225 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaoken]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

.

Then what the hell was Sovereign trying to do, And really we see Saren use the MCU to shut down the relays around the citadel and this happened after the protheons used the virus.

You do remember that Vigil gives you a virus right? The Prothean's didn't use a virus, they genetically altered the Keepers.

[humes spork]

humes spork wrote...

It's logistics. Logistics, logistics, logistics.

Hell, I'll give an example of this.

Let's figure for a sec the Reapers decided to go dick-holding at the Citadel. It goes dark.

The turian hierarchy, the closest thing to a permanent war economy the organic species' have, and the one race of everyone that's guaranteed to have a contingency plan for rapid mobilization (and if they didn't for some wild-ass reason, if that wasn't on Garrus' list of suggestions from his "Reaper task force" he's a damned idiot, and he's not), goes "yeah...about that everything that made up our entire empire's gross domestic product before? That's now dreadnoughts, start reprogramming your fabricators and turning in everything that's recycleable and not essential now".

[Aaleel]

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

If that's the case how come Shepard was still opening and closing relays after he used the virus.  How come they kept saying time was of the essence because the virus would only last so long and then the control of the relays would return.

DId these people even play the first game, or do they think we all started with the Genesis feature on ME2?  I mean honestly.

[The Angry One]

humes spork wrote...

humes spork wrote...

It's logistics. Logistics, logistics, logistics.

Hell, I'll give an example of this.

Let's figure for a sec the Reapers decided to go dick-holding at the Citadel. It goes dark.

The turian hierarchy, the closest thing to a permanent war economy the organic species' have, and the one race of everyone that's guaranteed to have a contingency plan for rapid mobilization (and if they didn't for some wild-ass reason, if that wasn't on Garrus' list of suggestions from his "Reaper task force" he's a damned idiot, and he's not), goes "yeah...about that everything that made up our entire empire's gross domestic product before? That's now dreadnoughts, start reprogramming your fabricators and turning in everything that's recycleable and not essential now".

So you're saying the Turians, with their homeworld on fire  weren't already mobilizing for total war.

ARE.
YOU.
KIDDING.
ME.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 mai 2012 - 12:24 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

.

Then what the hell was Sovereign trying to do, And really we see Saren use the MCU to shut down the relays around the citadel and this happened after the protheons used the virus.

Vigil's data file was used after Saren locked down the Relays.

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

[Rip504]

Plotholes do not exist,They are nothing more then a figment of your imagination. Anything previously associated with the term "plotholes" are now known as Artistic creations.

Modifié par Rip504, 04 mai 2012 - 12:25 .

[The Angry One]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

The virus was to give termporary control over the Citadel's systems. I don't recall it damaging anything permanently.

But let's say it did.
The idea that the Reapers would be unable to flush and reboot their own systems that they designed and built is beyond absurd.
It's basically saying these billion year old machines together are less efficient and capable than Microsoft.

[Rip504]

The Angry One wrote...

It's basically saying these billion year old machines together are less efficient and capable than Microsoft.

Wow and now the ending is good...

[Anacronian Stryx]

The Angry One wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

The virus was to give termporary control over the Citadel's systems. I don't recall it damaging anything permanently.

But let's say it did.
The idea that the Reapers would be unable to flush and reboot their own systems that they designed and built is beyond absurd.
It's basically saying these billion year old machines together are less efficient and capable than Microsoft.

Yeah well Vigil only states that his virus will grant access to the MCU, So this smells of another retcon by a dev.

[111987]

Aaleel wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

If that's the case how come Shepard was still opening and closing relays after he used the virus.  How come they kept saying time was of the essence because the virus would only last so long and then the control of the relays would return.

DId these people even play the first game, or do they think we all started with the Genesis feature on ME2?  I mean honestly.

Vigil's virus gave Shepard temporary control of the Citadel's master control functions. This is what stopped Sovereign was activating the Citadel's link to dark space.

Now it said that the control was temporary, but not that the effects of the virus were temporary. It would always prevent Sovereign from controlling the Relay system, but only temporarliy allow Shepard control. Presumably this was done so that an indoctrinated agent couldn't take control of the Relay system somewhere down the line.

Whatever the explanation though, we should have been given one.

[humes spork]

The Angry One wrote...

So you're saying the Turians, with their homeworld on fire  weren't already mobilizing for total war.

The true irony of this is you probably think the turians' homeworld "on fire" doesn't impact their production capacity.

Especially, you know, in the context the game's dialog, codex, and logic itself dictates the Reapers attack industrial centers and production facilities specifically to disable their capability to wage war first. You know, things Reapers wouldn't be attacking if they were dicking around on the Citadel.

Modifié par humes spork, 04 mai 2012 - 12:33 .

[Shaoken]

The Angry One wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

The virus was to give termporary control over the Citadel's systems. I don't recall it damaging anything permanently.

But let's say it did.
The idea that the Reapers would be unable to flush and reboot their own systems that they designed and built is beyond absurd.
It's basically saying these billion year old machines together are less efficient and capable than Microsoft.

They could, but it would take time, they'd have to dismantle it and fix it directly. Simply put they don't see the need to do it, since they would have to divert resources they're using against Earth and Pavelon to guard the Citadel while it's being repaired.

[Laurencio]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

111987 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

.

Then what the hell was Sovereign trying to do, And really we see Saren use the MCU to shut down the relays around the citadel and this happened after the protheons used the virus.

Vigil's data file was used after Saren locked down the Relays.

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

Yeah.. that does sound like it could have been useful. Would have given every planet at least a few more months. They could even have kept key supply lines open to ensure that the Citadel was well equipped and all the races who were capeable of "fighting" were in contact with eacother to delay the reaper fleet and evacuate worlds around relays in close proximity of the Batarian relay..

[Aaleel]

111987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

If that's the case how come Shepard was still opening and closing relays after he used the virus.  How come they kept saying time was of the essence because the virus would only last so long and then the control of the relays would return.

DId these people even play the first game, or do they think we all started with the Genesis feature on ME2?  I mean honestly.

Vigil's virus gave Shepard temporary control of the Citadel's master control functions. This is what stopped Sovereign was activating the Citadel's link to dark space.

Now it said that the control was temporary, but not that the effects of the virus were temporary. It would always prevent Sovereign from controlling the Relay system, but only temporarliy allow Shepard control. Presumably this was done so that an indoctrinated agent couldn't take control of the Relay system somewhere down the line.

Whatever the explanation though, we should have been given one.

The post I replied to said that the virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network.  If that were the case, the moment it was used every relay would have opened and stayed open since the Citadel lost the ability to keep them closed due to the virus.

Shepard would not have needed to open a relay for the fifth fleet. That explanation doesn't make any sense.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Shaoken wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

The virus was to give termporary control over the Citadel's systems. I don't recall it damaging anything permanently.

But let's say it did.
The idea that the Reapers would be unable to flush and reboot their own systems that they designed and built is beyond absurd.
It's basically saying these billion year old machines together are less efficient and capable than Microsoft.

They could, but it would take time, they'd have to dismantle it and fix it directly. Simply put they don't see the need to do it, since they would have to divert resources they're using against Earth and Pavelon to guard the Citadel while it's being repaired.

Yeah well you see like "intelligent beings"(snicker) they should have forgotten about Earth and Palavan until they had the citadel operational and then just proceed to harvest in a orderly fashion like they have done thousand of times before!

[The Angry One]

humes spork wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

So you're saying the Turians, with their homeworld on fire  weren't already mobilizing for total war.

The true irony of this is you probably think the turians' homeworld "on fire" doesn't impact their production capacity.

Especially, you know, in the context the game's dialog, codex, and logic itself dictates the Reapers attack industrial centers and production facilities specifically to disable their capability to wage war first. You know, things Reapers wouldn't be attacking if they were dicking around on the Citadel.

So you think the Reapers are that stretched so thin that they can't attack the homeworlds and the Citadel.
Why do we need the Crucible again?

Okay let's assume the Reapers have 300 capital ships.

- Take Khar'Shan first.
- Send 100 to Earth.
- Send 150 to Palaven.
- Send 50 to the Citadel.

Problem?

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[Shaoken]

Aaleel wrote...

111987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

If that's the case how come Shepard was still opening and closing relays after he used the virus.  How come they kept saying time was of the essence because the virus would only last so long and then the control of the relays would return.

DId these people even play the first game, or do they think we all started with the Genesis feature on ME2?  I mean honestly.

Vigil's virus gave Shepard temporary control of the Citadel's master control functions. This is what stopped Sovereign was activating the Citadel's link to dark space.

Now it said that the control was temporary, but not that the effects of the virus were temporary. It would always prevent Sovereign from controlling the Relay system, but only temporarliy allow Shepard control. Presumably this was done so that an indoctrinated agent couldn't take control of the Relay system somewhere down the line.

Whatever the explanation though, we should have been given one.

The post I replied to said that the virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network.  If that were the case, the moment it was used every relay would have opened and stayed open since the Citadel lost the ability to keep them closed due to the virus.

Shepard would not have needed to open a relay for the fifth fleet. That explanation doesn't make any sense.

The virus disrupted the Reaper's ability to control the network, and gave control of it to Shepard temporarliy. My guess is that after Shepard openned the Relays, killed Sov-Ren and what not the virus spread through the system without any obstruction, corrupting over the course of months/years.

I'm just going off what Weekes said at PAX

[xsdob]

How about they had no reason to until it was discovered that it was the key to their destruction.

[The Angry One]

Shaoken wrote...

They could, but it would take time, they'd have to dismantle it and fix it directly. Simply put they don't see the need to do it, since they would have to divert resources they're using against Earth and Pavelon to guard the Citadel while it's being repaired.

Okay, if it takes, say, 10 Sovereign class Reapers, billions of minds working together more than a month to reboot their own Citadel's systems I officially call the Reapers stupidest species EVER.

[111987]

Aaleel wrote...

111987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

According to Weekes Vigil's virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network, devaluing it's tactical worth. So they left it because it was a place that refugees would flee to and a communications hub. All they had to do was have a few indoctrinated agents onboard reporting back and they could catch wind if the organics were trying something different.

If that's the case how come Shepard was still opening and closing relays after he used the virus.  How come they kept saying time was of the essence because the virus would only last so long and then the control of the relays would return.

DId these people even play the first game, or do they think we all started with the Genesis feature on ME2?  I mean honestly.

Vigil's virus gave Shepard temporary control of the Citadel's master control functions. This is what stopped Sovereign was activating the Citadel's link to dark space.

Now it said that the control was temporary, but not that the effects of the virus were temporary. It would always prevent Sovereign from controlling the Relay system, but only temporarliy allow Shepard control. Presumably this was done so that an indoctrinated agent couldn't take control of the Relay system somewhere down the line.

Whatever the explanation though, we should have been given one.

The post I replied to said that the virus corrupted the Citadel's ability to shut off the relay network.  If that were the case, the moment it was used every relay would have opened and stayed open since the Citadel lost the ability to keep them closed due to the virus.

Shepard would not have needed to open a relay for the fifth fleet. That explanation doesn't make any sense.

No idea where the assumption (bolded) is coming from. Sorry but I didn't really understand your argument here.

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

How about they had no reason to until it was discovered that it was the key to their destruction.

At which point they took it to the exact location their enemy was planning to go anyway and open a back door to it themselves.

REAPRS R SMRT.

[Anacronian Stryx]

xsdob wrote...

How about they had no reason to until it was discovered that it was the key to their destruction.

They have every reason to take it first - reapers know they are not invincible otherwise they wouldn't have made such an elaborate trap to begin with, Instead now they just let the younger races zip about making alliances as they see fit and the very thing that the trap was originally formed to prevent happens - the younger races show up with a big goddamn multi species fleet and start thumping the reapers.

Hell even Vigil states that the reapers can be defeated by a united galaxy in ME 1.

[Shaoken]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So after Shepard used the MCU to allow the fifth fleet to attack Sovereign he/she actually used a virus on the MCU to render it inoperable forever?.. why the hell would anybody ever do that?

It does not take much imagination to realize that having control over the relay network might be a pretty good..no not good GREAT idea, especially when that person knows without any doubt that the reapers are coming.

The virus was to give termporary control over the Citadel's systems. I don't recall it damaging anything permanently.

But let's say it did.
The idea that the Reapers would be unable to flush and reboot their own systems that they designed and built is beyond absurd.
It's basically saying these billion year old machines together are less efficient and capable than Microsoft.

They could, but it would take time, they'd have to dismantle it and fix it directly. Simply put they don't see the need to do it, since they would have to divert resources they're using against Earth and Pavelon to guard the Citadel while it's being repaired.

Yeah well you see like "intelligent beings"(snicker) they should have forgotten about Earth and Palavan until they had the citadel operational and then just proceed to harvest in a orderly fashion like they have done thousand of times before!

Except every time before nobody knew they were coming or what they would be doing. That was the entire point of using the Citadel to shut down the relays. That won't work this time, everybody knows who they are off the bat. The second they took the Citadel every fleet in the Galaxy would be on their ass because there is no reason for them not to be; the Reaper's are ignoring everything else, they aren't making husks, and everybody knows how important the Citadel is.

So no, ignoring Earth and Paveon is a god-damn stupid idea, you're leaving the two military giants with their infurstructre intact when you know that they know whatyou'd do with the Citadel and that they have the numbers to do a great deal of damage to you.

The Reaper's have TIME. They measure their life span in the billions of years. There is no need to take hastey actions that can backfire. Even with the relays opperational the best the organics can do is hold the line for a few years. hat's because the Reaper's are destroying every piece of infrustructre they can. If they rushed to the Citadel they'd have to fight the combined might of the entire galaxy at once, who are still capable of makin new ships, weapons and ammo to replace what's lost.

[Omega Torsk]

Because...

...

...

...

...

...

...

The Mac Walters said so and... and shut up, that's why?

But seriously, that's a very good question. The Council is all like, "Can't touch this" to the Reapers, and then the Reapers are all like, "Nope. All your base are belong to us. U mad bro? TroLoL"

Modifié par Omega Torsk, 04 mai 2012 - 12:48 .

[Kem1995]

Zandercode wrote...

Some good points have been brought up but as for why they didn't take the Citadel right away and never used it to shut down the relay network, it's the same reason Sovereign had to plan all that time and gather up allies like Saren and the geth. The Protheans "reprogrammed" the keepers to ignore the Reapers' orders. The Reapers needed a new Saren to get on board and keep the arms open and transfer control and all that. That's basically what the Illusive Man and Cerberus became: Saren and his geth, only difference is that Saren and the geth were doing it willingly while Cerb/TIM were kind of tricked into it, thinking they were going to be able to use the Citadel + Crucible to control the Reapers. So basically, what the Reapers were waiting for was for Cerb/TIM to get their act together, especially after the failed coup.

I know its from page 2 but your wrong, they didn't need to do that because Soverign was only doing that plan so he could let the rest of the reaper fleet come through the citadel relay from dark space. In ME3, there already here, no need to do that