225 réponses à ce sujet

[JPN17]

edisnooM wrote...

This entire issue makes the Catalyst's statement that "His solution won't work anymore" all the more puzzling. It seems like his solution only stopped working because he changed / actively sabotaged it.

If the Reapers had shut down the Relays, no one could have built the Crucible, cured the Genophage, stopped the Quarian Geth war, or mounted any sort of organized offense. Everyone would have more or less died where they stood.

Also he's the one that brought Shepard up on the platform. The first organic to make it that far. It's YOUR fault for that kid-god!

[survivor_686]

edisnooM wrote...

This entire issue makes the Catalyst's statement that "His solution won't work anymore" all the more puzzling. It seems like his solution only stopped working because he changed / actively sabotaged it.

If the Reapers had shut down the Relays, no one could have built the Crucible, cured the Genophage, stopped the Quarian Geth war, or mounted any sort of organized offense. Everyone would have more or less died where they stood.

Edit: Instead they make a beeline for Earth, despite the fact that apparently they'll need the Citadel eventually to build a Reaper anyway.

Yeah...its amazing how just one character in just 10 minutes derails all semblance of plot continuity, reason and logic.

[Laurencio]

survivor_686 wrote...

From a lore pov:

We just destroyed Alpha relay which was essentially a master relay that allowed jumping to any particular place. The protheans already disabled the relay which allowed the reapers to jump right into the citadel, so that was also out of the question.

Which means that they have to jump through each individual relay in order to get to the Citadel. That means at every single relay they have to fight the semi-coordinated fleets of the galaxy. That mans they take losses and have to harvest species in order to replenish themselves.

Of course Starchild throws all of that out of the window by just showing up. Maybe the Protheans disabled a portion of starchild?

You'd think the Protheans would have blown the place up if they knew about starchild.

[Jenonax]

Laurencio wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

The most important reason for the Reapers to take the citadel right away was to prevent the galactic species from organizing themselves and to shut down the relay network so they could deal with individual systems.

In terms of winning the war this is the biggest advantage they could possibly have.

Exactly, and for this cycle, where the galaxy is being united more than ever before, you'd think one of them might have said, "you know, Harby, maybe we should nip this whole rebellion in the bud and just shut down the Relays.  You know, like we've done every time before and has always been to our advantage."

What did the Reapers get bored and want to try something different this cycle?

With the Catalyst sort of being the Citadel you wouldn't really need direct Reaper involvement either.

Its all just so lazy and so poorly written.

It is also so easy to rectify.  All they need to do is explain.

[edisnooM]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

This entire issue makes the Catalyst's statement that "His solution won't work anymore" all the more puzzling. It seems like his solution only stopped working because he changed / actively sabotaged it.

If the Reapers had shut down the Relays, no one could have built the Crucible, cured the Genophage, stopped the Quarian Geth war, or mounted any sort of organized offense. Everyone would have more or less died where they stood.

Exactly.
Maybe he wanted to die? You know, he's tired of being the Reaper's.... uhm... God? Wanted to say "to hell with it" and thus allowed Shepard to do what he did?

He's depressed and lonely, no one ever calls or talks to him. 

Good Golly!!! Maybe that's why he brought Shepard up to the platform.

[Laurencio]

Jenonax wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

The most important reason for the Reapers to take the citadel right away was to prevent the galactic species from organizing themselves and to shut down the relay network so they could deal with individual systems.

In terms of winning the war this is the biggest advantage they could possibly have.

Exactly, and for this cycle, where the galaxy is being united more than ever before, you'd think one of them might have said, "you know, Harby, maybe we should nip this whole rebellion in the bud and just shut down the Relays.  You know, like we've done every time before and has always been to our advantage."

What did the Reapers get bored and want to try something different this cycle?

With the Catalyst sort of being the Citadel you wouldn't really need direct Reaper involvement either.

Its all just so lazy and so poorly written.

It is also so easy to rectify.  All they need to do is explain.

Almost every piece of dialogue on the Citadel needs rewriting. Only Anderson makes somewhat sense in a somewhat reasonable time-frame.

[KotorEffect3]

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What a trolly post from someone who is "barely here anymore" eh.

Ah yes, more personal attacks when you lose the argument. Bravo, you are an inspiration to ending-likers.

You bring it on yourself

[edisnooM]

Laurencio wrote...

survivor_686 wrote...

From a lore pov:

We just destroyed Alpha relay which was essentially a master relay that allowed jumping to any particular place. The protheans already disabled the relay which allowed the reapers to jump right into the citadel, so that was also out of the question.

Which means that they have to jump through each individual relay in order to get to the Citadel. That means at every single relay they have to fight the semi-coordinated fleets of the galaxy. That mans they take losses and have to harvest species in order to replenish themselves.

Of course Starchild throws all of that out of the window by just showing up. Maybe the Protheans disabled a portion of starchild?

You'd think the Protheans would have blown the place up if they knew about starchild.

Or thrown it out a giant airlock. That certainly seemed popular with Javik.

[The Angry One]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

This entire issue makes the Catalyst's statement that "His solution won't work anymore" all the more puzzling. It seems like his solution only stopped working because he changed / actively sabotaged it.

If the Reapers had shut down the Relays, no one could have built the Crucible, cured the Genophage, stopped the Quarian Geth war, or mounted any sort of organized offense. Everyone would have more or less died where they stood.

Exactly.
Maybe he wanted to die? You know, he's tired of being the Reaper's.... uhm... God? Wanted to say "to hell with it" and thus allowed Shepard to do what he did?

You know, THAT, if well written could've been an interesting twist.
The Catalyst is the master network hub of the Reapers - or something. But it's a tortured being. It no longer has control of the Reapers, whatever their original purpose was has been superceeded and now he can only stand by and watch.
When the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel he finally gained some semblance of control, and has been actively working against the Reapers ever since. With the Crucible (a failsafe designed by it's creators to prevent exactly this) is attached, it can reach out to you and present new options.

[The Angry One]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What a trolly post from someone who is "barely here anymore" eh.

Ah yes, more personal attacks when you lose the argument. Bravo, you are an inspiration to ending-likers.

You bring it on yourself

If you have to make it personal, you have no argument. Disagree with me if you like, the moment you start insulting and making personal jabs, you won't be taken seriously.

[KotorEffect3]

The Angry One wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What a trolly post from someone who is "barely here anymore" eh.

Ah yes, more personal attacks when you lose the argument. Bravo, you are an inspiration to ending-likers.

You bring it on yourself

If you have to make it personal, you have no argument. Disagree with me if you like, the moment you start insulting and making personal jabs, you won't be taken seriously.

Maybe you should cut back on your snide sarcasm

[Ticonderoga117]

The Angry One wrote...

You know, THAT, if well written could've been an interesting twist.
The Catalyst is the master network hub of the Reapers - or something. But it's a tortured being. It no longer has control of the Reapers, whatever their original purpose was has been superceeded and now he can only stand by and watch.
When the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel he finally gained some semblance of control, and has been actively working against the Reapers ever since. With the Crucible (a failsafe designed by it's creators to prevent exactly this) is attached, it can reach out to you and present new options.

Hey, now we have a way to salvage this artistic ending in a way that's interesting and can make way more sense. Now just make the Super Weapon just kill the reapers and NOTHING ELSE and we'll be fine.

Barring multiple endings, but one thing at a time.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 03 mai 2012 - 07:47 .

[Laurencio]

The Angry One wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

This entire issue makes the Catalyst's statement that "His solution won't work anymore" all the more puzzling. It seems like his solution only stopped working because he changed / actively sabotaged it.

If the Reapers had shut down the Relays, no one could have built the Crucible, cured the Genophage, stopped the Quarian Geth war, or mounted any sort of organized offense. Everyone would have more or less died where they stood.

Exactly.
Maybe he wanted to die? You know, he's tired of being the Reaper's.... uhm... God? Wanted to say "to hell with it" and thus allowed Shepard to do what he did?

You know, THAT, if well written could've been an interesting twist.
The Catalyst is the master network hub of the Reapers - or something. But it's a tortured being. It no longer has control of the Reapers, whatever their original purpose was has been superceeded and now he can only stand by and watch.
When the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel he finally gained some semblance of control, and has been actively working against the Reapers ever since. With the Crucible (a failsafe designed by it's creators to prevent exactly this) is attached, it can reach out to you and present new options.

That would actually have made sense. Their simplistic logic could be excused, and the Catalyst actually makes sense! Well done, you fixed a lot of the ending by completely rewriting starchild, didn't think that could be done.

Add a massive space battle, a touch of despair, a handful of epicness and a ton of brilliant music, as well as a handful of scenes to give some closure to the story at the end, and voila.

Still hate the Crucible, but at least that makes sense.

Modifié par Laurencio, 03 mai 2012 - 07:49 .

[Rip504]

Twitter=Plothole answers
...

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What a trolly post from someone who is "barely here anymore" eh.

Ah yes, more personal attacks when you lose the argument. Bravo, you are an inspiration to ending-likers.

There was no losing here, scroll up and read how much people have asked questions that are answered in the game but they have chosen to ignore.

Just above us is a guy that forgot the Crucible changed the Catalyst for example, literally day in and day out people ask questions that have already been answered/alluded to, not repeating the same thing day in day out does not mean you "lose", it just means you don't feel like repeating the same thing day in day out only for it to be ignored.

You really need to learn the difference between a personal attack, like when you said "I'm lying and lying is my strong suit" and I proved to you that I wasn't (you had done everything I said you did remember? Even linked to it), and when someone points out something in your post. Pointing out your post is trolly isn't a personal attack, neither is pointing out that you said you're barely here anymore, it's pointing out your post is trolly and that you said you're barely here anymore. If it wasn't trolly, and you are barely here anymore, then it would mean nothing, unlike an actual personal attack "lol ur stupid" which I never did.

[The Angry One]

KotorEffect3 wrote..]

Maybe you should cut back on your snide sarcasm

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Hey, now we have a way to salvage
this artistic ending in a way that's interesting and can make way more
sense. Now just make the Super Weapon just kill the reapers and NOTHING
ELSE and we'll be fine.

Barring multiple endings, but one thing at a time.

Well, you could keep control. Make it the ultra renegade choice, and have a bit of a philosophical debate over it, such as.

Catalyst: "You wish to control the Reapers? Do you think you can succeed where I failed? You're taking an enormous risk. Be ready for the fact that one day you may be in my position."

Or something like that.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 mai 2012 - 07:50 .

[KotorEffect3]

The Angry One wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote..]

Maybe you should cut back on your snide sarcasm

Then I have no reason to stop either

[Jenonax]

Laurencio wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

The most important reason for the Reapers to take the citadel right away was to prevent the galactic species from organizing themselves and to shut down the relay network so they could deal with individual systems.

In terms of winning the war this is the biggest advantage they could possibly have.

Exactly, and for this cycle, where the galaxy is being united more than ever before, you'd think one of them might have said, "you know, Harby, maybe we should nip this whole rebellion in the bud and just shut down the Relays.  You know, like we've done every time before and has always been to our advantage."

What did the Reapers get bored and want to try something different this cycle?

With the Catalyst sort of being the Citadel you wouldn't really need direct Reaper involvement either.

Its all just so lazy and so poorly written.

It is also so easy to rectify.  All they need to do is explain.

Almost every piece of dialogue on the Citadel needs rewriting. Only Anderson makes somewhat sense in a somewhat reasonable time-frame.

You won't find any argument from me.  TIM's conversation is a missed opportunity and over far too quickly for my liking.  It could have been really, really good.  

[JPN17]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What a trolly post from someone who is "barely here anymore" eh.

Ah yes, more personal attacks when you lose the argument. Bravo, you are an inspiration to ending-likers.

There was no losing here, scroll up and read how much people have asked questions that are answered in the game but they have chosen to ignore.

Just above us is a guy that forgot the Crucible changed the Catalyst for example, literally day in and day out people ask questions that have already been answered/alluded to, not repeating the same thing day in day out does not mean you "lose", it just means you don't feel like repeating the same thing day in day out only for it to be ignored.

You really need to learn the difference between a personal attack, like when you said "I'm lying and lying is my strong suit" and I proved to you that I wasn't (you had done everything I said you did remember? Even linked to it), and when someone points out something in your post. Pointing out your post is trolly isn't a personal attack, neither is pointing out that you said you're barely here anymore, it's pointing out your post is trolly and that you said you're barely here anymore. If it wasn't trolly, and you are barely here anymore, then it would mean nothing, unlike an actual personal attack "lol ur stupid" which I never did.

The questions raised in this thread have no answers in game. The only "answers" to these questions are things people like you invent.

[The Angry One]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

There was no losing here, scroll up and read how much people have asked questions that are answered in the game but they have chosen to ignore.

Just above us is a guy that forgot the Crucible changed the Catalyst for example, literally day in and day out people ask questions that have already been answered/alluded to, not repeating the same thing day in day out does not mean you "lose", it just means you don't feel like repeating the same thing day in day out only for it to be ignored.

And you were under the impression that the Reapers weren't in control of the Citadel in the endgame, which they clearly were.

You really need to learn the difference between a personal attack, like when you said "I'm lying and lying is my strong suit" and I proved to you that I wasn't (you had done everything I said you did remember? Even linked to it), and when someone points out something in your post. Pointing out your post is trolly isn't a personal attack, neither is pointing out that you said you're barely here anymore, it's pointing out your post is trolly and that you said you're barely here anymore. If it wasn't trolly, and you are barely here anymore, then it would mean nothing, unlike an actual personal attack "lol ur stupid" which I never did.

I said you were lying about the argument being "shot down", not that I made it. About the topic itself, I said I didn't remember. Honestly.
And yes you keep going on about me, what I do and the time I spend here as if it's important. I didn't say it was a personal attack, it's a personal jab. It's tiresome. Do I go on about what you do? No? Then drop it.

[Laurencio]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What a trolly post from someone who is "barely here anymore" eh.

Ah yes, more personal attacks when you lose the argument. Bravo, you are an inspiration to ending-likers.

There was no losing here, scroll up and read how much people have asked questions that are answered in the game but they have chosen to ignore.

Just above us is a guy that forgot the Crucible changed the Catalyst for example, literally day in and day out people ask questions that have already been answered/alluded to, not repeating the same thing day in day out does not mean you "lose", it just means you don't feel like repeating the same thing day in day out only for it to be ignored.

You really need to learn the difference between a personal attack, like when you said "I'm lying and lying is my strong suit" and I proved to you that I wasn't (you had done everything I said you did remember? Even linked to it), and when someone points out something in your post. Pointing out your post is trolly isn't a personal attack, neither is pointing out that you said you're barely here anymore, it's pointing out your post is trolly and that you said you're barely here anymore. If it wasn't trolly, and you are barely here anymore, then it would mean nothing, unlike an actual personal attack "lol ur stupid" which I never did.

Changed from what to what exactly? All we are given is "changed me, opened up new possibilities". New possibilities being presented as the three choices at the end, no?

How are we supposed to understand "changed me" without any reference to what exactly was changed, and what it actually was?

[The Angry One]

Laurencio wrote...

Changed from what to what exactly? All we are given is "changed me, opened up new possibilities". New possibilities being presented as the three choices at the end, no?

How are we supposed to understand "changed me" without any reference to what exactly was changed, and what it actually was?

Yeap, "changed" is awfully vague.
Especially since, with the choices given and the dialog, we know his attitude has not changed.
It still thinks synthetics will wipe out all organic life, it just now thinks there may be other solutions to this "problem".

[Clayless]

JPN17 wrote...

The questions raised in this thread have no answers in game. The only "answers" to these questions are things people like you invent.

Actually a lot of them are able to be answered. A lot can be speculation, but who do you know that speculates? The Angry One for example hates the game and has already revealed that he wont like the EC, so what is he going to do about it? Nothing. He's going to complain about it for sure, in fact he going to spend more time complaining about it than he did playing the entire series, but he's not going to do anything constructive about it.

If I asked "Why did the Catalyst give you these options" how much replies do you think would be "space magic" and "lots of speculation!" and how much replies would be "Actually the Catalyst states the Crucible changed him"? I know how I would reply to that question, how would you?

[WedgeFan]

Was not the ability of the Citadel, to disable all the relays, disabled as well? So then what would be the point in taking it? To nab some politicians?

The Reapers had all the census data they needed from either indoctrinated individuals or the Collectors. Plus they could gather the data on any system they entered rather quickly it seemed. Several of the planet descriptions mention the Reapers simply blasting a hole in a colony's superstructure, exposing it to space, or simply dropping off ground troops if it did have enough of the resources they needed (organics).

The Reapers would not have learned about this cycles attempt to build the Crucible until much later in the game, possibly from TIM. Only then would it be in their interest to capture the Citadel and move it to one of their fortified positions, Earth. This drew the military of the combined galaxy into a shooting gallery, in a desperate attempt to dock the Catalyst with the Citadel. Seems like a sound strategy to me on the part of the Reapers.

[GimmeDaGun]

 The Reapers respect "artistic integrity".