202 réponses à ce sujet

[Damar Stiehl]

Was just about to post my "pre-1.02 spells" mod, then re-read the patch notes and realized that, according to them, "duration and/or cooldowns" were nerfed for Cone of Cold, Blizzard, Crushing Prison and Force Field.

Cooldowns are apparent from the tooltips, and yes, they were nerfed...

However, durations are not... and I never timed the spells before the patch... however, in the few fights I was in since installing the patch, I did not notice the difference.

Did anyone notice any tangible duration difference for the four spells affected?

[BanditGR]

There is a difference yes, but it isn't significant and certainly far from game breaking.

[Creature 1]

Can anyone who knows how to use the toolset give us actual before and after numbers?? The vague qualitative handwaving of DA gets tedious.

[Benny8484]

Yes please.  If its nerfs any of those spells beyond even 1 second I won't be installing the patch.  I play a mage so, no reason to do so.  Not like they fixed the +healing recieved bug that has plagued the game since launch.

[Jordi B]

I'm also very interested in this. It seems unlikely to me that they only changed the cooldowns, because that was only a problem for CoC. The other spells already had long cooldowns.

[soteria]

Benny8484 wrote...

Yes please.  If its nerfs any of those spells beyond even 1 second I won't be installing the patch.  I play a mage so, no reason to do so.  Not like they fixed the +healing recieved bug that has plagued the game since launch.

Well, the reason for installing the patch would be to have a game that is slightly less ez-mode. Casting the spells on my party... I assume the patch is working, but I never checked this stuff beforehand so check yourself in an unpatched game for comparison.  CoC, cooldown is 15 seconds, duration 9.  Force Field, cooldown is 30 seconds, duration 20 (I think this was 40 before).  Blizzard cooldown is 60, duration is 30.

Modifié par soteria, 08 décembre 2009 - 01:58 .

[deathwing200]

Cone of cold freeze duration should have been reduced, not the cooldown increased. With increased cooldown, it got nerfed in both damage and duration (15 sec cone = essentially 50% dmg nerf). Bad balance from Bioware.

[Matthew Young CT]

deathwing200 wrote...

Cone of cold freeze duration should have been reduced, not the cooldown increased. With increased cooldown, it got nerfed in both damage and duration (15 sec cone = essentially 50% dmg nerf). Bad balance from Bioware.

it needed a dual nerf. its a combined CC + damage, it should be mediocre at both those functions.

anyway we cant say exactly what they did to it until they provide updated source scripts.

[deathwing200]

Matthew Young CT wrote...


it needed a dual nerf. its a combined CC + damage, it should be mediocre at both those functions.

anyway we cant say exactly what they did to it until they provide updated source scripts.

If you think cone's damage is the problem, then I want some of what you're smoking. I still maintain that it should be 10 sec cooldown with freeze duration set to 6-7 seconds.

Modifié par deathwing200, 08 décembre 2009 - 02:29 .

[themaxzero]

Agreed. Nobody gets Cone of Cold for the damage.

[Creature 1]

The problem with CoC is that almost as soon as people unfreeze you're ready to freeze them again. I don't have a problem with the original duration for CoC but think the cooldown should be increased by several seconds. I'll have to see what this modification does to it in game.

[Damar Stiehl]

Let's not argue what was warranted and what wasn't, this isn't an MMO... I just want to be able to put out a complete mod without too many omissions...

[Matthew Young CT]

deathwing200 wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...


it needed a dual nerf. its a combined CC + damage, it should be mediocre at both those functions.

anyway we cant say exactly what they did to it until they provide updated source scripts.

If you think cone's damage is the problem, then I want some of what you're smoking. I still maintain that it should be 10 sec cooldown with freeze duration set to 6-7 seconds.

on its own the damage certainly isnt an issue, the issue is it was a highly effective CC AND it did decent damage. spells need to either stick to one, or be mediocre at both. maybe they went too far dunno havent checked, but nerfing both does make sense.

eta: just to clarify what I mean, the old CoC would damage all enemies in a cone with roughly winter's grasp damage, AND it would paralyze them for as long as mass paralysis. okay its a cone so slightly less effective, but a group winter's grasp PLUS mass paralysis? clearly op. so you either nerf the damage (but then its just like mass paralysis so why bother) or you nerf the damage (but then its just like flame blast so why bother), or you nerf them both by a lesser amount and have it be an ok cc + ok dmg

Modifié par Matthew Young CT, 08 décembre 2009 - 02:41 .

[Jordi B]

Creature 1 wrote...

The problem with CoC is that almost as soon as people unfreeze you're ready to freeze them again. I don't have a problem with the original duration for CoC but think the cooldown should be increased by several seconds. I'll have to see what this modification does to it in game.

I agree with this. The cooldown used to be even shorter than that of the far less powerful Shock cone. I think the duration is just fine, but being able to use CoC to permastun was a little too powerful. I also wouldn't mind some more resists. It seems like nothing, not even orange enemies, ever resists this. I didn't think Crushing Prison was overpowered for exactly the reason that any half-decent enemy seemed to resist this single-target fourth tier spell anyway. I also thought Force Field was fine, except that enemies shouldn't attack a force fielded character. Blizzard, I don't know, it was powerful, but also a fourth-tier spell with a long casting time, so I wouldn't really expect otherwise.

[Aesir Rising]

It's a tier 3 cone AoE. I don't have an issue with damage. In fact, I didn't have a huge issue with it's cooldown, but that's because I play with 100% friendly fire damage and don't tend to keep my hand on the space bar. In other words, I didn't find much opportunity to spam it. But for this reason, I'm okay with extending the CD. I don't want it to be a boring tier 3 spell. It needs to be on par with other tier 3 energy spells like Fireball (which has a nice size area impact to go along with it's nice damage and knock-down effect).

[Matthew Young CT]

enemies in da in general don't have NEARLY enough resist. they need a big big boost at least on hard/nm

[Aesir Rising]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

enemies in da in general don't have NEARLY enough resist. they need a big big boost at least on hard/nm

Just boosting resists creates a side-effect that I would rather not see : A greater need to drop all stats in favor of Magic (for the spell power boost).  I get resisted enough on Hard (iirc both Hard and nightmare give a +5% spell resist to enemies) as it stands, and I don't want to min/max just to have spells land.  So, need to add some detail to account for this because a "big boost" by itself creates a bigger problem.

[deathwing200]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

enemies in da in general don't have NEARLY enough resist. they need a big big boost at least on hard/nm

Not really. If anything resists should be taken away completely and replaced by damage reduction or more hitpoints instead. Getting outplayed by random number generator is retarded. I want to be in control of the game, not lose because I got a bunch of unlucky resists. It's not fun and leads to "reload until nothing resists" game.

[Matthew Young CT]

deathwing200 wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

enemies in da in general don't have NEARLY enough resist. they need a big big boost at least on hard/nm

Not really. If anything resists should be taken away completely and replaced by damage reduction or more hitpoints instead. Getting outplayed by random number generator is retarded. I want to be in control of the game, not lose because I got a bunch of unlucky resists. It's not fun and leads to "reload until nothing resists" game.

fair enough. give all colored enemies immunity to paralysis and other debilitators then:)

[Pellegrin]

There are nightmare+ and difficulty mods that modify creature resists. I don't think they need to be changed for base game.



Similarly, there are mods where all of these above spells have already been nerfed harder in a more exact manner. If you're worried 1.02 makes these spells much less useful, don't. If you're worried 1.02 hasn't done enough then look for a player created mod to fix your concerns.

[deathwing200]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

deathwing200 wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

enemies in da in general don't have NEARLY enough resist. they need a big big boost at least on hard/nm

Not really. If anything resists should be taken away completely and replaced by damage reduction or more hitpoints instead. Getting outplayed by random number generator is retarded. I want to be in control of the game, not lose because I got a bunch of unlucky resists. It's not fun and leads to "reload until nothing resists" game.

fair enough. give all colored enemies immunity to paralysis and other debilitators then:)

I wouldn't mind immunity to some of the more debilitating effects for bosses (not elites).

[Matthew Young CT]

ok bosses on hard elites on nm

[themaxzero]

Well after installing 1.02 I ended up doing Werewolf quest. Got to the final fight and was fighting Tuvok so I do the usual FF on boss, kill minions, standard stuff.

Imagine my surprise when after casting FF 5 seconds later Tuvok is out casting again. So I redo the fight a couple times with identical results. In the end I Glyph of Neutralisation Tuvok and tank him down.

I like that CC is a viable alternative to tank and spank. If I wanted CC to be useless and needing tanks and healers for every single fight i'll go load up WoW.

CC spells that don't CC are useless. May as well cast Fireball instead.

Modifié par themaxzero, 08 décembre 2009 - 03:12 .

[Gecon]

Creature 1 wrote...

The problem with CoC is that almost as soon as people unfreeze you're ready to freeze them again. I don't have a problem with the original duration for CoC but think the cooldown should be increased by several seconds. I'll have to see what this modification does to it in game.

Still is. Just get two mages in group.

[Damar Stiehl]

By gum, I did not mean to start this. All I did was ask a question. YOU HEAR ME, UP THERE? I DID NOT MEAN TO START THIS!



Ahhem... Anyhoo... old source code yields some answers:



Cone of Cold Freeze old duration: 10 seconds (Nerf by 1 second according to Soteria?)

Blizzard old duration: 30 seconds (no change according to Soteria)

Blizzard Freeze old duration: 20 seconds (no change? don't know)

Crushing Prison Duration: 20 seconds (don't know what it is now)

Force Field Duration: 30 seconds (Nerf by 10 seconds according to Soteria? Jesus)