249 réponses à ce sujet

[Pottumuusi]

Optimystic_X wrote...

conclusive proof of his knowledge.

Here are some definitions of infer:

1. to derive by reasoning; conclude or judge from premises or evidence
2. to indicate or involve as a conclusion; lead to.
3. to guess; speculate; surmise.
4. to hint; imply; suggest.
5. deduce or conclude from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statement

Modifié par Pottumuusi, 03 mai 2012 - 05:29 .

[Shaigunjoe]

The Angry One wrote...

You know what? If Space Grandpa could tell a 5 year old that Shepard once shot Conrad Verner in the knee, embraced eternity with Liara and saw how flexible she was with Garrus, he can tell the kid about going to space.

If you want to assume he told them that, then it is safe to assume he already did explain about going into space and just added a some teaser at the end by saying 'hey, all that stuff I just told you is awesome, but guess what! Even more possibilities exist out there!"

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

According to the Space Battle cutscene, the Sword fleet was holding it's own, and even outnumbered the Reapers by a 5 to 1 margin. So I'd say it's possible, but when the ships got close in, it became a slaughter because Reapers >>>>>> Space ships in close range due to their Reaper engines and 360 arm cannon coverage.

And shall we also include Hackett's lack of battle tactics. Nothing like a two dimensional full frontal assault in a three dimensional "battlefield."

[ahandsomeshark]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

We can infer from it that they apparently don't know jack**** about what is out there.

Because of what he didn't say to a 5-year-old?

That is clearly conclusive proof of his knowledge.

I would say it makes more sense than him being vague just for the sake of being vague. 

Either they left it vague to imply something
or they left it vague for absolutely no reason?

[Vox Draco]

Well...I don't think a conventional victory over the Reapers could be achieved without at least somehow Shepard contributing to it....like she did in ME1 with killing the half-synthetic (can't be said enough he was) Saren/Sovereign and by this making Sovereign vulnerable...

In my version, I would have made this connection back to part one in many regards...

First, Shepard would not have been alone on the citadel, but with her squad. There it would turn out the crucible was never intended to be a superweapon at all, but simply a trap placed by the Reapers, just like almost everything ancient is a trap or supposed to help the Reapers. The Citadel, the Relays, the Mass Effect-technology istself...

It would be revealed that the crucible had been build before, and tried to be used against the Reapers by other races...only having them to find out it is just a false beacon of hope...yet this time..something is indeed amiss, which Shepard and her crew can find out if everything is done right/EMS etc...

Maybe due to the Protheans and their meddling with the Citadel, or the Keepers actually playing a role in it (I would love to see them having prepared for this and wanting to take a very late revenge upon the Reapers)...

The crucible now suddenly has the ability to use the power of the Relays-Network together with the citadel (controlled by the Keepers and being a Mass releay itself!) to interrupt the subtle indoctrination-signals every Reaper keeps up the entire time to control the vast armies of husks, marauders and agents everywhere....like Sovy did with Saren..though not sure if lore backs something like this up...but hey...what's a little plot hole anyway?

Interrupting it would suddenly render all Reapers vulnerable for the fleet...and while outside the battle rages and finally the Reapers get their cuttllefish-butts kicked, we could have thrown in a battle against Harbinger, maybe while outside on the citadel..something like this, you know, something videogamey and satisfactory...

Still a deus ex maybe. but at least one that has some twist that makes sense within the whole trilogy and would have been easier to swallow than what we actually got...

Modifié par Vox Draco, 03 mai 2012 - 05:33 .

[ahandsomeshark]

Vespervin wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Right again, context matters.
So what was the context regarding Sovereign? Durability, or offense? It isn't clear.

I'm not talking about Soveriegn. I'm talking about Saren and Benezia. 

Yeah she only vaguely knew about Soveriegn didn't she. She knew it was different than most ships but didn't know why or how and assumed it was connected to Saren, not that Saren's power was connected to it.

[mauro2222]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

According to the Space Battle cutscene, the Sword fleet was holding it's own, and even outnumbered the Reapers by a 5 to 1 margin. So I'd say it's possible, but when the ships got close in, it became a slaughter because Reapers >>>>>> Space ships in close range due to their Reaper engines and 360 arm cannon coverage.

And shall we also include Hackett's lack of battle tactics. Nothing like a two dimensional full frontal assault in a three dimensional "battlefield."

Hackett: Prepare for... RAMMING SPEED!!!

[Mr.House]

Yes I would have as it would have made my choices truly matter and I would have felt rewarded instead of relying on a super weapon that we have no idea what it does.The fact that we can't even argue with Hackett, who is extremely OOC in ME3 is just stupid. Poor Hackett. He got turned into a moron in ME3.

[SlyTF1]

I would have prefered some random Prothean relic they launched into space to help preserve the next cycle that conviniently landed on earth that would destroy the Reapers. Then all Shepard had to do was find it, open it, all the Reapers die and everyone is happy.

[WYLDMAXX]

The Angry One wrote...

You know what? If Space Grandpa could tell a 5 year old that Shepard once shot Conrad Verner in the knee, embraced eternity with Liara and saw how flexible she was with Garrus, he can tell the kid about going to space.

Space Grandpa is a perv. Why tell a 5 year old about the people Shepard slept with during a time of great crisis?

[JabberJim]

The Crucible should have conjured up Ralphie, armed with his Red Ryder carbine-action two-hundred-shot range model air rifle to blow the effers out of the sky...... even that would have been better

[Mr.House]

WYLDMAXX wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You know what? If Space Grandpa could tell a 5 year old that Shepard once shot Conrad Verner in the knee, embraced eternity with Liara and saw how flexible she was with Garrus, he can tell the kid about going to space.

Space Grandpa is a perv. Why tell a 5 year old about the people Shepard slept with during a time of great crisis?

Kid:The Shepard slept with a woman?
Grandpa:Nah Liara was asexual does not count.
Kid:But that makes no sense!
Grandpa: Shut up youngster

[Silhouett3]

Do we mean by "conventional" shotting Reapers to extinction like Duke Nukem? If so, I lol at people who agree with this.

The Reapers are designed to be Lovecraftian, superior beings, space gods, apex of life, bla bla. They are not created, they are evolved into Reapers. They are evolutionary “perfect”, their weaknesses are not of their flaws or insufficient intelligence; but of the nature we all share.

If they are beaten conventionally, that means they already ceased to be Reapers.

[savionen]

WYLDMAXX wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You know what? If Space Grandpa could tell a 5 year old that Shepard once shot Conrad Verner in the knee, embraced eternity with Liara and saw how flexible she was with Garrus, he can tell the kid about going to space.

Space Grandpa is a perv. Why tell a 5 year old about the people Shepard slept with during a time of great crisis?

Grandpa: And then the Shepard took Miranda into the engine room and was like BAM, BAM, BAM.
Kid: I don't like this story

[richard_rider]

Would've loved a conventional victory, would make EMS actually worth something.

If they really wanted to include the crucible, they could've made into a "reaper weakening signal", something that drops their shields, or disrupts their weapons, or their control signal, or any number of things.

They could still have their London play, their TIM confrontation, Anderson with Shepard on the Citadel, they would just have to take out Casper, and let us go to town on the reapers.

It's been stated so many times that this cycle is different, diverse tactics, citadel and mass relays not under reaper control, invasion already delayed twice.

Realistically, that's how they should've done it, and then you can have varying endings based on your actions and EMS score.

i.e. Asari Commando teams saves the biotic students, if you went paragon and gotten their help, the Terminus mercs support Grunt and Aralakh company so they don't have to go down fighting (if you acquired both). Miranda saves Tali if they both survived, etc, etc, etc.

I think an epic battle would be with Harbinger, but since he really has it out for Shepard, he starts to overwhelm your team, then BAM out of nowhere the Rachni queen comes out to save you (or if you didn't save her, Hackett himself rams a ship into Harby, dying and saving you).

I mean, come on, an epic conventional battle would've been WA-HA-HA-HAYYYYY better then their "artistic vision".

I mean call it video gamey, but guess what it is a video game.

[soulprovider]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

We can infer from it that they apparently don't know jack**** about what is out there.

Because of what he didn't say to a 5-year-old?

That is clearly conclusive proof of his knowledge.

 

Young boy: Did that all really happen?
Stargazer: yes but some of the details have been lost in time, it all happened so very long ago
young boy: when can I go to the stars?
Stargazer: one day my sweet
young boy: what will be there?
stargazer: anything you can imagine, our galaxy has billions of stars....Each of those stars could have many worlds, every world could be home to a different form of life, and every life is a special story of its own.
young boy: tell me another story about the shepard
stargazer: its getting late but ok.....one more story

Now what I gether just from the conversation is that the galaxy communications and data storage networks are gone, because if they still exist the stargazer would not have stated that the details have been lost in time instead with a clear and concise network as the galaxy had before the reapers they would have been able to keep the data of the reaper war and the ending for a long time. So what this suggests is that the residents of the eden planet have not developped the communications technology to keep the real data and have to resort to either verbal stories or written literature. That sentence alone states to me that they have not developped the technology to leave the planet and traverse the stars completely like in shepards time. Also when the boy asks when he can go to the stars the stargazer states "one day my sweet" further reaffirming that space travel may not be possible during this scene if stargazers society could fly into the stars i'd expect the stargazer to say something along the lines of "maybe when your older" as most parents and grand parents would say to younger children that want to go to a different part of the world.

as someone said before the star gazers scene is vague but if you look at the conversation in its entirety it seems very well hinted that the stargazers society has not reached the stars yet and wound up losing a lot of knowledge over time given that they had to go back to older styles of record keeping, with commander shepard becoming the new basis for a religion, now as for the rest of the galaxy we have no clue as to what happened though we can only assume that the same may have occurred for them as well, though I would hope that was not the case.

[DarkKnightCuron]

I definitely would have loved a conventional victory. It would have been hard, a lot of people would have died, but hey, it would have been a lot better than the whole Crucible thing.

[LoganofET]

Definatly. I fealt very cheated with the crucible, first big warning sign the writing took a hit. Why is Si-fi so obssesed with giant death weapons? The death star, the halos, its always "ancient civilization," this and "Advanced race that was destoryed eons ago" that. Why can't we just put Indaina Jones 5 in space and be done with it?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

soulprovider wrote...

Stargazer: yes but some of the details have been lost in time, it all happened so very long ago

Have they learned how to write yet?

[mmmpollo]

I don't agree because I think people are taking what the stargazer says a little too literally. I don't think what he said was meant to give an indication of the state of the galaxy. Saying "one day, my sweet" is something I could imagine a grandparent saying to child who is too young for space travel. The rest of what he's saying "anything you can imagine..." I interpreted as his way of keeping the possibilities of space open to the child, rather than an indication that they simply didn't know what would be up there (no communication). As far as details being lost in time, I think only the crew of the Normandy would have first hand info on what really transpired and if they decided not to keep detailed journals, it makes sense that a lot of minute details would have been forgotten over time.

In short, the final scene I take as a complete throwaway scene with no significance as to the state of the galaxy. Not to say it isn't exactly in the state that people have said.

[Pottumuusi]

LoganofET wrote...

Why can't we just put Indaina Jones 5 in space and be done with it?

Dear lord... Did you even watch Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

[xsdob]

I wouldn't becasue that raises the giant plot hole of how 1 billion years worth of species could all fail and somehow this cycle doesn't.

[PsyrenY]

Vespervin wrote...

I'm not talking about Soveriegn. I'm talking about Saren and Benezia. 

I'm talking about the statement "X is too strong" and how many different reasons there can be to make a statement like that.

The Angry One wrote...

You know what? If Space Grandpa could tell a 5 year old that Shepard once shot Conrad Verner in the knee, embraced eternity with Liara and saw how flexible she was with Garrus, he can tell the kid about going to space.

Maybe. But he didn't. And we will likely never know why. Lots of speculations!

[Laurencio]

CapnManx wrote...

Not really. If it was that easy, it would have been done millions of years ago; some kind of 'get out clause' was required.

I would have preferred something along the lines of a previously undiscovered weakness in the Reapers, or a way of undoing indoctrination so the Reaper troops all go nuts and start tearing the Reapers apart from the inside; but I admit, I might have found those to be predictable, while I definitely didn't see the Catalyst coming.

Gathering the entire Galaxy to fight the reapers with a fleet consisting of numerous types of species and different technology, utilizing several different types of tactics and maneuvers to ensure the reapers would have to fight a lot of different types of battles all at once is easy?

Modifié par Laurencio, 03 mai 2012 - 06:14 .

[Vortex13]

I would have prefered conventional victory personally.

In fact that is what I thought the Crucible was when I started playing, a massive weapon that would bring the Reapers down to our level, enabling the Alliance to fight them on even ground.

Disable their shields, disrupt communications, targeting, ANYTHING to make them vulnerable in a straight up fight would have been better than the Red, Blue, or Green endings that we were given.

The story of ME3 didn't have to show the races of the galaxy killing every single Reaper, I would have been just fine with Shepard and Co. destroying Harbinger and the fleet around Earth, but leaving the rest of the Reapers alive; in disarray and retreating but alive.

Really that would have made a Mass Effect 4 or even a Mass Effect MMO easier to create. The Mass Effect universe still exists and EA/Bioware would have a readily milkable francise in their collective pockets. Rather than the Warhammer 40K-esque picture of the game's universe that we are left with.