175 réponses à ce sujet

[eddieoctane]

Side question: has anything close to a tentative date been set for the EC? I know it's supposed t be over the summer, but that could mean sometime in mid-late September.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

John Epler wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

As much as i'd like to agree, the mere response Eplers getting when he isn't even working on the EC would be enough to throw any possibility of that out the window.

It's remarkably civil tonight, actually. I ain't rightly bothered.

So I'm guessing that's a no. 

[Mystiq6]

MrDavid wrote...

Mass Effect fans:
"ME3 was rushed, WTF Bioware?"

Later:
"Where is the Extended Cut? Why are you taking so long?"
*Facepalm

So true.

I don't care how long this takes. It's completely contradictory to complain that the EC is taking a long time while at the same time complaining that the game was rushed.

[John Epler]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

John Epler wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

As much as i'd like to agree, the mere response Eplers getting when he isn't even working on the EC would be enough to throw any possibility of that out the window.

It's remarkably civil tonight, actually. I ain't rightly bothered.

So I'm guessing that's a no. 

It's their prerogative to post or not post, and I imagine that most of 'em are waiting for the EC to come out before they say much. I can answer questions because, while I know some of the technical details, I know absolutely nothing about the content of the EC and can therefore answer questions without any reasonable expectation of sharing details.

[Alpr]

To make you THINK they put effort into fixing the stupid ending.

[yoomazir]

I wonder if the extended DLC will bring us the closure we seek, probably not.

[KotorEffect3]

yoomazir wrote...

I wonder if the extended DLC will bring us the closure we seek, probably not.

Or it will but you won't want to admit it

[eddieoctane]

Mystiq6 wrote...

MrDavid wrote...

Mass Effect fans:
"ME3 was rushed, WTF Bioware?"

Later:
"Where is the Extended Cut? Why are you taking so long?"
*Facepalm

So true.

I don't care how long this takes. It's completely contradictory to complain that the EC is taking a long time while at the same time complaining that the game was rushed.

It's so hypocritical that it's laughable. Perosnally, I'd rather see them take until September to finish it. That way, no one can argue it was rushed. And if the EC fails, it would essentially confirm that the problem with ME3 is a creative element on the development team. Once EA and BW are out of options to "fix" the game beside doing away with the whole art concept, they will either bend to the pressure and accept our money for a new ending or the studio as a whole will implode and many people who are unfairly tarnished by this fiasco won't be able to find work. But at least the responsible parties will likely walk away with the bulk of the blame palced on them.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

John Epler wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

John Epler wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

As much as i'd like to agree, the mere response Eplers getting when he isn't even working on the EC would be enough to throw any possibility of that out the window.

It's remarkably civil tonight, actually. I ain't rightly bothered.

So I'm guessing that's a no. 

It's their prerogative to post or not post, and I imagine that most of 'em are waiting for the EC to come out before they say much. I can answer questions because, while I know some of the technical details, I know absolutely nothing about the content of the EC and can therefore answer questions without any reasonable expectation of sharing details.

I know I know. The wait is really frusterating though. Gamble and weekes were making some progress on sort of putting out some of the flames, I'm really disappointed that they are not allowed to say anything more until the EC is released. 

[EnvyTB075]

John Epler wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Epler? Can you like...drag someone from the ME team by the ear and have him/her sit down and actually talk to us?

We'll send you cupcakes! It think!

As much as i'd like to agree, the mere response Eplers getting when he isn't even working on the EC would be enough to throw any possibility of that out the window.

It's remarkably civil tonight, actually. I ain't rightly bothered.

You get my point though, there have been enough negative comments to those outside of the ME team overall that would scare off even me if i were part of the ME team.

The only way that any dialogue would be anyway civil from everyone would be someone in BW/EA to admit some wrong doing (whether or not its valid is up to the individual, this isn't my point). The reason i say this is because this is how Bohemia Interactive (OFP, ArmA, Arma 2 etc) manages to have such close ties with their community. They came out and flat out said there were many portions of their game that were indeed revolting, and took the community head on, admitting fault where it was due, going so far as to possibly including fan made mods in Arma 3.


Just drawing parralels from my experience :happy:

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 04 mai 2012 - 04:30 .

[recentio]

I think it's wonderful that the Extended Cut is taking BW serious time and effort. I'm typing this with a huge grin on my face because I think the EC is going to be awesome, and I am more than willing to wait for awesome. 

[Mystiq6]

recentio wrote...

I think it's wonderful that the Extended Cut is taking BW serious time and effort. I'm typing this with a huge grin on my face because I think the EC is going to be awesome, and I am more than willing to wait for awesome. 

I really want to be there with you, kind of like Shepard when Liara did her little Blue-Jedi mind trick on him in Priority: Earth, but I'm one of those people who are skeptically opti-pessi-mistic.

[Shaoken]

John, I don't suppose you could tell us any juicy tibits about what's going on with the ME team, since they're all hard at work.

Modifié par Shaoken, 04 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[lillitheris]

Seriously?

The main problem with ME3 was that it was released too early.

And you want the EC out as soon as possible?

[devSin]

John Epler wrote...

Cutscenes take about X number of zots regardless of whether there's gameplay attached or not, where X is usually complexity multiplied by cutscene length.

Ah, I thought the original question was more a value judgment ("Kasumi in X months" vs. "15 minutes of content in X months") than a 1:1 time assumption.

Which makes it comparable (you can definitely compare the value provided by Kasumi with the value provided by something else seemingly done in the same amount of time), which is why I thought your argument was odd (and why I responded that Kasumi actually took more time than was apparent).

Modifié par devSin, 04 mai 2012 - 05:01 .

[daecath]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

 if, according to Mike Gamble there is a huge team working on it, and as has been widely reported, there is no gameplay and only cutscenes and cinematics, with it being unlikely to be more than 15 minutes of content...Kasumi: Stolen Memory came out in about the same timeframe, was a 1 - 1 1/2 hour dlc with cutscenes, new locations AND gameplay, added a new pemanent character,  AND  had a MUCH SMALLER  team working on it...IS Bioware really that unsure or disorganized about what to even do with EC???  

At this point, I can't imagine that there is a whole lot of difference between a cutscene and actual gameplay. In fact, it might even take longer to produce a cutscene depending on what that scene will be. A dialog cutscene between Shepard and other characters, interactive or autodialog, would use much of what is already established in the game, the same as gameplay would. Unless you're going to a new location, the art design is done, levels are built, characters are created, mechanics are in place, and all you do is record the new content and script out the conversation for the engine to run. Whereas a scene like the Normandy fleeing and crashing would require some new models and artwork, animation, and rendering. That's going to take a lot longer.

Plus, they're having to start from scratch. Kasumi was probably planned for quite a while, much like the From Ashes DLC, so they were able to put a lot in place as they're working on it. The ending DLC most likely wasn't planned, so they're having to start from square 1, writing a script, etc.

[Flyprdu]

[frypan]

Having no experience with the technical stuff, I wouldnt mind knowing which would be more difficult - adding in DLC like Stolen Memory, which then feeds into the game at various points, or an ending that draws on decisions made through the game (whether triggers are in place or not for those)

The programming for each seems very different, but I would have thought the end stuff easier to write as there is less risk of messing with the existing stuff. No expereince though, so any help would be appreciated.

Imagine if it wasnt the ending, but a major plot section in the middle of the game that caused the ruckus. What if everybody had hated Tuchanka or Rannoch to the point they couldnt complete the game? Shocking!

[IanPolaris]

Since this is a thread about speculations, I'll toss in mine for what it's worth.

1.  As I've stated in other threads, if I were giving advice to Bioware on the inside, I would be advising Bioware to simply drop the Extended Cut Ending and all support for the ME Franchise, call it a day and a lesson learned and moved on because at this point pretty much anything Bioware does is going to backfire in someway or another.   Too many mistakes have already been made and too many attitudes have hardened for even a completely rewrite of the ending that is brilliant to change minds now (and I think we all know that isn't going to happen).

2.  As for what's taking so long, it's in Bioware's best interests to get something out quickly if they are going to do an extended cut ending at all.  So why haven't they given the limited scope that's been claimed?  I can only speculate that it's because when the Dev and Production team look a look at the endings as an entire team (possibly for the first time if you believe some rumors) and then looked at the feedback, they realized just how bad the ending really is, and trying to fix small sections made others fall apart under examination like grandmother's old knitting.  Thus the Dev team may be forced into doing a lot more work and a lot more actual rewriting than they ever actually intended just to make the ending coherent.

Just my take.

-Polaris

[Yuqi]

Because the coffee-sucking-vampires known as the animation team need sleep.

[frypan]

IanPolaris wrote...

1.  As I've stated in other threads, if I were giving advice to Bioware on the inside, I would be advising Bioware to simply drop the Extended Cut Ending and all support for the ME Franchise, call it a day and a lesson learned and moved on because at this point pretty much anything Bioware does is going to backfire in someway or another.   Too many mistakes have already been made and too many attitudes have hardened for even a completely rewrite of the ending that is brilliant to change minds now (and I think we all know that isn't going to happen).

-Polaris

I'm all for speculation at the moment, and Polaris your comments in other threads have been well thought out so speculate away at the very least its good reading .

But please don't ask Bioware to drop the EC! I'm still want a cathartic response that didnt happen after the end, and the devs normally are good at giving that to us. Even if nothing else happens, I expect we'll get something that satisfies some of us on that level, if not necessarily on a logical level.

EDIT: Oops - I should specify I think you are not actually advocating they can the EC, but are presenting a hypothetical POV.

The hardening of attitudes is a sad truth though. I actually wish I'd never looked into things too far as it helped solidify my distaste for the end. But you never know. Summer is a long time to rage and folks might still hate the ending on that logical level but be past the anger.

Modifié par frypan, 04 mai 2012 - 05:50 .

[spirosz]

IanPolaris wrote...

Since this is a thread about speculations, I'll toss in mine for what it's worth.

1.  As I've stated in other threads, if I were giving advice to Bioware on the inside, I would be advising Bioware to simply drop the Extended Cut Ending and all support for the ME Franchise, call it a day and a lesson learned and moved on because at this point pretty much anything Bioware does is going to backfire in someway or another.   Too many mistakes have already been made and too many attitudes have hardened for even a completely rewrite of the ending that is brilliant to change minds now (and I think we all know that isn't going to happen).

2.  As for what's taking so long, it's in Bioware's best interests to get something out quickly if they are going to do an extended cut ending at all.  So why haven't they given the limited scope that's been claimed?  I can only speculate that it's because when the Dev and Production team look a look at the endings as an entire team (possibly for the first time if you believe some rumors) and then looked at the feedback, they realized just how bad the ending really is, and trying to fix small sections made others fall apart under examination like grandmother's old knitting.  Thus the Dev team may be forced into doing a lot more work and a lot more actual rewriting than they ever actually intended just to make the ending coherent.

Just my take.

-Polaris

I highly doubt there is going to be any rewriting, but I understand what you're saying, especially the part I bolded - interesting to say the least.  

[IanPolaris]

spiros9110 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Since this is a thread about speculations, I'll toss in mine for what it's worth.

1.  As I've stated in other threads, if I were giving advice to Bioware on the inside, I would be advising Bioware to simply drop the Extended Cut Ending and all support for the ME Franchise, call it a day and a lesson learned and moved on because at this point pretty much anything Bioware does is going to backfire in someway or another.   Too many mistakes have already been made and too many attitudes have hardened for even a completely rewrite of the ending that is brilliant to change minds now (and I think we all know that isn't going to happen).

2.  As for what's taking so long, it's in Bioware's best interests to get something out quickly if they are going to do an extended cut ending at all.  So why haven't they given the limited scope that's been claimed?  I can only speculate that it's because when the Dev and Production team look a look at the endings as an entire team (possibly for the first time if you believe some rumors) and then looked at the feedback, they realized just how bad the ending really is, and trying to fix small sections made others fall apart under examination like grandmother's old knitting.  Thus the Dev team may be forced into doing a lot more work and a lot more actual rewriting than they ever actually intended just to make the ending coherent.

Just my take.

-Polaris

I highly doubt there is going to be any rewriting, but I understand what you're saying, especially the part I bolded - interesting to say the least.  

I think it's clear they don't want to and/or intend to.  However, what I am suggesting is that they might not have much choice because otherwise too much falls apart under even cursory examination.  It's the clasic case of trying to plug one hole which causes two more leaks to spring.  I am wondering (and it's only speculation) that the Dev team by now may be realizing they have NO CHOICE but to rewrite the ending because trying to patch it would only make things worse.

-Polaris

[frypan]

[/quote]

I think it's clear they don't want to and/or intend to.  However, what I am suggesting is that they might not have much choice because otherwise too much falls apart under even cursory examination.  It's the clasic case of trying to plug one hole which causes two more leaks to spring.  I am wondering (and it's only speculation) that the Dev team by now may be realizing they have NO CHOICE but to rewrite the ending because trying to patch it would only make things worse.

-Polaris[/quote]

Yup, its that choice or accept that they are releasing a product with flawed logic and other problems - issues they know the audience is going to call them on as well. Unlike the initial release which probably wasnt looked at this closely, this time round they are aware how closely such things will be picked apart, and what the likely reaction to that will be.
 
I seriously dont think they are uncaring about it, and will put the time and money in to create a better conclusion if it can be done so without losing face with other stakeholders like the gaming media. A tricky path to pick their way through for sure.

[xsdob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Prove to me there will be no additional game play.

Also would you rather they rush and get a half-assed product out the door. According to most fans here that's the reason were in this mess in the first place.

Reworked is technically new and I can prove that to you. They are reworking the Starchild scene.

Go to the Weekes thread and read Gamble's comments.

That relates to this rumor about no new gameplay how?

Think about it and get back to me.

Looked and found nothing. So how about you tell me exactly what the hell you are talking about?