233 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

All of the ending choices present moral dilemas, which is the point. A force like the Reapers can't just be beaten, something drastic needs to be done. You've got destroy, which is, of course, what the Reapers deserve, but do they truly deserve it at the cost of your synthetic allies? You've got control, which spares the Reapers, and basically bends them to your will. Certainly a more merciful end than they deserve. Then you've got synthesis, strengthening (not homogenizing, I don't know what asscrack haters pulled that one out of) all organic DNA and having some organic effect on inorganics (probably similar to what the Reaper upgrades did to the Geth in making them have more organic thought processes), but is it right to make that decision all by yourself on behalf of the entire galaxy? Really it comes down to personal choice, there's no universal right or wrong way to go with the ending choices, they've all got their upsides and downsides from a moral perspective.

[PsyrenY]

FJVP wrote...

Synthesis forces everyone to be the same.

This argument is now completely brown from having been pulled out of so many asses.

[FJVP]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Nice try. No wait, actually, very poor try.

Right back at ya 

[FatalX7.0]

Optimystic_X wrote...

FJVP wrote...

Synthesis forces everyone to be the same.

This argument is now completely brown from having been pulled out of so many asses.

What is synthesis?

[Jenonax]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Fail post is fail.

Fixed it for you! 

Oh, there I go again. Correct a mistake without the individual's consent.

WHAT HAVE I DONE???

Yes, that darned consent!  Get's in the way of everything!  What a lovely world it would be if we could just go around deciding the fate of every living being in the galaxy with no input whatsoever ... oh wait, no that would be terrible.

[Bill Casey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Then be sure to back it up... don't let that evil syntheic bastard, alias LEGION, upload the Reaper code to give all his people intelligence. He's forcing that choice on all his people, against their will!!! Who gave him the right to decide what's best for everyone? Give him what he deserves: a knife in the back, and then shoot him like the mad dog that he is.

Actually, the Geth had already made the decision to accept Reaper code upgrades to prevent their own destruction at the hands of the Quarians...

Legion is respecting their wishes by reiterating and reinforcing that decision...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 mai 2012 - 09:36 .

[TreguardD]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Then be sure to back it up... don't let that evil syntheic bastard, alias LEGION, upload the Reaper code to give all his people intelligence. He's forcing that choice on all his people, against their will!!! Who gave him the right to decide what's best for everyone? Give him what he deserves: a knife in the back, and then shoot him like the mad dog that he is.



There is another way, however. Join the enlightened side. And then, you might just be able to broker peace in that war. 

The Geth formed a Consensus

I will be happy to join Synthesis as soon as I am able to ask any other sentient for their opinion.

[His Name was HYR!!]

EsterCloat wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Legion is networked into all other geth. They're a hive mind. When he made that decision, it was a decision decided by ALL geth. He didn't force it on anyone. They chose it together.

Shepard, with his organic brain and non-hive mind, has no such connection and ability to decide with everyone.

I still wanted to have words with Legion about using Reaper code in the first place but it has nothing to do with allegedly "forcing" it on his people.

Nope! He's only networked to around 1k programs, a very small total population of the geth.

Legion can upload the Reaper code to all other geth which means he has a connection to all other geth which means he is networked to all other geth. I doubt it's a one way connection that he can only upload to so he could easily ask all other geth, "Do we use Reaper code to not die?" with no reason not to.

Ooh, um... what is a "leap" - ?

Yay! I win Jeopardy! :happy:

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Yeah, he was green and glowy like everything and everyone else.

HAHAHAHA!

That's like saying "they're all the same because they all have eyes, ears, a nose and a mouth."

Epic logic fail.

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

/thread

I happen to agree. But synthetics not being like organics doesn't mean that this is necessarily different. You might believe that killing the geth is no big deal because they are machines, but if you try to side with the quarians on that mission, Legion will fight you for the right to survive. If he saw himself as just a machine, what would it matter?

Er, Legion is discussing the topic of rewriting Geth, not killing Geth.
Neither Legion or me think it is okay to kill machines. Legion is talking about the fact that the Geth, as a group, do not necesarilly regard individual free will as organics do. They self-determinate as a species, and Legion in ME3 doesn't contradict that.

[FatalX7.0]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Legion is networked into all other geth. They're a hive mind. When he made that decision, it was a decision decided by ALL geth. He didn't force it on anyone. They chose it together.

Shepard, with his organic brain and non-hive mind, has no such connection and ability to decide with everyone.

I still wanted to have words with Legion about using Reaper code in the first place but it has nothing to do with allegedly "forcing" it on his people.

Nope! He's only networked to around 1k programs, a very small total population of the geth.

Legion can upload the Reaper code to all other geth which means he has a connection to all other geth which means he is networked to all other geth. I doubt it's a one way connection that he can only upload to so he could easily ask all other geth, "Do we use Reaper code to not die?" with no reason not to.

Ooh, um... what is a "leap" - ?

Yay! I win Jeopardy! :happy:

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Yeah, he was green and glowy like everything and everyone else.

HAHAHAHA!

That's like saying "they're all the same because they all have eyes, ears, a nose and a mouth."

Epic logic fail.

You're really rude.

Also, you're slightly stupid for taking that seriously.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Let's suppose Legion did try to network to other geth before deciding,

... are you saying that every single geth supported the idea? That not one opposed? There very well may have been dissenting opinions that were ultimately forced to change, not far-fetched to think it when we're talking about the same guy (Legion) who was saying in the last installment how geth should not accept gifts from the Old Machines and "build their own" future. And those like-minded geth made up 95% of their people.

So, odds are pretty high that he truly did "force" his opinion on the rest of them.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 03 mai 2012 - 09:38 .

[Bill Casey]

The Angry One wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

/thread

[Hadeedak]

I always thought control was the "Pull a Legion" option. Kill Shepard to spread his/her code.

[4stringwizard]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Then be sure to back it up... don't let that evil syntheic bastard, alias LEGION, upload the Reaper code to give all his people intelligence. He's forcing that choice on all his people, against their will!!! Who gave him the right to decide what's best for everyone? Give him what he deserves: a knife in the back, and then shoot him like the mad dog that he is.



There is another way, however. Join the enlightened side. And then, you might just be able to broker peace in that war. 

As I'm sure has already been stated, the Geth had already willingly sided with the Reapers and used their upgrades.  Legion did what the Geth had already wanted.  Also, the Geth are already synthetic, it's not as if Legion is forcing them to be part organic.  Nowhere even near the same situation as "Synthesis" was.  

Fail thread is fail. 

[Mr.House]

Hadeedak wrote...

I always thought control was the "Pull a Legion" option. Kill Shepard to spread his/her code.

Images...

[His Name was HYR!!]

The Angry One wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

/thread

I happen to agree. But synthetics not being like organics doesn't mean that this is necessarily different. You might believe that killing the geth is no big deal because they are machines, but if you try to side with the quarians on that mission, Legion will fight you for the right to survive. If he saw himself as just a machine, what would it matter?

Er, Legion is discussing the topic of rewriting Geth, not killing Geth.
Neither Legion or me think it is okay to kill machines. Legion is talking about the fact that the Geth, as a group, do not necesarilly regard individual free will as organics do. They self-determinate as a species, and Legion in ME3 doesn't contradict that.

As I recall, he had no problem killing off the heretics either. Just under half of his programs supported it.

So much for allowing them to self-determinate.

[His Name was HYR!!]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

You're really rude.

Also, you're slightly stupid for taking that seriously.

Why? I'm pretty sure many people seriously think that.

[Hadeedak]

Mr.House wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

I always thought control was the "Pull a Legion" option. Kill Shepard to spread his/her code.

Images...

Eh?

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

As I recall, he had no problem killing off the heretics either. Just under half of his programs supported it.

So much for allowing them to self-determinate.

Yes, but that particular dialog is on rewriting them.

Yeah I think the freedom to self-determinate ends when they're trying to kill you. Or in the Heretic's case, worse, trying to make all Geth worship the Reapers.

[sistersafetypin]

EsterCloat wrote...

Legion is networked into all other geth. They're a hive mind. When he made that decision, it was a decision decided by ALL geth. He didn't force it on anyone. They chose it together.

Shepard, with his organic brain and non-hive mind, has no such connection and ability to decide with everyone.

I still wanted to have words with Legion about using Reaper code in the first place but it has nothing to do with allegedly "forcing" it on his people.

This. Legion is a singular platform that represents all of his people. They are all Geth, hence: Legion. The only issue I had trouble with was in ME2 deciding whether to re-write the heratics or not, and considering it was rewrite them and gain allies or destroy them it wasn't that hard of a choice

[Bill Casey]

OP doesn't understand how Geth work...

[PsyrenY]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

What is synthesis?

Merging organics (with all their myriad variations) with synthetics (with all their slightly less myriad variations.)

It's not simply "A + B = AB" because within A, you have AA1, AA2, AA3, AA4.... each of which would result in a different phenotype.

[eddieoctane]

EsterCloat wrote...

Legion is networked into all other geth. They're a hive mind. When he made that decision, it was a decision decided by ALL geth. He didn't force it on anyone. They chose it together.

Shepard, with his organic brain and non-hive mind, has no such connection and ability to decide with everyone.

Exactly. Legion would have been in communication with the other Geth, otherwise his "upload" would have been a lot more complicated than simply falling over as his code leaves the local platform.

I still wanted to have words with Legion about using Reaper code in the first place but it has nothing to do with allegedly "forcing" it on his people.

I'd rather have words with the Quarian admiralty for not listening to a goddam word I said about not starting another conflict with the Geth. "Hey the Reapers are attacking. This would make a great opportunity to start another war and then remain stationary." /facepalm

I settled for punching one of them. Still, several heads should have been cracked for that whole fiasco.

Modifié par eddieoctane, 03 mai 2012 - 09:49 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

4stringwizard wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Then be sure to back it up... don't let that evil syntheic bastard, alias LEGION, upload the Reaper code to give all his people intelligence. He's forcing that choice on all his people, against their will!!! Who gave him the right to decide what's best for everyone? Give him what he deserves: a knife in the back, and then shoot him like the mad dog that he is.



There is another way, however. Join the enlightened side. And then, you might just be able to broker peace in that war. 

As I'm sure has already been stated, the Geth had already willingly sided with the Reapers and used their upgrades.  Legion did what the Geth had already wanted.  Also, the Geth are already synthetic, it's not as if Legion is forcing them to be part organic.  Nowhere even near the same situation as "Synthesis" was.  

Sorry. Not seeing the difference.

The geth sided with the Reapers because the quarians threatened their existence. They didn't have a choice to refuse the Reaper upgrades as a result, so it wasn't a matter of what any of them wanted.

Also, Legion admired the upgrades as it gave his people a chance to become true individual intelligences, which is something that his people otherwise are not. So he's completely changing the properties of his people. And it is still not clear if all the geth wanted the upgrade that Legion uploads should you allow him. So no, it is very much in the same mold as Synthesis.

[Dendio1]

Sohlito wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

/thread

"Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism".

Needs to be on a shirt.

Agreed. People should hold a movement over this shirt. How dare you cloth your dog likes its human....you racist!

Modifié par Dendio1, 03 mai 2012 - 09:55 .