233 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

antares_sublight wrote...
Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

 Synthesis doesn't do anything like that.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

[frylock23]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Then be sure to back it up... don't let that evil syntheic bastard, alias LEGION, upload the Reaper code to give all his people intelligence. He's forcing that choice on all his people, against their will!!! Who gave him the right to decide what's best for everyone? Give him what he deserves: a knife in the back, and then shoot him like the mad dog that he is.



There is another way, however. Join the enlightened side. And then, you might just be able to broker peace in that war. 

Eh, since I couldn't broker a peace either way. I did wind up putting a knife in his back. It was either that or side with a race that had twice sided with the Reapers. As reprehensible as the Quarians' treatment of the Geth was, they had never sided with the Reapers.

[ArchDuck]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

So you changed everybody and everything for... no reason and no end result?

"New and Improved! Now with more Glow!"

[frylock23]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Well, if it doesn't get rid of those things, then what's the point. It seems like an empty violation of everyone for no discernible gain. It can't ensure lasting peace, it doesn't get rid of disease, so what point does it have? It seems you've shot your own advantages in the foot.

I'm hardly going to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy just to make it all glow green.  

[His Name was HYR!!]

Is it a change if there are no end results?

[antares_sublight]

Geneaux486 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...
Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

 Synthesis doesn't do anything like that.

Because... ?

[OblivionDawn]

antares_sublight wrote...

Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

This is such a hyperbolic distortion that I'm surprised I'm even responding to it, but:

Shepard didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything. He combined the strengths and weaknesses of synthetics with the strenghts and weaknesses of organics. Without sacrificing anyone or anything but himself, I might add.

Do you really think anyone is saying; "Damn you, Shepard for making me biologically perfect AND letting me keep my individuality!"

Damn him for blowing up the relays, maybe.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 03 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[fr33stylez]

Well, if 'Synthesis' doesn't cause everyone to be the same, why exactly would it result in everlasting peace between this apparent war between organics and synthetics? Or organics vs. organics for that matter.

[Konfined]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Yeah that is funny isn't it?  I don't remember synthesis doing anything other than rewriting the DNA of the entire galaxy.  Good or bad is never addressed.  So, no tangible benefit, Reapers still alive; you've basically altered the genetic code of the entire galaxy for nothing.  So what again was the point of synthesis?

Modifié par Konfined, 03 mai 2012 - 10:37 .

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

No you haven't answered my questions. You have yet to explain to me how you believed that if someone didn't like having their DNA synthesized they could have it reversed. That's a red flag. You said it and implied it and avoided the thread like a plague when I called you out on it.

To know how it could be reversed I would have to know how it happened in the first place. Synthesis isn't explained, as much as I would like it to.

But my conclusion is still very basic; living people can conduct research, dead/reaped ones cannot.

Taboo-XX wrote...
I know that Synthesis doesn't turn people into husks or something to the like. It DOES merge organic and synthetic DNA which is nothing short of divine. I see people like you quote pseudo and fringe sciene articles for inspiration. You are no different to me than someone who believes that crystals can heal wounds or that a medium can contact the dead. You're a joke and a laughing stock. You remind me of that crazed man of Greek descent on Ancient Aliens. Synthesis in nothing short of divine.

This Hurts Me:mellow:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
I don't have to know how Synthesis works to accept it, any more than I have to know how Element Zero can react with anything when it's basically a pile of neutrons with no charge.

Taboo-XX wrote...
As for ethics, one is always hesitant to do something once oneself is involved. Black and White only exist when you aren't involved personally most of the time. I don't belive Destroy to be ethcial either but I don't want to rewrite the way the galaxy is. Nothing about the ending choices are ethical, they all come down to taste.

I never said they were. But given the choice myself, I would choose exactly like my Shepard, and go with Synthesis. If that bothers you, tough.

[ArchDuck]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Is it a change if there are no end results?

Ah, peace through glowing.

If the human race all glowed then there would be no more war. And we would be incapable of purposely or accidentally creating pure synthetics or pure organics.

Why didn't I think of that?

[richard_rider]

Oh look, it's this thread again...

[His Name was HYR!!]

frylock23 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Well, if it doesn't get rid of those things, then what's the point. It seems like an empty violation of everyone for no discernible gain. It can't ensure lasting peace, it doesn't get rid of disease, so what point does it have? It seems you've shot your own advantages in the foot.

I'm hardly going to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy just to make it all glow green.  

The point is, if he upgrade to intelligence levels on the level of synthetics, we will be able to research and advance even faster than other. That advancement and research may lead, but isn't limited to, cures to diseases and peaceful diplomacy.

Funny how the tides turn. First it was terrible because it stripped us of our individuality. When that complaint no longer works, why hasn't it changed us MOAR????

[ArchDuck]

OblivionDawn wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

This is such a hyperbolic distortion that I'm surprised I'm even responding to it, but:

Shepard didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything. He combined the strengths and weaknesses of synthetics with the strenghts and weaknesses of organics. Without sacrificing anyone or anything but himself, I might add.

One person's strengths is another's weakness. By who's definitions are we operating?

[antares_sublight]

OblivionDawn wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

This is such a hyperbolic distortion that I'm surprised I'm even responding to it, but:

Shepard didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything. He combined the strengths and weaknesses of synthetics with the strenghts and weaknesses of organics. Without sacrificing anyone or anything but himself, I might add.

Didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything? Then where are the pure organics after synthesis? Who said anything about combining strengths and weaknesses? Not even starchild says that.

Shepard genetically modifies all life in the galaxy based on a couple of strange sentences from someone he just met. If it's not unethical, it's certainly foolhardy and naive.

[Konfined]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Well, if it doesn't get rid of those things, then what's the point. It seems like an empty violation of everyone for no discernible gain. It can't ensure lasting peace, it doesn't get rid of disease, so what point does it have? It seems you've shot your own advantages in the foot.

I'm hardly going to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy just to make it all glow green.  

The point is, if he upgrade to intelligence levels on the level of synthetics, we will be able to research and advance even faster than other. That advancement and research may lead, but isn't limited to, cures to diseases and peaceful diplomacy.

Funny how the tides turn. First it was terrible because it stripped us of our individuality. When that complaint no longer works, why hasn't it changed us MOAR????

So basically, you're just making things up as you go along, while rebuking others for doing the same, only without the rose-colored glasses?  That about it?

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

No you haven't answered my questions. You have yet to explain to me how you believed that if someone didn't like having their DNA synthesized they could have it reversed. That's a red flag. You said it and implied it and avoided the thread like a plague when I called you out on it.

To know how it could be reversed I would have to know how it happened in the first place. Synthesis isn't explained, as much as I would like it to.

But my conclusion is still very basic; living people can conduct research, dead/reaped ones cannot.

Taboo-XX wrote...
I know that Synthesis doesn't turn people into husks or something to the like. It DOES merge organic and synthetic DNA which is nothing short of divine. I see people like you quote pseudo and fringe sciene articles for inspiration. You are no different to me than someone who believes that crystals can heal wounds or that a medium can contact the dead. You're a joke and a laughing stock. You remind me of that crazed man of Greek descent on Ancient Aliens. Synthesis in nothing short of divine.

This Hurts Me:mellow:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
I don't have to know how Synthesis works to accept it, any more than I have to know how Element Zero can react with anything when it's basically a pile of neutrons with no charge.

Taboo-XX wrote...
As for ethics, one is always hesitant to do something once oneself is involved. Black and White only exist when you aren't involved personally most of the time. I don't belive Destroy to be ethcial either but I don't want to rewrite the way the galaxy is. Nothing about the ending choices are ethical, they all come down to taste.

I never said they were. But given the choice myself, I would choose exactly like my Shepard, and go with Synthesis. If that bothers you, tough.

That quote by Clarke makes me laugh even harder at you.

You  assume that there was a grand master plan in all of this. You ASSUME that was the intention. You ASSUME that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson understood what they were doing.

The ending is poorly written and people will use whatever they can to justify it. The pro-enders go to the exact same lengths the Anti-enders do to prove something.

It's bad writing that was never supposed to be explained, it has unfortunately come back to bite them in the backside.

We've all been driven crazy by this nonsense.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 03 mai 2012 - 10:42 .

[antares_sublight]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
The point is, if he upgrade to intelligence levels on the level of synthetics, we will be able to research and advance even faster than other. That advancement and research may lead, but isn't limited to, cures to diseases and peaceful diplomacy.

Who says the synthesis upgrades intelligence? If it doesn't improve physical ailments, why assume it improves intelligence?

[The Angry One]

Konfined wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Well, if it doesn't get rid of those things, then what's the point. It seems like an empty violation of everyone for no discernible gain. It can't ensure lasting peace, it doesn't get rid of disease, so what point does it have? It seems you've shot your own advantages in the foot.

I'm hardly going to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy just to make it all glow green.  

The point is, if he upgrade to intelligence levels on the level of synthetics, we will be able to research and advance even faster than other. That advancement and research may lead, but isn't limited to, cures to diseases and peaceful diplomacy.

Funny how the tides turn. First it was terrible because it stripped us of our individuality. When that complaint no longer works, why hasn't it changed us MOAR????

So basically, you're just making things up as you go along, while rebuking others for doing the same, only without the rose-colored glasses?  That about it?

That's Vorcha logic, that is.
What this topic needs is Gavorn.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Konfined wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Yeah that is funny isn't it?  I don't remember synthesis doing anything other than rewriting the DNA of the entire galaxy.  Good or bad is never addressed.  So, no tangible benefit, Reapers still alive; you've basically altered the genetic code of the entire galaxy for nothing.  So what again was the point of synthesis?

Apparently it didn't "rewrite" DNA, at least, not to the extent people had crapped their pants about it doing, if Joker is still the same person. And your word choice is clever. You say no "tangible" benefit. As in, if there is any, I can't prove it because it's not tangible. It's too bad for me the ending cutscene doesn't show anything.

It doesn't, however, bar the possibility that Joker has benefitted from the change. Perhaps now he can think at light speeds. And maybe as a result of this change, our smartest scientists are now smarter, and can create a cure to his disease.

Also, if the Reapers are no longer attacking us, I wouldn't say it was for nothing either.

[OblivionDawn]

antares_sublight wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

This is such a hyperbolic distortion that I'm surprised I'm even responding to it, but:

Shepard didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything. He combined the strengths and weaknesses of synthetics with the strenghts and weaknesses of organics. Without sacrificing anyone or anything but himself, I might add.

Didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything? Then where are the pure organics after synthesis? Who said anything about combining strengths and weaknesses? Not even starchild says that.

Shepard genetically modifies all life in the galaxy based on a couple of strange sentences from someone he just met. If it's not unethical, it's certainly foolhardy and naive.

He didn't say that specifically. But what else would they accomplish from doing that? It can be assumed that the traits of organics and synthetics were merged into one being. It's doubtful that the Starkid would have mentioned that option if the change wouldn't have been for the better.

And "pure" organics? Who cares about being a pure organic.? I don't wake up everyday saying "Damn, I sure am glad to be a completely organic being," do you?

And yeah, it may be foolhardy and naive. But that could be said for ANY of his options. as far as Shepard knows, the Starkid could just have told him to jump into a giant incinerator. But that's a different argument.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 03 mai 2012 - 10:45 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

antares_sublight wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
The point is, if he upgrade to intelligence levels on the level of synthetics, we will be able to research and advance even faster than other. That advancement and research may lead, but isn't limited to, cures to diseases and peaceful diplomacy.

Who says the synthesis upgrades intelligence? If it doesn't improve physical ailments, why assume it improves intelligence?

What exactly are you nay-sayers trying to argue here, exactly? I don't get it.

You rail this choice for making a great drastic change, but then insist that no change took place because none are apparent, aside from the glowing green on Joker's skin.

Come back to me when you get it sorted out.

[Konfined]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

No, but they allow you to forcibly change every being in the galaxy though, right?  Joker's skin doesn't turn grey, he also still suffers from Brittle Bone too.

That's funny. First of all, I don't remember synthesis ever entailing a cure to all disease in the galaxy. But seeing as he still suffers from the disease afterwards, that pretty much reinforces the point that not all indivuality is lost. Vrolik's syndrome, being as it is a hereditary disease (iirc), is genetic. So if he's maintained that in the end, then it's unlikely that he's lost any of his prior individual traits.

BOOM! There goes another oft-used synthesis gripe, out the window.

Yeah that is funny isn't it?  I don't remember synthesis doing anything other than rewriting the DNA of the entire galaxy.  Good or bad is never addressed.  So, no tangible benefit, Reapers still alive; you've basically altered the genetic code of the entire galaxy for nothing.  So what again was the point of synthesis?

Apparently it didn't "rewrite" DNA, at least, not to the extent people had crapped their pants about it doing, if Joker is still the same person. And your word choice is clever. You say no "tangible" benefit. As in, if there is any, I can't prove it because it's not tangible. It's too bad for me the ending cutscene doesn't show anything.

It doesn't, however, bar the possibility that Joker has benefitted from the change. Perhaps now he can think at light speeds. And maybe as a result of this change, our smartest scientists are now smarter, and can create a cure to his disease.

Also, if the Reapers are no longer attacking us, I wouldn't say it was for nothing either.

I say no tangible benefit, because you've decided to rewrite the DNA of the entire galaxy (I always feel the need to stress that) based on the whims of an individual who can almost categorically be classified as the enemy.  If you're going to take the word of an enemy, then there had best be a good goddamn reason other than green wires sticking out of my goddamn arms.

[antares_sublight]

OblivionDawn wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

Synthesis turns Shepard into a fascist strongman, imposing his ideal of existential superiority on all races, ridding the galaxy of "inferior" pure organics and forbidding anyone anywhere in the galaxy live otherwise.

This is such a hyperbolic distortion that I'm surprised I'm even responding to it, but:

Shepard didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything. He combined the strengths and weaknesses of synthetics with the strenghts and weaknesses of organics. Without sacrificing anyone or anything but himself, I might add.

Didn't "rid" the galaxy of anything? Then where are the pure organics after synthesis? Who said anything about combining strengths and weaknesses? Not even starchild says that.

Shepard genetically modifies all life in the galaxy based on a couple of strange sentences from someone he just met. If it's not unethical, it's certainly foolhardy and naive.

He didn't say that specifically. But what else would they accomplish from doing that? It can be assumed that the traits of organics and synthetics were merged into one being. It's doubtful that the Starkid would have mentioned that option if the change wouldn't have been for the better.

And "pure" organics? Who cares about being a pure organic.? I don't wake up everyday saying "Damn, I sure am glad to be a completely organic being," do you?

And yeah, it may be foolhardy and naive. But that could be said for ANY of his options. as far as Shepard knows, the Starkid could just have told him to jump into a giant incinerator. But that's a different argument.

"Starkid mentioned that option" because it's roughly the same thing as what the reapers do and it allows the reapers to continue living like normal.

You may not wake up being glad to be organic, but if someone gave you an artificial heart, metal jaw, mechanical arm and prosthetic legs while you were asleep, you might feel a little odd about not having a say in it when you wake up. You might even miss your old organics legs. And yes, frankly, I'm happy to be with the same DNA as what I was born with (microwave and pesticide meddling aside).