130 réponses à ce sujet

[Rautia]

I like my scoped pistol, allows me to throw biotics more accurately over longer distances than normally.

[Jog0907]

The issue is that the game doesn't really has long range combat scenarios were the differences between a scoped pistol and a sniper rifle would be noticeable.

The game needs to make scenarios that are viable for all classes (someone who rolls a certain class shouldn't get ****ed because they didn't know a sniper was a must have) as such, closer ranges were scoped pistols are viable exist instead of longer ranges of 1 km (were a sniper would show its true power, range) that would render a majority of classes and weapons useless.

Scopes are fine, if anything the request would be one of combat situations that a sniper can handle the absolute best, 800m-1km vs the 100m or less that the game tends to use now, while not turning most classes and load-outs into something useless, in order to keep the balance for users that a videogame needs to have.

Modifié par Jog0907, 04 mai 2012 - 08:23 .

[Karimloo]

Scopes in this game are horribly done in a technical point of view.

This is what they are;

Imagine aiming with a Mattock without Scopes. You zoom past the shoulder.

Now, imagine the same thing, where you zoom in, but the camera zooms super far, STILL ORIENTED on the shoulder, and then putting a crappy Microsoft Paint Scope all around your screen. That's what the scopes are.

They do not zoom through the rifle itself, it goes like ordinary ironsighted Mattock, but farther with a dumb scope.

You're always, ALWAYS, better off without a scope. Barrel, and Armor Piercing mod, that's all you need, that or Mag capacity.

[capn233]

I disagree that you are always better off without a scope. The scope adds accuracy to the weapon, and further buffs accuracy while you are moving and taking damage. That's probably the biggest benefit of the scopes. This is a noticeable effect, unlike Extended Barrel on most of the AR's.  It is also quite noticable on the pistols.  Of course if you always just sit in cover it won't help you as much.

Modifié par capn233, 04 mai 2012 - 09:46 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Why carry the Mantis when you can use a scoped Paladin with a piercing mod?

Sorry, but a scoped Predator doesn't get anywhere close to a BW, so there's no need to remove it. [See what I did there?]

Seriously, I don't have a problem with scoped pistols. You don't get the cloak bonus, lack built-in piercing (fair: Widow vs Carniflex), and you don't really need the scope at your effective range (i.e. 15m for power lock-on).

Finally, only infiltrators get a chance to actually aim their shots and they'll be using the heaviest sniper rifle anyway. [If you disagree you're a noob. With two primes shooting at you at all times, taking an aimed shot will cost you your shields, and deprive your team of biotic explosions = crowd control for 3ish seconds.]

[StarcloudSWG]

What I'm hearing in this thread is "I want MY gun to be SPECIAL."

So what if other weapons get scopes as an add on? All sniper rifles have scopes built-in, freeing up an upgrade slot. Some sniper rifles also have built-in piercing, giving them another advantage over nearly every other weapon in the game.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 05 mai 2012 - 12:12 .

[known_hero]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

What I'm hearing in this thread is "I want MY gun to be SPECIAL."

So what if other weapons get scopes as an add on? All sniper rifles have scopes built-in, freeing up an upgrade slot. Some sniper rifles also have built-in piercing, giving them another advantage over nearly every other weapon in the game.

Really? Who said this?

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I'm not bashing pistols or ARs. I just see a problem in the fact that the scope mod creates an significant overlap in capabilities. This really isn't a problem for the ARs because they're not powerful per bullet like the pistols. The SR only has ONE abaility: long range accuracy. Why give other weapons this ability? The weight system makes this even worst because most SR's are heavy.

So far, people have been saying the advantage of using the SR is the ability to add one extra mod. Honestly, that's not a big advantage. SR's have a more powerful scope but you can still get the same shots with a scoped pistol. As some has already said, "long range" really doesn't exist in this game. As far as raw damage, the widows and Javalin are more powerful but the paladin/carnifex packs a pretty powerful punch themselves while giving you the ability to spam your powers. It's not just the carnifex/paladin either, the phalanx outshines the the viper as well.

I'm not demanding that bioware remove the scope mod. I'm presenting the question to the forums to gather different opinions. I just want each weapon class to have it's chance to shine and right now the SRs aren't getting a fair shot.

Modifié par known_hero, 05 mai 2012 - 01:19 .

[capn233]

Poor Viper. I almost feel inclined to go into the coalesced file and change the ROF to 240...

[numark]

capn233 wrote...

Poor Viper. I almost feel inclined to go into the coalesced file and change the ROF to 240...

/agreed

Widow/Black Widow have their niches; they feel unique and powerful in their intended roles.  But aside from them; for other Sniper Rifles, at the moment any time there's a choice between a Sniper Rifle and a Scoped Pistol (ex. Viper vs. Scoped-i dunno, Carnifax), the only class that really has a reason to go with the SR is the Infiltrator, and that's only because it has powers specifically for them. 

Athaneau has an SMG/Scoped Pistol build for a Soldier that takes full advantage of using scoped pistols to fulfill the role of a SR .

Of couse there may be other builds where a specific sniper rifle might come out ahead over a scoped pistol, but I think as evidenced in this thread, there is a huge amount of gray area between weapon roles. 

Taking away (nerfing) always leaves a bad taste, imo in this case I think it's better to buff current SR's to make them more unique.  So if scopes are here to stay, why not:

- Give all SR's innate cover pen
- Buff SR dmg while in scope
- Buff SR time dilation while in scope

etc, etc, just throwing a few ideas out there

-peace

Modifié par numark, 05 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[CuseGirl]

JaegerBane wrote...

I'm afraid I agree with samurai. Regardless of what your intention is, advocating stuff being removed is essentially asking for all players to have less options. If you don't like scopes, don't use them, like I do. Don't request options get removed just because you don't like them, as you always have the option of just ignoring it.

The argument about Mantis vs Paladin is pointless anyway, as you're comparing a bog-standard civilian-grade rifle against a state-of-the-art pistol apparently only in use by the best-funded.

The best sniper rifles still have advantages - raw damage or no recoil, plus SR mods which outperform all other mods. Just let people do their own thing.

I had never even heard of the idea that a scoped Paladin was almost like a sniper rifle until I come on BSN. I'm pretty sure the avg ME player doesn't even realize it. 

[Nitrocuban]

The scope for SMGs ist totally useless and could be removed.

[StarcloudSWG]

"I just see a problem in the fact that the scope mod creates an significant overlap in capabilities."

Translates to "I like sniper rifles. No firearm should be as good as the sniper rifle I use. I want MY gun to be SPECIAL."

[Tyrium]

No, they shouldn't be removed. I hate scopes, so I don't use them. It's that simple.

[JaegerBane]

known_hero wrote...
You completely missed the point of the comment you chose to quote. I said I'm not trying to change play styles. 

And you've completely missed the point of what my original post was about. Advocating removal of items from the game, regardless of your reasoning or your intentions, effectively means taking options away from other players. End of story. It doesn't matter that 'this post is not an attack on other player's styles' or whatever - that is the result of removing stuff no matter what your reasoning is. Saying 'I'm not trying to change playstyles' doesn't change the fact that this will happen if you remove stuff that players are using already.

As I said, if you don't like it, don't use it. You always have the option of simply not using something, but remove something and the players who preferred it don't have any options to use it anymore.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 05 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[Scam_poo]

Uhh... If I shoot someone with a scoped Carnifex, that's nothing against shooting him with a Widow.

[Edrahil17]

I never use the scope mod as I find it useless.
It takes one slot which you could use for EB or AP mods, which make more difference.
Plus I don't like the limited vision you get from it.

[known_hero]

JaegerBane wrote...

known_hero wrote...
You completely missed the point of the comment you chose to quote. I said I'm not trying to change play styles. 

And you've completely missed the point of what my original post was about. Advocating removal of items from the game, regardless of your reasoning or your intentions, effectively means taking options away from other players. End of story. It doesn't matter that 'this post is not an attack on other player's styles' or whatever - that is the result of removing stuff no matter what your reasoning is. Saying 'I'm not trying to change playstyles' doesn't change the fact that this will happen if you remove stuff that players are using already.

As I said, if you don't like it, don't use it. You always have the option of simply not using something, but remove something and the players who preferred it don't have any options to use it anymore.

You do realize there is a question mark in the thread title, right. I was simply asking a question. I'm questioning the existence/purpose of scope mods in this game. This isn't a thread about how much I hate them or trying to push my "special weapon". Actually, shotgun is my favorite weapon class in this game. The SRs are only good at one thing, why give another powerful weapon this ONE ability?

Really, I could careless how people play this game. Use whatever weapons on whatever class your heart desires. You spent your hard earn money on this game, you have the right to do whatever you want. I'm looking at this from a balance perspective. I feel like removal the mod would create more of a balanced arsenal for this game. The weight system already puts SRs at a disadvantage, this mod just furthers it.

The funny thing is I WANT to hear what other people have to say. That's the purpose of me making this thread. The people who are saying "don't like it don't use it", aren't understanding that. Again, I'm not DEMANDING anything.

Modifié par known_hero, 05 mai 2012 - 01:55 .

[JaegerBane]

known_hero wrote...

You do realize there is a question mark in the thread title, right. I was simply asking a question.

And I gave you an answer. I don't think the scope mod should be removed for the reasons I've already put forward. Really, if you didn't want people questioning it, don't frame it as a question. Don't even post it. Thats what forums are for, discussion.

Really, I get what you're pointing out - you have no wish to mess up anyone's else experience and are purely concerned about balance. I get that, I understand it, its admirable for you to do so, and I don't hold it against you.

My point, as I've said, has got nothing to do with your wishes  - pulling stuff out of the game is just going to disappoint someone and doing it for the sake of balance, in a single player or non-PvP game, is pointless. It doesn't really achieve anything. No-one is actually being disadvantaged by the scopes and hence, what purpose are you working towards? Just to add a little more balance in a game for the sake of doing so?

What you're saying is effectively the same argument as banning alcohol because you think it leads to drunken behaviour, while acknowledging that you don't wish to stop people from responsibly enjoying a few drinks. It's all very well saying that, but that's exactly what the effect will be, regardless of whether you wished to stop people doing
that or not.

If its a question of you not being able to use sniper rifles because you can't ignore heavy pistols, then I'd argue that's your problem, not the game's. There's plenty of reasons to use Sniper Rifles as they stand in this game, but there's also a lot of filler in between the good ones. Your example - the mantis - is the bottom-of-the-barrel basic one. The fact that it doesn't perform as well as a scoped heavy pistol is not reason to start fiddling with pistol mods, its reason to upgrade. There are much better SRs in the game that *are* worth the weight.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 05 mai 2012 - 03:56 .

[StarcloudSWG]

known_hero, "All niches must be protected!" is just as bad an argument. Sniper rifles are inherently better than a heavy pistol with a scope as an add on, simply because sniper rifles have inherent advantages that don't show up on the mod screen.

The point of modifications is to allow the player to customize their loadout to fit their playstyle. Removing mods out of some demented desire to keep all weapons in their niches is just another way of removing choice and forcing conformity of playstyles according to what *you* believe they should be. And there's many solid game design reasons to NOT go that direction.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 05 mai 2012 - 04:19 .

[capn233]

A better question is are they ever going to change any weapon, mod, or power attributes in Single Player? That's probably a no unfortunately.

[known_hero]

JaegerBane wrote...

known_hero wrote...

You do realize there is a question mark in the thread title, right. I was simply asking a question.

And I gave you an answer. I don't think the scope mod should be removed for the reasons I've already put forward. Really, if you didn't want people questioning it, don't frame it as a question. Don't even post it. Thats what forums are for, discussion.

I WANT people to question it. I WANT to hear other people's opinion on this topic. I WANT people to discuss it. That's what I've been trying to get people to understand this entire time.

[known_hero]

capn233 wrote...

A better question is are they ever going to change any weapon, mod, or power attributes in Single Player? That's probably a no unfortunately.

Yeah, that makes me sad

[Jernau11]

I regularly use a scoped Carniflex X in gold when I play an Asari. Stasis/Carniflex is how I take care of the little guys in combat ranges of 20 yards. The problem your having is that there aren't a lot of maps where engagement range is what it should be when using a sniper rifle. Sniper rifles are meant to hit at long distances. Most maps have engadgement ranges of 20-30 yards. The closest MP map where a sniper rifle makes sense is Hydra. You can tell its too close when the targets head is bigger than your entire scope view.

Also for someone who's not trying to influence play styles opening a thread called, "Should the scope mod be removed?" is probably silly. Removing a mod would force a change in play styles.

As far as it not being realistic, tell that to the guys at my range who shoot scoped revolvers.

Modifié par Jernau11, 05 mai 2012 - 06:22 .

[idspisp0pd]

capn233 wrote...

A better question is are they ever going to change any weapon, mod, or power attributes in Single Player? That's probably a no unfortunately.

Eh. Probably not a big deal, except for console players (like me) who can't edit coalesced.bin. Everyone else can go in and tweak stuff to their liking (see Spectre Difficulty, removing the weight mechanic, etc.). Fortunately, I really don't care that much if SP is balanced, or "fair" or whatever, as long as it's fun (and it is, for the most part).