233 réponses à ce sujet

[Reth Shepherd]

Optimystic_X said...
Synthesis isn't meant to stop organic-organic conflicts. The Catalyst doesn't care about those. So conflict with each other for "anatomical differences" and picking on your sister or whatever really aren't relevant to his goals.

Judging by your previous posts, I don't believe either of us will convince one another of our viewpoints, but regardless, this is where I was going with that example. *salute*

While Synthesis may not be meant to prevent organic/organic conflicts, the point remains that organic/organic conflicts and how easily they form despite organic/organic similarities compared to organic/synthetic, suggest that Synthesis will therefore not work unless there are changes to thought patterns. Aka: we are more similar to one another than we are to synthetics. If we can't even make ourselves look past those relatively small differences, there's going to be even bigger issues trying to get everyone to make peace with a race with bigger differences. And since the point of Synthesis is forcibly setting everyone up to get along, there have to be changes to the way everyone thinks or we will go right back to "you have head spikes, I don't like you" and "you have a flashlight head, I don't like you".

EDIT: Different example. Let's take a random high-ranking officer in Cerberus. We can pretty much take for granted that he's a human supremicist and general all-around jerk. How does Synthesis work that he suddenly no longer cares that the girl over here is Turian, or that the 'guy' over there is Geth? If there are no mental changes, what happens to make even bigoted people see reason?

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 04 mai 2012 - 04:09 .

[ArchDuck]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Optimystic_X said...
Synthesis isn't meant to stop organic-organic conflicts. The Catalyst doesn't care about those. So conflict with each other for "anatomical differences" and picking on your sister or whatever really aren't relevant to his goals.

Judging by your previous posts, I don't believe either of us will convince one another of our viewpoints, but regardless, this is where I was going with that example. *salute*

While Synthesis may not be meant to prevent organic/organic conflicts, the point remains that organic/organic conflicts and how easily they form despite organic/organic similarities compared to organic/synthetic, suggest that Synthesis will therefore not work unless there are changes to thought patterns. Aka: we are more similar to one another than we are to synthetics. If we can't even make ourselves look past those relatively small differences, there's going to be even bigger issues trying to get everyone to make peace with a race with bigger differences. And since the point of Synthesis is forcibly setting everyone up to get along, there have to be changes to the way everyone thinks or we will go right back to "you have head spikes, I don't like you" and "you have a flashlight head, I don't like you".

EDIT: Different example. Let's take a random high-ranking officer in Cerberus. We can pretty much take for granted that he's a human supremicist and general all-around jerk. How does Synthesis work that he suddenly no longer cares that the girl over here is Turian, or that the 'guy' over there is Geth? If there are no mental changes, what happens to make even bigoted people see reason?

Funny enough I think I see the reasoning. If I am not mistaken the argument is that the catalyst is pulling a trick-a-roo.

He is concerned with fulfilling his goal in a technical definition sense not in a meaningful one. Synthesis does (at least for awhile) stop any organic/synthetic conflict by turning them into hybrid/hybrid conflicts. Until more organics develop (which ignoring lab creation will take quite awhile before a life forming amino acid soup world makes more) the catalyst gets to pull a 'Mission Accomplished' and go vacationing with his Reapers.

He doesn't care whether it solves anything he just cares that it solves the limited problem he is supposed to be monitoring. Brillaint!

Also what an assh*le!

[TheTrueObelus]

Synthesis is a Reaper solution. The character I played through 99% of the game would never accept it.

It's a solution forced on your allies...not a solution to defeat your enemies.

Modifié par TheTrueObelus, 04 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

    Finally the Wrex thing is completely blown out of proportions. Wrex is a leader for his people but he certainly can't force them to do everything he wants them to do. If Wrex went too far the clans are completely open to scheming, planning, revolting, and/or assassinating him. Even his own clan has the option to usurp him if need be. The clans follow Wrex, because like the democratic Geth, the majority overrules the minority. Even Wrex himself said they follow him in ME2 because the other clans like what he's doing.

Of course the Wrex thing I said is blown out of proportions! That's the point: using sarcasm/exaggeration to convey the idea. What I said in the OP was nonsense, but it's the same line of thinking people have about synthesis. Nonsense.

And to that end, it is remarkable how many people think that what I wrote about Wrex was serious.

But, you're kind of wrong about a couple things. Wrex can force his people to do things, as a consequence of him being leader. It's pretty clear that Fortack is being forced to do things he doesn't want to. We don't know how Wrex is keeping him in-line, but these ARE krogan afterall, so let's use our imagination. The krogan are probably nothing like democratic geth either.

And, you think other clans don't hate Wrex, nor conspire against him? I'd make a pretty strong wager that they do. His brother (somone within his clan, btw) pulls a shotgun on when we see them together on Tuchanka.

The point is basically this. I can see where Synthesis has some real potential advantages for organic life, and as a leader, I have to make the decisions that benefit
people - even if they like or agree with it. Like Wrex leading the krogan people.

[antares_sublight]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
as a leader, I have to make the decisions that benefit people - even if they [don't] like or agree with it

Hello fascism.

I'm pretty sure Shepard is not the dictator of all organic life in the galaxy. He's not even an Admiral, he's a Commander. He's a subordinate in the military.

He was tasked with destroying the Reapers, I don't think modifying the DNA of every living thing in the galaxy was on the order assignment.

Modifié par antares_sublight, 04 mai 2012 - 08:18 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

antares_sublight wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
as a leader, I have to make the decisions that benefit people - even if they [don't] like or agree with it

Hello fascism.

I'm pretty sure Shepard is not the dictator of all organic life in the galaxy. He's not even an Admiral, he's a Commander. He's a subordinate in the military.

He was tasked with destroying the Reapers, I don't think modifying the DNA of every living thing in the galaxy was on the order assignment.

It happens in democracies too.

In fact, democratically-elected leaders are more apt to do the wrong thing to stay in office than do the right thing that will get them voted out.




Oh, and I updated the OP again.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[zambingo]

@HYR 2.0

1. Legion, a Geth, is leading the Geth into the direction the Geth came to consensus on. They are deciding their own fate.

2. Wrex is the leader of the primary clan on his planet. The Krogan run with a Might Makes Right philosophy (which is eww but that is their way), he is Krogan and the Krogan follow him. They together decide their fate.

3. Synthesis is one human (or technically the Reapers) forcing Everything into being a cyborg.

If you don't get the difference there. [shrugs] whatevs

[SirCroft]

Legion could only upload the code to those he was connected to, which means, as they are machines, he certainly contacted everyone.
They reached consensus.

Modifié par SirCroft, 04 mai 2012 - 08:39 .

[Redwing198403]

Got to say I think your op has gone right off the rails... I get that you may feel defensive because synthesis gets a fair amount of hate but wow. Also just because TIM forced sythetics and ressurection on Shep doesn't mean Shep should / agrees with doing the same to the entire galaxy. Also with Wrex as said by another krogan in ME2 if his ideas don't pan out he will be over thrown and a new krogan will try it their way... Not the same as synthesis.