130 réponses à ce sujet

[Nethershadow]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Nethershadow wrote...

People are just being lazy and taking the most advantageous route which i cant blame them for using pistol with scope, just another reason it needs to go. Leave the scope for the sniper and maybe the AR, remove it from all others.

It should be removed because it gives an advantage? Isn't that why we use any mod... ?

There is a difference between advantage and exploit, and most gamers dont know the difference because they naturally want to defend what they are using or "getting away with". Except for Inf class, this thread touches on why SR in general is a pointless category to have in the game.

We could prolly all agree that the categories for weapons are there to fullfill a role of sorts and weight is a very important factor. The fact that you can get a pistol that weighs far less and has about the same high damage as a sniper rifle, equal or better rof, little recoil ext, which in essences allows you to have almost all benefits of the SR without having to take the massive weight should tell you it is an exploit. If you cant see this then you are prolly better off using god mode cheats in a game.


Everyone using the "special weapon" arguement is again an exploiter defending what they are using or just dont understand some game balance. Same goes for "removing playstyle" arguement. Based on either logic we might as well have all guns have the same stats so it doesnt limit "playstyle" or make any "special weapons".

[capn233]

It is fairly standard for an exploit to be something that wasn't intended by the developers. In this case, the power and accuracy of pistols is in fact intended, so you can't call it an exploit even if it is much better than the alternatives. Just because the balance is wrong or you feel it is overpowered does not make it an exploit. It is a balance issue, but using it isn't an exploit if it falls within the realm of how they intended for the game to work.

Modifié par capn233, 06 mai 2012 - 03:23 .

[StarcloudSWG]

I can take the N7 Valiant Sniper Rifle instead of the Carnifex: I get inherent stabilization, inherent scope, and can still add two mods of my choice, for about the same weight, same damage, and a faster rate of fire.

Or I could take the Carnifex, mod it with a scope, and have one mod space left over.

So which is the 'better' weapon for sniping?

Hint: It's not the Carnifex.

[Nethershadow]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

I can take the N7 Valiant Sniper Rifle instead of the Carnifex: I get inherent stabilization, inherent scope, and can still add two mods of my choice, for about the same weight, same damage, and a faster rate of fire.

Or I could take the Carnifex, mod it with a scope, and have one mod space left over.

So which is the 'better' weapon for sniping?

Hint: It's not the Carnifex.

The sole fact that you can competively comare the best SR to a good Pistol like the Paladin in the Sniping category should tell you something is wrong. The extra bell and whistles on the SR sound nice on paper but when realistically tested like in MP they do not make much diff for your ability to kill just as quickly with a scope pistol.

Also we are not argueing what is THE best sniper in the game, we are debating that the Paladin performs very nearly as well as the best SR's in the game and better than the begginner-med SR but yet it is at half or less the weight of the SR's. Weight is a very important mechanic in this game. Why is the Paladin even able to compete against even basic SR's and dominate them? Play MP, you will see far far far more people using a carni or paly with scope then you will ever see true SR's excluding Inf. And i am pretty sure the SR category was not only put there for the Inf.

Partial sidenote, a couple people have already talked about bullet pen and impact damage of variour SR to Pistols, and Pistols fall very short in comparison.

And the guy that mentioned people at his gun range using scoped revolvers, well there is alot more not being said there as to how effective is it in comparison, range, damage,  ext.

[CuseGirl]

Nethershadow wrote...

The sole fact that you can competively comare the best SR to a good Pistol like the Paladin in the Sniping category should tell you something is wrong. The extra bell and whistles on the SR sound nice on paper but when realistically tested like in MP they do not make much diff for your ability to kill just as quickly with a scope pistol.

Also we are not argueing what is THE best sniper in the game, we are debating that the Paladin performs very nearly as well as the best SR's in the game and better than the begginner-med SR but yet it is at half or less the weight of the SR's. Weight is a very important mechanic in this game. Why is the Paladin even able to compete against even basic SR's and dominate them? Play MP, you will see far far far more people using a carni or paly with scope then you will ever see true SR's excluding Inf. And i am pretty sure the SR category was not only put there for the Inf.

Partial sidenote, a couple people have already talked about bullet pen and impact damage of variour SR to Pistols, and Pistols fall very short in comparison.

And the guy that mentioned people at his gun range using scoped revolvers, well there is alot more not being said there as to how effective is it in comparison, range, damage,  ext.

Dude, this discussion isnt about MP though. Thats the whole point. If you think a scoped Paladin performs as well as an SR and believe it inbalances a singlw player experience, then dont use it

[hoodaticus]

Pistols should be combat-ineffective beyond 40-50 yards, even with a scope, even in the future. Small barrels do not expel accurate shots.

[numark]

capn233 wrote...

A better question is are they ever going to change any weapon, mod, or power attributes in Single Player? That's probably a no unfortunately.

I think they did, with the M-37. At one point (at least on the wiki) it states that it's fire rate was much higher:

M-37 Falcon

[StarcloudSWG]

And that's the "niche protection" argument. No. The Carnifex is *not* a substitute for a sniper rifle. It simply isn't. It doesn't have the built-in advantages a sniper rifle does. It does't have the time-dilation properties a sniper rifle does. It doesn't have ANY built in mods.

The only thing the Carnifex is good for in "sniping" terms is short and mid-range headshots on stasised or immobile targets.

[bennyjammin79]

No.

[N7Kopper]

hoodaticus wrote...

Pistols should be combat-ineffective beyond 40-50 yards, even with a scope, even in the future. Small barrels do not expel accurate shots.

The SMG is the lightest weapon type in the game, thanks to ultralight materials. There are only two SMGs really worth your time in this game, both only in multiplayer. The Geth Plasma SMG needs to be modded into SP, and the N7 Hurricane is good only due to MP buffs.
Shepard can equip one of every weapon type, and is the only person who can.
Pistols are a good bit heavier. They can snipe heads off on lower difficulties or with the right setup. They don't, however, benefit from sniper passives such as the Infiltrator's concentration, or the concentration mod for sniper rifles. It's a game balance issue.

If you want sucky pistols that are relegated to sidearm duty, make them sidearms. Lightweight, fast-drawing, low powered, inaccurate. That would work for single player - though not multiplayer as there are only two weapon slots on your character in that mode.

It's the classic Videogame Pistol Split. They're either sidearms, with the accuracy, punch, and equip speed to match, or they're second only to the sniper rifle in accuracy. Game balance trumps realism, unless you're making a simulation. And this is sci-fi.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 06 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[JaegerBane]

Nethershadow wrote...
The sole fact that you can competively comare the best SR to a good Pistol like the Paladin in the Sniping category should tell you something is wrong.

True, but then I don't believe anyone was actually claiming that nothing was wrong, so I'm not sure what relevance this has.

As someone has said, this isn't about Multiplayer, so really, trying to bring that up is just clouding the original point of the thread.

And no, an exploit is something that involves the player 'exploiting' the game in a way the developers did not intend. Scopes and pistol stats are what they are, they haven't 'accidentally' been made like that. It isn't simply something you can label as an 'exploit' purely because you don't like it.

The basic issue, much as I dislike pistol scopes (or SMG scopes, for that matter) is that trying to 'balance' stuff by wholesale removal is counter-productive. Some people *like* scopes, and I personally don't see why my view should be elevated above theirs, as removal of the mods means that *they* can't use them.

Or, for that matter, I don't understand why your view should be elevated over theirs, either.

[JaegerBane]

hoodaticus wrote...

Pistols should be combat-ineffective beyond 40-50 yards, even with a scope, even in the future. Small barrels do not expel accurate shots.

This isn't relevant.

A) This is largely a question of game balance, so stuff about what real world pistols do is not relevant.

Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy according to the game's lore. That is only true of modern day conventional weapons with muzzle velocities low enough for the barrel length to matter..

[StarcloudSWG]

Yes, exactly. If you try to measure, in scale, the barrel lengths of the Mass Effect pistols, they come out to one or two inches. That's pretty short. If they were conventional firearms, they'd be rather less accurate than they are shown to be in game.

The Extended Barrels don't give more accuracy, they give more damage. That implies they're an extension of the accelerator mechanism.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 06 mai 2012 - 06:00 .

[Nethershadow]

JaegerBane wrote...

Nethershadow wrote...
The sole fact that you can competively comare the best SR to a good Pistol like the Paladin in the Sniping category should tell you something is wrong.

True, but then I don't believe anyone was actually claiming that nothing was wrong, so I'm not sure what relevance this has.

As someone has said, this isn't about Multiplayer, so really, trying to bring that up is just clouding the original point of the thread.

And no, an exploit is something that involves the player 'exploiting' the game in a way the developers did not intend. Scopes and pistol stats are what they are, they haven't 'accidentally' been made like that. It isn't simply something you can label as an 'exploit' purely because you don't like it.

The basic issue, much as I dislike pistol scopes (or SMG scopes, for that matter) is that trying to 'balance' stuff by wholesale removal is counter-productive. Some people *like* scopes, and I personally don't see why my view should be elevated above theirs, as removal of the mods means that *they* can't use them.

Or, for that matter, I don't understand why your view should be elevated over theirs, either.

The competively compare comment has alot to do with this thread, as in if scoped pistols so heavily undermine the SR category then scopes on pistols would be why. Take away pistol scopes and all of a sudden SR's, even the lower range ones become desirable compared to pistols. Even scoped AR's still have comparitive weight to SR's which keeps them much closer, but Pistols do not.

The only reason scoped pistols are so popular is because it gives you the power, range and rof of the SR or better, but weighs /2-3 times of the weight of a SR which allows you to have a 200% power recharge. Or if you want additional weapons you take a scope pistol to function as a SR.

I am not labelling it as an exploit simply because i dont like it. I label it as an exploit because it drastically undercuts the SR categories existence outside of Inf. The weight difference is so great, even compared to simular functioning SR with a better RoF that it has to be an exploit unless the devs say they intended scoped pistols to be a valid light weight alternative. It is an exploit because the gap of difference is to great and it has become a very easy way to get a low wieght SR which just happens to be superior to most SR's while still maintaining a high recharge %. I would also think that it would be an obvious exploit because does anyone here really think that a pistol would be a valid replacement to a SR? Do the devs? I have seen no comment from devs to say either way so this is just fan conjecture. Technically you can still be right by calling it a advantage, but then both terms sit pretty close as is.

I am not Only referencing MP in this, but the stats are simular enough that it shows the same trend there that exists in SP for scoped pistols replacing SR's.

It doesnt matter if 'some' people like scopes on thier pistols, game balance needs to be put ahead of those individuals desires first, including myself. Buffing SR's would be crazy because if anything that would throw balance out of whach far more i am thinking.
As for nerfing / removing scopes from pistols, well it is a part of life and the people that cannot handle it need to grow up. Most people are only concerned about how things affect them, which is understandable but it also means those same peoples opinions have less weight when talking about what is best overall in that category.

Otherwise game devs should just give the players everything they want and damn the balance. So i want a space ninja class that can carry the best of every weapon and still have 200% recharge and have at least 2 powers that are ideal vs each defense, so i can have a unique playstyle without any special weapons.

[Nethershadow]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

And that's the "niche protection" argument. No. The Carnifex is *not* a substitute for a sniper rifle. It simply isn't. It doesn't have the built-in advantages a sniper rifle does. It does't have the time-dilation properties a sniper rifle does. It doesn't have ANY built in mods.

The only thing the Carnifex is good for in "sniping" terms is short and mid-range headshots on stasised or immobile targets.

Maybe you havent played with a scoped Carni or Pally as I like many others can snipe headshots just fine withouth time dilation or the other built-in advantages. I can get headshots fairly easy with any weapon in the game without out to much difficulty but at closer ranges without a scope. With a scope i can snipe headshots at any range. I am not amazing compared to many of the peeps on these boards who can do the same or better.

The extra built in mods are not as amazing as you make them sound. Most kills never need cover penetration and teh ones that do are easily side stepped.

By saying it is not a valid substitute is wrong when soo many players are using it as such hence the reason for this thread.

But honestly your post comes across as in you refuse to believe that the upstart pistols could dare lay claim to being as good as SR's to me, regardless of the truth, as grey as that may be atm.

[CuseGirl]

Nethershadow wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

And that's the "niche protection" argument. No. The Carnifex is *not* a substitute for a sniper rifle. It simply isn't. It doesn't have the built-in advantages a sniper rifle does. It does't have the time-dilation properties a sniper rifle does. It doesn't have ANY built in mods.

The only thing the Carnifex is good for in "sniping" terms is short and mid-range headshots on stasised or immobile targets.

Maybe you havent played with a scoped Carni or Pally as I like many others can snipe headshots just fine withouth time dilation or the other built-in advantages. I can get headshots fairly easy with any weapon in the game without out to much difficulty but at closer ranges without a scope. With a scope i can snipe headshots at any range. I am not amazing compared to many of the peeps on these boards who can do the same or better.

The extra built in mods are not as amazing as you make them sound. Most kills never need cover penetration and teh ones that do are easily side stepped.

By saying it is not a valid substitute is wrong when soo many players are using it as such hence the reason for this thread.

But honestly your post comes across as in you refuse to believe that the upstart pistols could dare lay claim to being as good as SR's to me, regardless of the truth, as grey as that may be atm.

This is a PERSONAL issue. YOU yourself have no issue getting headshots with a sniper rifle or scoped paladin. In YOUR opinion, the built in mods to the SR aren't so good. Obviously, other fans feel differently.

I rarely get headshots on anything, I'm too busy trying not to get shot at all and I actually spend a lot of time paused in my power wheel. That's how I play the game. You want the game balanced so that people you are not interacting with can.....what? Not use the paladin/carnifex in the manner they want? Be forced to use the sniper rifle and not use their powers because the cool down is too long? Use the paladin up close even though that may negate the use for a shotgun?

It really is as simple as the earlier statements: If you don't like it (in single player), don't use it. The Kassa Locust was my best friend in ME-2. Got an SMG in ME-3, it's a pea shooter. I don't use any SMGs now. I haven't asked for the SMG's damage output to be increased. This is the SMG Bioware thinks belongs in the game. So I don't use it.

[Nethershadow]

CuseGirl wrote...

Nethershadow wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

And that's the "niche protection" argument. No. The Carnifex is *not* a substitute for a sniper rifle. It simply isn't. It doesn't have the built-in advantages a sniper rifle does. It does't have the time-dilation properties a sniper rifle does. It doesn't have ANY built in mods.

The only thing the Carnifex is good for in "sniping" terms is short and mid-range headshots on stasised or immobile targets.

Maybe you havent played with a scoped Carni or Pally as I like many others can snipe headshots just fine withouth time dilation or the other built-in advantages. I can get headshots fairly easy with any weapon in the game without out to much difficulty but at closer ranges without a scope. With a scope i can snipe headshots at any range. I am not amazing compared to many of the peeps on these boards who can do the same or better.

The extra built in mods are not as amazing as you make them sound. Most kills never need cover penetration and teh ones that do are easily side stepped.

By saying it is not a valid substitute is wrong when soo many players are using it as such hence the reason for this thread.

But honestly your post comes across as in you refuse to believe that the upstart pistols could dare lay claim to being as good as SR's to me, regardless of the truth, as grey as that may be atm.

This is a PERSONAL issue. YOU yourself have no issue getting headshots with a sniper rifle or scoped paladin. In YOUR opinion, the built in mods to the SR aren't so good. Obviously, other fans feel differently.

I rarely get headshots on anything, I'm too busy trying not to get shot at all and I actually spend a lot of time paused in my power wheel. That's how I play the game. You want the game balanced so that people you are not interacting with can.....what? Not use the paladin/carnifex in the manner they want? Be forced to use the sniper rifle and not use their powers because the cool down is too long? Use the paladin up close even though that may negate the use for a shotgun?

It really is as simple as the earlier statements: If you don't like it (in single player), don't use it. The Kassa Locust was my best friend in ME-2. Got an SMG in ME-3, it's a pea shooter. I don't use any SMGs now. I haven't asked for the SMG's damage output to be increased. This is the SMG Bioware thinks belongs in the game. So I don't use it.

There is nothing personal about it. I am all for play the game the way you want, but that doesnt mean you should have everything the way you want it over game balance.
Seeing how you just posted "Your Opinion" on the forums, I will let you in on a secret most others already know, if you are debating on forums then it is all your opinion short of providing actuall stats or proof like dev comments. I didnt think this needed to be explained but maybe you are new to this.

What do you think the purpose of the sniper rifle is? Long range engagement possibly?
If you have a hard time getting headshots then a scope on a pistol wont help you anymore, and may just be more difficult for you. You would be better off with the assault style SR's like the Raptor or Indra to allow you time dilation to get headshots. Players like you actually benefit from SR's, but for many others that dont have difficulty with headshots can "cheat" the weight mechanic and just go scope pistol.
That is what the difficulty setting is for, so players can play how they want.
Game balance is making sure that the weapon categories have a purpose, like the SR.  If you want to snipe, then yes you should have to take a hit to your cooldowns to take the big weapon that has the longest range. I dont think your understanding that scope on pistol allows you to perform just as well or better than a sniper rifle without the weight or cd penalty. No other weapons in the game offer such drastic differences like this.

What sniper rifles have built in mods? As far as i know they all have a scope, but only a couple high end ones like Widows have built in Cover AP, and then the Javelin has smoke scoping. If there is more than feel free to correct me but that is what 3 SR's that have the benefits mentioned? I hardly consider that the "inherent properties" of the SR category.

Why do you think it is balanced that a scoped pistol like Paladin can out perform high end SR like Widow? Pally has better RoF for same or close to same damage. This pistol setup is far better than the majority of SR's because it is almost 1/3rd the weight of the SR's. This only has effect at long range, as the Pally up close is just fine.  Scoped pistol ruin the long range benefit of the SR..

I have already explained the points on why a scope on a pistol is bad, you need to read that and if you have then just agree to disagree.

[StarcloudSWG]

Ultimately, it seems to personally offend you that pistols can be used in the "sniper" role. In Single Player, it literally does not matter. Nothing I do in single-player will ever affect you in any way, shape, or form. You dont' even know whether I've put a scope on a pistol in single-player or not. You don't know if I've even *used* a sniper rifle.

So why does it matter to YOU that pistols have scopes on them? Why is it important to YOU to deny OTHER PEOPLE the use of scopes on pistols in single player?

Why do YOU feel that YOUR game design ideas take precedence over people wanting to play however they like, in single player?

Because I don't agree. I don't think that pistols are "all that." The Carnifex is not my first choice of weapon to snipe with. Neither is the Paladin. I'd rather have the integral time dilation effect, integrated scope, and space to decide between TWO of the following: more ammo, more damage, more time dilation and accuracy, more cover penetration (1.35 meters), and even more scope benefits.

The Paladin, for instance? Take a scope. Then you can choose ONE of the following. Melee bonus, more ammo, more damage, or cover penetration (.35 meters)

It might be "adequate" but it's not designed for the task of sniping.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 07 mai 2012 - 01:45 .

[Nethershadow]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Ultimately, it seems to personally offend you that pistols can be used in the "sniper" role. In Single Player, it literally does not matter. Nothing I do in single-player will ever affect you in any way, shape, or form. You dont' even know whether I've put a scope on a pistol in single-player or not. You don't know if I've even *used* a sniper rifle.

So why does it matter to YOU that pistols have scopes on them? Why is it important to YOU to deny OTHER PEOPLE the use of scopes on pistols in single player?

Why do YOU feel that YOUR game design ideas take precedence over people wanting to play however they like, in single player?

Because I don't agree. I don't think that pistols are "all that." The Carnifex is not my first choice of weapon to snipe with. Neither is the Paladin. I'd rather have the integral time dilation effect, integrated scope, and space to decide between TWO of the following: more ammo, more damage, more time dilation and accuracy, more cover penetration (1.35 meters), and even more scope benefits.

The Paladin, for instance? Take a scope. Then you can choose ONE of the following. Melee bonus, more ammo, more damage, or cover penetration (.35 meters)

It might be "adequate" but it's not designed for the task of sniping.

I'm not offended at all, personally or otherwise. I just like good game balance and this logically strays from what is in game already. It is also the same reason why devs put out game updates that affect these aspects. It is not a common occurence but it does happen.

The Mattock in ME2 was godly and broken, and now in ME3 they decided to adjust its stats to be balanced. Well it definately is not even close to what it use to be, but if no one cared about game balance in a SP game then why worry about putting constraints on anything in it. Let us put time dilation on every weapon and while they are at it give me 500% more health and shields because it doesnt affect anyone else... 

So just because i dont interact with you in your game, doesnt mean the game should have elements like scoped pistols that mostly neutralize a weapon category like SR, or many other broken aspects. 

Even in SP games, how the mechanics and balance work affect everyone that plays it. Not directly but the failures or errors are remembered as what not to do in the future, aka Mattock example. Doesnt really affect your game very much now but again i like a good balanced game. Thats what this discussion was about.

[Shajar]

CoD has uzi snipers, why we cant have QQ?
I agree, its stupid

[JaegerBane]

Nethershadow wrote...
It doesnt matter if 'some' people like scopes on thier pistols, game balance needs to be put ahead of those individuals desires first, including myself. Buffing SR's would be crazy because if anything that would throw balance out of whach far more i am thinking.
As for nerfing / removing scopes from pistols, well it is a part of life and the people that cannot handle it need to grow up.

Nethershadow, I think you need to take a long, hard look at these paragraphs, ask yourself the question as to precisely what point your personal view became the paradigm to balance a game by, and ask yourself if that sounds rational.

I don't think I've read something this outrageously arrogant for a very long time.

Seriously, do you have any idea how you're coming across? Do you not realise that someone spouting such bile is going to be the last person anyone, including the devs, are going to listen to?

Coming up with pompous nonsense like 'balance must be put ahead of all views' just demonstrates you don't have a grip on what is actually being discussed here. We're not talking about some massive, fundamental situation that single-handedly wipes out any flow of play in the game, we're talking about a minor issue that appears only if the player chooses to uses it. Overall game balance is not going to be affected by the presence or absence of pistol scopes, do please, don't try to excuse your view for anything other than what it actually is.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 07 mai 2012 - 10:30 .

[Nethershadow]

JaegerBane wrote...

Nethershadow wrote...
It doesnt matter if 'some' people like scopes on thier pistols, game balance needs to be put ahead of those individuals desires first, including myself. Buffing SR's would be crazy because if anything that would throw balance out of whach far more i am thinking.
As for nerfing / removing scopes from pistols, well it is a part of life and the people that cannot handle it need to grow up.

Nethershadow, I think you need to take a long, hard look at these paragraphs, ask yourself the question as to precisely what point your personal view became the paradigm to balance a game by, and ask yourself if that sounds rational.

I don't think I've read something this outrageously arrogant for a very long time.

Seriously, do you have any idea how you're coming across? Do you not realise that someone spouting such bile is going to be the last person anyone, including the devs, are going to listen to?

Coming up with pompous nonsense like 'balance must be put ahead of all views' just demonstrates you don't have a grip on what is actually being discussed here. We're not talking about some massive, fundamental situation that single-handedly wipes out any flow of play in the game, we're talking about a minor issue that appears only if the player chooses to uses it. Overall game balance is not going to be affected by the presence or absence of pistol scopes, do please, don't try to excuse your view for anything other than what it actually is.

It is called debating. You either have an opinion or you dont, and so far the responses i have seen against my points seem weak reasons.

Regardless if you see me as arrogant or not, it does not bother me, but what points have i said that are so hate filled that you regard them as bile?

When have i said i speak for anyone other than myself? I might be arrogant but that doesnt diminish the points i have made.

I am not here trying to convince the devs to make changes, as they know the issues about thier game. I am here to debate this topic though. Why are you here?

I am debating the validity of scopes on pistols, just what the thread is about. The counter points imo are weak responses to logic i have offered. If you can give other reasons than pls share, but if you dont want to debate the topic then posts like this have no point and become trolling instead.

I dont think this is a massive game issue as you seem to suggest about me, nor have i indicated that in my posts.

[JaegerBane]

Nethershadow wrote...
but what points have i said that are so hate filled that you regard them as bile?

Off the top of my head....

"It doesnt matter if 'some' people like scopes on thier pistols, game balance needs to be put ahead of those individuals desires first..."

"As for nerfing / removing scopes from pistols, well it is a part of life and the people that cannot handle it need to grow up..."

"Most people are only concerned about how things affect them, which is understandable but it also means those same peoples opinions have less weight when talking about what is best overall in that category...."


Taken together, the implication is that anyone who doesn't think as you do is somehow deficient, juvenile, incapable of giving an equal argument etc etc etc. I.e., its essentially coming across like you seem to think everyone who isn't saying as you do is not qualified to be arguing.

Regardless of whether you were trying to make a point to the devs or just bellyaching for the sake of it, such an attitude is not conducive to discussion or debate, and hence is not worth anyone's time.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 07 mai 2012 - 05:06 .

[Nethershadow]

JaegerBane wrote...

Nethershadow wrote...
but what points have i said that are so hate filled that you regard them as bile?

Off the top of my head....

"It doesnt matter if 'some' people like scopes on thier pistols, game balance needs to be put ahead of those individuals desires first..."

"As for nerfing / removing scopes from pistols, well it is a part of life and the people that cannot handle it need to grow up..."

"Most people are only concerned about how things affect them, which is understandable but it also means those same peoples opinions have less weight when talking about what is best overall in that category...."


Taken together, the implication is that anyone who doesn't think as you do is somehow deficient, juvenile, incapable of giving an equal argument etc etc etc. I.e., its essentially coming across like you seem to think everyone who isn't saying as you do is not qualified to be arguing.

Regardless of whether you were trying to make a point to the devs or just bellyaching for the sake of it, such an attitude is not conducive to discussion or debate, and hence is not worth anyone's time.

So you take those comments to be bitter? If so then maybe you just cant interpret the meaning. They are far from bitter, and they suggest maturity is needed.

The first one should be simple, it mentions that the whole is more important than the individual. So basically dont be to self serving that it takes away from many others. Maybe it sounds cliche, but i was not trying to sound philosophical, i really do feel that way. Where is the bitterness or as you say 'bile' in that? Being in charge of other people teaches you that if you havent learned it already.

Everything has ups and downs, or gains and losses, it is a natural aspect of life. Many children just want want want, even when thier want puts other children at a loss or disadvantage. So to be fair to all of them you take away and redistrube, but the child(ren) losing some ends up having a hissy fit or spaz. Eventually they grow up and understand fairness. Again, where is the bitterness in suggesting people be fair?

The third one, from my life experience this is a norm. When you are the one that has to pass judgement or enforce the rules, you try to be understanding but again fair for all. It is natural for people to be concerned about themselves first and maybe only concerned about themselves, and when those people are given the power to make rules or enforce them, those rules quickly become abused making things very unfair for everyone else. You still see bile here?

Maybe my comments have rubbed you the wrong way, for whatever reason you greatly dislike them, but i have nothing against you and i have agreed with some comments you have made in other threads but here in this thread you are mentally fabricating agression towards you that is not there. Your the only person in this thread that felt the need to attack my character / attitude instead of just debating the points.

My points might be blunt but they are only intended in a beneficial way. So if you find my comments insulting to you, then you can choose to ignore me or flag me to the admins which I am not concerned with as i am confident I have not attacked anyone ext.

So on topic, i dont see any other fix to this issue than removing the scope from pistols. Doesnt mean there isnt any, just i havent forseen any nor has there been any other suggestions. I could see them trying to drop acc into the ground but i have seen many fps that cant make that work. Closest and best thing so far is how shotguns function for short range and quickly loose power over distance, but that is also a cone effect vs 1 direct line.

Modifié par Nethershadow, 08 mai 2012 - 12:36 .

[ArtGerhardt]

The biggest issue with the scoped AR vs Sniper rifle is that there aren't really any LONG distance moments of the game. There are few with good distance, but nothing compared to a battlefield 3 map. I don't expect maps as big as full sized BF3 maps but for a battle with reapers it wold have been great to have some battlefields that were 500+ meters long. Maybe like 750. It would make snipers and scoped AR's fill different roles.

The multiplayer maps are rediculously small. Aside from a few select spots in a few maps, it's very cramped for snipers.