175 réponses à ce sujet

[gmboy902]

Are we honestly going to complain that the DLC to fix problems caused in part by a rushed deadline is taking too long?

Come now, OP.

[Malanek]

bgalin10 wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

 if, according to Mike Gamble there is a huge team working on it, and as has been widely reported, there is no gameplay and only cutscenes and cinematics, with it being unlikely to be more than 15 minutes of content...Kasumi: Stolen Memory came out in about the same timeframe, was a 1 - 1 1/2 hour dlc with cutscenes, new locations AND gameplay, added a new pemanent character,  AND  had a MUCH SMALLER  team working on it...IS Bioware really that unsure or disorganized about what to even do with EC???  

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You can't write a new ending, dialog, cinematics, in addition to doing recordings and rendering the CGI, all overnight. It takes months at the bare minimum. You've formed a strong opinion on a subject in which you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you know what you are talking about? Do you know what is in the EC? I think the OP asked a fair enough question. 2-5 months isn't overnight, it does seem excessive for what Derek Larke said...

"What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC? 
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3"

Modifié par Malanek999, 04 mai 2012 - 03:23 .

[CINCTuchanka]

gmboy902 wrote...

Are we honestly going to complain that the DLC to fix problems caused in part by a rushed deadline is taking too long?

Come now, OP.

This is BSN.  Are you sure you meant to state that in the form of a question?

[John Epler]

Taboo-XX wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Even if all it were were cutscenes (and I'm not saying one way or another, because I quite honestly have no idea what they're doing with the EC), cutscenes are not a cheap thing to make. And comparing it to Kasumi and saying 'it took the same amount of time!' isn't really a valid comparison - whether or not there's gameplay or a new squadmate has little bearing on how difficult it is to make a cutscene. Five minutes of cinematics takes the same time to make whether there's gameplay surrounding it or not.

Now you don't have to listen to me rant.

An employee has said something.

Listen to him.

Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not saying anything regarding new gameplay or not. It could also quite easily involve new gameplay, as the schedule will be determined by whatever part takes the longest - whether that be cutscenes or gameplay. Once the writing is done, stuff can start to happen.

[Taboo]

John Epler wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Even if all it were were cutscenes (and I'm not saying one way or another, because I quite honestly have no idea what they're doing with the EC), cutscenes are not a cheap thing to make. And comparing it to Kasumi and saying 'it took the same amount of time!' isn't really a valid comparison - whether or not there's gameplay or a new squadmate has little bearing on how difficult it is to make a cutscene. Five minutes of cinematics takes the same time to make whether there's gameplay surrounding it or not.

Now you don't have to listen to me rant.

An employee has said something.

Listen to him.

Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not saying anything regarding new gameplay or not. It could also quite easily involve new gameplay, as the schedule will be determined by whatever part takes the longest - whether that be cutscenes or gameplay. Once the writing is done, stuff can start to happen.

I know Mr. Epler. I just want people to know that cutscenes are not cheap to make.

[Malanek]

John Epler wrote...

Even if all it were were cutscenes (and I'm not saying one way or another, because I quite honestly have no idea what they're doing with the EC), cutscenes are not a cheap thing to make. And comparing it to Kasumi and saying 'it took the same amount of time!' isn't really a valid comparison - whether or not there's gameplay or a new squadmate has little bearing on how difficult it is to make a cutscene. Five minutes of cinematics takes the same time to make whether there's gameplay surrounding it or not.

I presume you are talking about elapsed time, as in the gameplay can be worked on concurrently. Because total man hours is obviously higher with gameplay, it doesn't create itself. But then if this was the case why is there such a big team working on it? 

[devSin]

John Epler wrote...

Even if all it were were cutscenes (and I'm not saying one way or another, because I quite honestly have no idea what they're doing with the EC), cutscenes are not a cheap thing to make. And comparing it to Kasumi and saying 'it took the same amount of time!' isn't really a valid comparison - whether or not there's gameplay or a new squadmate has little bearing on how difficult it is to make a cutscene. Five minutes of cinematics takes the same time to make whether there's gameplay surrounding it or not.

Oh, please. Kasumi had a ton of cutscenes, a whole heist plot, a helicopter boss fight, and integration with every mission in the game.

They just planned and executed most of it long before the game shipped (everything not specific to her mission was already on the disc, I think), and you know it.

[John Epler]

devSin wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Even if all it were were cutscenes (and I'm not saying one way or another, because I quite honestly have no idea what they're doing with the EC), cutscenes are not a cheap thing to make. And comparing it to Kasumi and saying 'it took the same amount of time!' isn't really a valid comparison - whether or not there's gameplay or a new squadmate has little bearing on how difficult it is to make a cutscene. Five minutes of cinematics takes the same time to make whether there's gameplay surrounding it or not.

Oh, please. Kasumi had a ton of cutscenes, a whole heist plot, a helicopter boss fight, and integration with every mission in the game.

They just planned and executed most of it long before the game shipped (everything not specific to her mission was already on the disc, I think), and you know it.

You can believe what you'd like, and I won't stop you - but I know that the only part of Kasumi's mission that was really done before Zaeed went out was the writing. I was in the room when they did it - I was on TOR, true, but I was still in the room, and I remember the cinematics reviews as they went from white box to final.

Kasumi's integration with the rest of the game, I'm not 100% sure on. I know Zaeed had some stuff done on a few of his conversations after the main game was already in cert, but I can't speak with authority as to what they did with Kasumi.

[EricHVela]

John Epler wrote...

Even if all it were were cutscenes (and I'm not saying one way or another, because I quite honestly have no idea what they're doing with the EC), cutscenes are not a cheap thing to make. And comparing it to Kasumi and saying 'it took the same amount of time!' isn't really a valid comparison - whether or not there's gameplay or a new squadmate has little bearing on how difficult it is to make a cutscene. Five minutes of cinematics takes the same time to make whether there's gameplay surrounding it or not.

I still think people are ignoring the possibility that +15 min of scenes must be multiplied by the amount of endings they want to explain. For 16 endings like someone once touted, that could mean 4 hours ignoring the likely possibility of reusing assets between the scenes, but even 90 minutes of new content total spread across 16 variations still amounts to a lot of work. Unlike non-interactive media, this stuff must fit within the game engine. That's even more work in the long-run. Making it share the resources between endings without breaking things is still more work.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 04 mai 2012 - 03:34 .

[devSin]

John Epler wrote...

You can believe what you'd like, and I won't stop you - but I know that the only part of Kasumi's mission that was really done before Zaeed went out was the writing. I was in the room when they did it - I was on TOR, true, but I was still in the room, and I remember the cinematics reviews as they went from white box to final.

You missed the part where I said "everything but her mission".

I think her integration with the main campaign was already on the disc, no (same with Zaeed)? Her interjections and her spot in the suicide mission were done before the game shipped (some of it at least, if not all), even though they had to do her mission from scratch.

[MrDavid]

Mass Effect fans:
"ME3 was rushed, WTF Bioware?"
Later:
"Where is the Extended Cut? Why are you taking so long?"
*Facepalm

[John Epler]

devSin wrote...

John Epler wrote...

You can believe what you'd like, and I won't stop you - but I know that the only part of Kasumi's mission that was really done before Zaeed went out was the writing. I was in the room when they did it - I was on TOR, true, but I was still in the room, and I remember the cinematics reviews as they went from white box to final.

You missed the part where I said "everything but her mission".

I think her integration with the main campaign was already on the disc, no (same with Zaeed)? Her interjections and her spot in the suicide mission were done before the game shipped (some of it at least, if not all), even though they had to do her mission from scratch.

I am uncertain as to the point you were making, then. Due to how ME handles streaming resources in, the only alternative to having stuff already in and voiced is to either A) redownload the entire level and all associated resources, which generally multiplies the DLC's size significantly or just have them standing silently in the back. So, yes, there was some stuff done before ship - but I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china, so to speak. It's still a lot of work to build cutscenes, regardless of gameplay that may or may not surround them. Which is my entire point in this thread, really.

[Jadebaby]

Taboo-XX wrote...

varcety wrote...

Do we know if Meer and Hale are on the EC?

Yes, and Miss Helfer is doing work on the EC too.

Do you not pay attention to the announcements?

wow BSN is getting cold again....

[Dendio1]

Why does extended cut take so long?
Cut scenes take longer than you think. Thats all folks

No need to pester the man with other controversial issues such as on disc dlc.

[Jadebaby]

Taboo-XX wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Prove to me there will be no additional game play.

Also would you rather they rush and get a half-assed product out the door. According to most fans here that's the reason were in this mess in the first place.

Reworked is technically new and I can prove that to you. They are reworking the Starchild scene.

Go to the Weekes thread and read Gamble's comments.

link?

[devSin]

John Epler wrote...

I am uncertain as to the point you were making, then.

Kasumi had a lot longer to bake than it seemed like.

The comparison is not invalid because there's nothing to compare between all the Stolen Memory content and what we may or may not see in the extended cut (as you suggested). It's invalid because Kasumi was planned and had content created for her well in advance of the game's release (they didn't just start when the game went out the door, like they claim to be doing with the extended cut).

John Epler wrote...

It's still a lot of work to build cutscenes, regardless of gameplay that may or may not surround them. Which is my entire point in this thread, really.

I think it would have been better to just say that, then, rather than trying to state how something may or may not compare to something else (especially when nobody has any idea what that "something else" is really going to be).

Modifié par devSin, 04 mai 2012 - 03:58 .

[Thornne]

I suspect they want to get all the previously planned DLC done and sold before they go on to the EC.

[Dendio1]

Thornne wrote...

I suspect they want to get all the previously planned DLC done and sold before they go on to the EC.

Not sure if overly negative cynic...or on to something

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I was actually going to make the same thread asking the same question.

If they really are just going to "half ass" it sort of how their PR originally painted it out to be, why are they supposedly busting their butts over it? Something leads me to believe that they have something interesting up their sleeves. Whether that's the good interesting or the bad, that's something we have to wait for.

[John Epler]

devSin wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I am uncertain as to the point you were making, then.

Kasumi had a lot longer to bake than it seemed like.

The comparison is not invalid because there's nothing to compare between all the Stolen Memory content and what we may or may not see in the extended cut (as you suggested). It's not entirely valid because Kasumi was planned and had content created for her well in advance of the game's release (they didn't just start when the game went out the door, like they claim to be doing with the extended cut).

That's fair, but the majority of the cinematic-heavy content (which seems to be what this thread is discussing) wasn't started until Zaeed was well out of the way. But, I digress - the point I was making was, mostly, however long it took them to make Kasumi (and, honestly, I don't remember the exact numbers - I moved to Cinematic Design on DA before Kasumi was content complete, as I recall) doesn't really have much bearing on how long it'll take them to make the EC. Cutscenes take about X number of zots regardless of whether there's gameplay attached or not, where X is usually complexity multiplied by cutscene length.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

[DaosX]

It's a stalling tactic to try to make their game not drop in value faster.

[EnvyTB075]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

As much as i'd like to agree, the mere response Eplers getting when he isn't even working on the EC would be enough to throw any possibility of that out the window.

[KotorEffect3]

Because OP if they don't take their time on it than you will be on here complaining about how it was rushed. These days it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[John Epler]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

As much as i'd like to agree, the mere response Eplers getting when he isn't even working on the EC would be enough to throw any possibility of that out the window.

It's remarkably civil tonight, actually. I ain't rightly bothered.