don't know jack**** about what is out there.

Because of what he didn't say to a 5-year-old?

That is clearly conclusive proof of his knowledge.

[Pottumuusi]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Rommel was in Command of Western front after his campaign in North Africa, and actively opposed invading Russia as a war on 2 fronts was a stupid idea. He proposed a ground landing/invasion to Great Britan as opposed to the "Battle of Britain" which was just bombing london over and over, all the while doing nothing but losing fighters/bombers destroying nothing of major military value to the allies because Hitler believed the lies of the Luftwaffe General (kinda like us, and believing BW about ME3), grrr his name escapes me, where as a land invasion (as Rommel suggested) would have more than likely succeded. Leaving the US with out a spear head to the invasion of mainland europe. Rommel in Charge = Drastically different outcome from WW2 (Read History books child) BTW this was all completely off topic....

....Still, this post had a better ending than ME3.

Riveting tale, Billy Badass.

[Vespervin]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Vespervin wrote...
I wasn't proving your point. From your post, you gave the impression of referring to Sarens personal strength, when Benezia was clearly talking about his control over her. It does not have multiple meanings. 

"He's too strong" could refer to durability or offensive capability. Two meanings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= Skip to 3:40  She was referring to his power over her through Indoctrination. 

Modifié par Vespervin, 03 mai 2012 - 05:24 .

[PsyrenY]

Vespervin wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Vespervin wrote...
I wasn't proving your point. From your post, you gave the impression of referring to Sarens personal strength, when Benezia was clearly talking about his control over her. It does not have multiple meanings. 

"He's too strong" could refer to durability or offensive capability. Two meanings.

Skip to 3:40  She was referring to his power over her through Indoctrination. 

Right again, context matters.
So what was the context regarding Sovereign? Durability, or offense? It isn't clear.

[The Angry One]

You know what? If Space Grandpa could tell a 5 year old that Shepard once shot Conrad Verner in the knee, embraced eternity with Liara and saw how flexible she was with Garrus, he can tell the kid about going to space.

[IUDEX99]

The Angry One wrote...

I'd have liked whoever wrote the Reaper war related entires in the codex to write the ending, because whoever it was knew how this damn fight should go. Proper tactics and application of new technologies against a seemingly superior foe leading to victory.

Instead we got depressing, defeatist nonsense that just doesn't fit the last two games.

Just to show what the disconnect is:

ME1:
Alliance guy: "Sovereign's too strong! We need to fall back!"
Hackett: "Negative. Take that monster down."

ME3:
Hackett: "Reapers are unstoppable! We need a deus ex machina or we're all going to die! Hold me mommy!"

Much better.....
The Hades-AA-Gun looks similar to the Reaper-groundforces (destroyer?).
You just need a Cain.

[SovereignWillReturn]

According to the Space Battle cutscene, the Sword fleet was holding it's own, and even outnumbered the Reapers by a 5 to 1 margin. So I'd say it's possible, but when the ships got close in, it became a slaughter because Reapers >>>>>> Space ships in close range due to their Reaper engines and 360 arm cannon coverage.

[Vespervin]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Right again, context matters.
So what was the context regarding Sovereign? Durability, or offense? It isn't clear.

I'm not talking about Soveriegn. I'm talking about Saren and Benezia. 

Modifié par Vespervin, 03 mai 2012 - 05:28 .