130 réponses à ce sujet

[known_hero]

My problem with the scope mod is that it gives some weapons an unfair advantage over the sniper rifles. Each weapon should have it's purpose: sniper rifles are accurate at long range, shotguns are great at close range, ARs have versatility, pistols are powerful and low weight, smg's are........... let's move on.

A scoped carnifex/paladin is easily one of the best sniper rifles in the game. Not only is it just as powerful but it weights a lot less than most/ if not all sniper rifles in the game. Why carry the Mantis when you can use a scoped Paladin with a piercing mod? It just as good,weighs less and you don't have to reload it after every shot. Realistically, why would want to snipe with a pistol anyway? It sounds tedious.

As far as the ARs, a lot of people say that the scoped mattock is just as good as the raptor. I'm not sure which gun is lighter but this is an overlap that isn't needed.

In the end, a removal of scoping mods would give the lesser known/used SR's a chance to shine. Heck, this might even give the Insicor(SP?) some purpose

What say you?

[Kanaris]

I believe the Raptor SR is lighter then the Mattock HR.

I'm assuming this is a issue in MP as I don't really see how it could be an issue in SP.

I look at it as preference I never use scopes on any of my weapons that's what sniper rifles are for in the first place.

Modifié par Kanaris, 03 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[samurai crusade]

To each their own. What does it matter if I snipe with a pistol? It's not like it's PvP.

No need to nerd anything. The game has lots of options for everyone's play style..... Though u wish I could have a shield as I go omniblade hunting

[known_hero]

Kanaris wrote...

I believe the Raptor SR is lighter then the Mattock HR.

I'm assuming this is a issue in MP as I don't really see how it could be an issue in SP.

I look at it as preference I never use scopes on any of my weapons that's what sniper rifles are for in the first place.

Ok, I didn't know that but my point still stands. Outside of weight, the scoped mattock's capabilities still overlap with the raptor.

I guess I wasn't thinking about SP/MP. I was kinda speaking to the developers in creating a more balanced weapon system, while presenting the question to the forum in the process.

[known_hero]

samurai crusade wrote...

To each their own. What does it matter if I snipe with a pistol? It's not like it's PvP.

No need to nerd anything. The game has lots of options for everyone's play style..... Though u wish I could have a shield as I go omniblade hunting

Just for the record, I'm not trying to change people's play style. My problem is the purpose overlapping that the scope mod creates. A scoped carnifex/paladin is better at sniping that most sniper rifles. The mantis is a great weapon but you're really gimping yourself if you use it over a scoped carnifex/paladin. It's better at Mantising than the Mantis!!

Modifié par known_hero, 03 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[Kanaris]

Look at it in terms of real weapons they have scopes for handguns, rifle etc etc in the real world I guess the devs were trying to go for some realism in the mods but don't quote me on that.

[known_hero]

Kanaris wrote...

Look at it in terms of real weapons they have scopes for handguns, rifle etc etc in the real world I guess the devs were trying to go for some realism in the mods but don't quote me on that.

Yeah, I said this in the OP. Sniping with a pistol sounds tedious. Especially in a fast paced firefight.

[Kanaris]

known_hero wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

Look at it in terms of real weapons they have scopes for handguns, rifle etc etc in the real world I guess the devs were trying to go for some realism in the mods but don't quote me on that.

Yeah, I said this in the OP. Sniping with a pistol sounds tedious. Especially in a fast paced firefight.

It's a pain in the butt with a rifle also my first time playing I put a scope on my Mattock I restarted the mission just to take it off 5 minutes into Tuchunka Bomb lol

Modifié par Kanaris, 03 mai 2012 - 08:42 .

[known_hero]

Kanaris wrote...

known_hero wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

Look at it in terms of real weapons they have scopes for handguns, rifle etc etc in the real world I guess the devs were trying to go for some realism in the mods but don't quote me on that.

Yeah, I said this in the OP. Sniping with a pistol sounds tedious. Especially in a fast paced firefight.

It's a pain in the butt with a rifle also my first time playing I put a scope on my Mattock I restarted the mission just to take it off 5 minutes into Tuchunka Bomb lol

Lol!

But it works just the same as the raptor would. The difference is the raptor is lighter and has a faster reload animation. Outside of that, the play style is the same. That's my biggest gripe with the scope mod.

Modifié par known_hero, 03 mai 2012 - 08:48 .

[Kanaris]

close to the same the Raptors rate of fire is just a little higher I believe

[Phatose]

Appealing to reality would lead you to the rapid conclusion that sniper rifles should be removed from the game in total - there just aren't distances involved where it would be appropriate.

From a gameplay perspective, comparing the two top pistols against a starter weapon is hardly a reasonable comparison.

[known_hero]

Phatose wrote...

Appealing to reality would lead you to the rapid conclusion that sniper rifles should be removed from the game in total - there just aren't distances involved where it would be appropriate.

From a gameplay perspective, comparing the two top pistols against a starter weapon is hardly a reasonable comparison.

Don't focus on my "reality" statement. I was just throwing it out there.

You could even argue that a scoped carnifex/paladin with a piercing mod is better than the widows and javelin because they can pretty much do the same job while weighing a lot less.

A scoped phalanx is better than viper.

Raptor might have the all of the ARs beat in the sniping department, but only slightly.

Again, there shouldn't be this overlapping of capabilities. Each weapon should have their own purpose.

Modifié par known_hero, 03 mai 2012 - 09:09 .

[Kronner]

Nope. Scoped pistol is not as good as a Sniper Rifle for long range (if you can call it long range in corridor shooter like ME3) fights. It's the weight system that's not balanced and Pistols do way too much damage considering their light weight.

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[stabbykitteh]

The way weapons are distributed via packs, it's hard to get a decent weapon leveled up. The Mantis does great damage but is prohibitively slow. The Viper is better but damage is meh. I have a level one Black Widow but the thing is heavy, so my infiltrator uses a level two Carnifex. Doesn't have the range of a sniper rifle even with the scope, but it's light, fast and does decent damage (although, you still aren't going to take anything major down with 2 shots like the Widow can). Personally I find using it to be great fun, as do many others from what I've seen.

TL/DR: Unless weapon distribution improves, please don't take my scope away

[capn233]

I don't like how powerful pistols are, but in reality the magnums are more than accurate "in real life" for 100m range or so, which is more than adequate for ME3 fights.

However, I think recoil should be increased fairly substantially on the high powered pistols.

BrookNone wrote...

Forgive me if this goes OT but none of
the pistols should be close to the rifles in terms of the kinetic energy
of the round with the exception of say the Carnifex and its ilk
(Paladin, etc.). And that only when compared to something that fires a
small round.

I did a post somewhere on here comparing energies from .44mag to common rifle rounds like 5.56 and 7.62x51/.308 Winchester as well as throwing in .50BMG.  It was of course in a discussion about the power of pistols.

edit... continuing a little off topic:

This is a bit off.  I imagine you mean .44 magnum and perhaps .50 AE in there but even so there is a quite a difference between pistol and rifle bullets, even the very hot pistol rounds, and even within 50m.

For argument's sake take .44 magnum with a 240gr bullet (middle of the road) and using some manufacturer data let's say it has a muzzle velocity of 1230fps (375m/s) and muzzle energy of 806ftlbs (1093J).

Next look at 7.62x51mm (aka 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester) and the numbers for a 150gr bullet are more like 2820fps (860m/s) muzzle velocity and 2648ftlbs (3590J) muzzle energy.  This would be a standard hunting rifle
or battle rifle caliber (like perhaps the Viper).

If you want a ridiculous pistol round, how about .500 S&W at 1800fps (549m/s) muzzle velocity and 2338 ftlbs (3170J).  That is about as good as it gets for a pistol, but we haven't even thought about the top tier rifle rounds yet.

The numbers above are from a single ammo manufacturer (Federal) and not necessarily the ultimate performance for each caliber, but is meant to be a representation of the relative "power." I converted the numbers to SI myself though.  Granted, this is also dependent on test barrel length somewhat.

edit: for something like the Widow, .50 BMG would be analogous. That can have around 18,000J muzzle energy.
Consider this a clarification of your point, based on your earlier comments that pistols should not be the ultimate in performance.

I mis-remembered, didn't talk about 5.56

Modifié par capn233, 03 mai 2012 - 10:08 .

[idspisp0pd]

There are a few differences between a scoped paladin and a sniper rifle that might make you choose the sniper. For one thing, you need to slap a scope mod on there, so you've automatically got one less upgrade slot to work with. Second, you can't use a concentration mod on a pistol so it won't be as easy to get headshots if you aren't very accurate. Third, the class that people are most likely to use a sniper rifle on (infiltrator) has damage and time dilation bonuses that only apply to sniper rifles specifically.

[Icinix]

idspisp0pd wrote...

There are a few differences between a scoped paladin and a sniper rifle that might make you choose the sniper. For one thing, you need to slap a scope mod on there, so you've automatically got one less upgrade slot to work with. Second, you can't use a concentration mod on a pistol so it won't be as easy to get headshots if you aren't very accurate. Third, the class that people are most likely to use a sniper rifle on (infiltrator) has damage and time dilation bonuses that only apply to sniper rifles specifically.

This.

Although there are things which may seem to make other weapons somewhat redundant, there are a number of builds where it actually ends up throwing the points somewhere else. Without taking builds into account, it can seem odd decisions, but once you throw specific builds and power upgrades into the mix it starts to make sense.

[Bhaal___Spawn]

It's not a game breaker - you can snipe without a scope because most of the time you're not going to be fighting long range, most of the MP levels are fairly small. Hell even a Disciple or Revenant can blow stuff away from a fair distance if you're in cover and/or a Turian Soldier. You're forgetting a couple things.
Like what tier weapon the carnifex/paladin is. Similar tier sniper rifles have mods built-in, like zoom and AP or for example all the little things javelin has going for it(geth weapon, can see cloaked targets, through smoke, AP, zoom, etc). It allows for you to forego the need for a few things if you want and you can then take ammo and barrel. Let's forget that one of the best sniping weapons is actually a geth inf using a GPS(shotgun), with the built in tracking and high accuracy for a shotgun. You can snipe really good with graal or crusader as well and do huge damage provided you adjust to them.

You're forgetting about infiltrators entirely. A good inf specced for sniping(weapon dmg, prox mine +dmg, headshot dmg, sniper rifle dmg, cloak dmg, blah blah blah) using an easily maxed out mantis(compared to a lot of other things) is going to do some huge damage especially on bronze/silver. Sure maybe some biotic pistol user might outscore you(who cares lol?) but I bet you drop most of all the key targets and bosses(unless you're bad) thus making it an easier win.

Also the Valiant can be basically beast mode in the right hands especially if you don't even own a black widow and are lucky enough to get it a few times. It's pistol counter part is rubbish in comparison. Hell imo it beats all of the special pack stuff... by far.

You will see a much bigger difference in Gold. Forget sniping with your pistol 1 shotting everything, scope or not, it's not really going to happen. You're better off with real dmg like javelin/widows/graal/gps coupled with cloak bonuses or aren rush - IF you're sniping. If you aren't sniping you should be controlling choke points and spawn points with a turrent/freezing/stasis/etc and/or guns that stagger multi things(Falcon) or you should be blowing everything up with combos or getting the objectives done.  Try even a jav 1 on a geth inf specced for it and you'll rip through gold primes while a "pistol sniper" is shooting BBs.

Also if you start figuring in consumables, tons of weapons will rip things to shreds in the right hands. The only real problem I see with some pistols(aka the hand cannon ones) is that there is little or no recoil, coupled with a fast reload animation etc. However I think it's all fine. Every class build needs a gun that's decent and these pistols fill that niche. I mean what are you going to do? Have two options: use nerfed pee shooter pistol that doesn't kill anything fast enough even if you stasis it or stasis something once every 20 seconds due to equipping some giant heavy weapon on a squishy? Best hope teamates are near because if there's a swarm you're toast.

-From a MP's perspective

tl/dr: In the right hands with a properly specced class, sniper rifles can beat the snot out of things even gold primes.

[Soja57]

Pistol scopes aren't the real problem here. The big issue comes from each weapon type not having a well-defined niche. For example, quick-scoping sniper rifles for close range? Potentially better than melee or shotguns if done correctly and with headshots. Sniping enemies with a shotgun? Easily done with the GPS or Crusader, not saying its the best, but good enough that sniper rifles aren't required to fight at long range. SMGs? Rather pointless, due to superior versions, the Assault Rifles. The only thing going for SMGs is Lighweight Materials, but is more of a passive stat than actually improving the weapon.

See how much each weapon type overlaps? I remember in ME2 where each weapon type was more valuable, like SMGs for shields, pistols for armor, etc. Of course, sniper rifles weren't really necessary still, due to the lack of large battlefields. My point is that the attachments aren't the problem, the weapons themselves are.

[Gold Dragon]

Sniper Rifles have ONE advantage over Scoped Pistols.

The Pistol mod gives only basic Zoom.  The Sniper version of the Mod will actually highlight enemies that are hiding behind smoke.

[Nethershadow]

I agree that scopes really need to be removed.

I think it is retarded that a scoped pistol is majority preferred sniper weapon. It is a pistol...

People are just being lazy and taking the most advantageous route which i cant blame them for using pistol with scope, just another reason it needs to go. Leave the scope for the sniper and maybe the AR, remove it from all others.

[JaegerBane]

known_hero wrote...

samurai crusade wrote...

To each their own. What does it matter if I snipe with a pistol? It's not like it's PvP.

No need to nerd anything. The game has lots of options for everyone's play style..... Though u wish I could have a shield as I go omniblade hunting

Just for the record, I'm not trying to change people's play style. My problem is the purpose overlapping that the scope mod creates. A scoped carnifex/paladin is better at sniping that most sniper rifles. The mantis is a great weapon but you're really gimping yourself if you use it over a scoped carnifex/paladin. It's better at Mantising than the Mantis!!

I'm afraid I agree with samurai. Regardless of what your intention is, advocating stuff being removed is essentially asking for all players to have less options. If you don't like scopes, don't use them, like I do. Don't request options get removed just because you don't like them, as you always have the option of just ignoring it.

The argument about Mantis vs Paladin is pointless anyway, as you're comparing a bog-standard civilian-grade rifle against a state-of-the-art pistol apparently only in use by the best-funded.

The best sniper rifles still have advantages - raw damage or no recoil, plus SR mods which outperform all other mods. Just let people do their own thing.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 04 mai 2012 - 04:40 .

[known_hero]

JaegerBane wrote...

known_hero wrote...

samurai crusade wrote...

To each their own. What does it matter if I snipe with a pistol? It's not like it's PvP.

No need to nerd anything. The game has lots of options for everyone's play style..... Though u wish I could have a shield as I go omniblade hunting

Just for the record, I'm not trying to change people's play style. My problem is the purpose overlapping that the scope mod creates. A scoped carnifex/paladin is better at sniping that most sniper rifles. The mantis is a great weapon but you're really gimping yourself if you use it over a scoped carnifex/paladin. It's better at Mantising than the Mantis!!

I'm afraid I agree with samurai. Regardless of what your intention is, advocating stuff being removed is essentially asking for all players to have less options. If you don't like scopes, don't use them, like I do. Don't request options get removed just because you don't like them, as you always have the option of just ignoring it.

The argument about Mantis vs Paladin is pointless anyway, as you're comparing a bog-standard civilian-grade rifle against a state-of-the-art pistol apparently only in use by the best-funded.

The best sniper rifles still have advantages - raw damage or no recoil, plus SR mods which outperform all other mods. Just let people do their own thing.

You completely missed the point of the comment you chose to quote. I said I'm not trying to change play styles. This thread isn't an attack against people who use scoped pistols. It's about creating more of a balanced weapon arsenal. Snipers should be for long range, that's their purpose. The heaviness of the SR's is a huge incentive to use a scoped pistol. The problem is the scoped pistol can pretty much do the same job as the SR's with only tiny disadvantages. The scoped paladin/carnifex/phalanx pretty much makes the majority of SR's obsolete.

My point is the removal of the scoped mod will help balance the weapon system. Again, I'M NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOUR PLAYSTYLE.