166 réponses à ce sujet

[Grimy Bunyip]

[quote]GodlessPaladin wrote...
[quote]Detonating tech armor will reset cooldowns for all allies like it did in ME2, but no more than one reset every 12 seconds.[/quote] Neeeh... it lacks the tactical precision it would have with a squad and seems kinda spammy instead.
[quote]Detonating tech armor will restore shields to yourself and nearby allies, but no more than once every 12 seconds.[/quote] Where are we seeing this 12 second timer?
[/quote]
You're right about the tactical precision thing.
How about this instead:
Halves cooldowns for allies within 5m for 6 seconds.
Only nearby allies so you can't have a sentinel in the corner spamming tec

the 12 second timer was meant to be invisible, but you're right. I don't like the spammy aspect of the previous suggestion. So ignore it.

[quote]GodlessPaladin wrote...
[quote]-25% cloak duration for Tactical Cloak Rank 5 Melee Evolution
-50% cloak duration for Tactical Cloak Rank 6 Sniper Evolution[/quote] Barely even care for anything other than device objectives and revivng teammates.

[quote]Energy drain no longer restores shields while cloaked[/quote] I don't see this being much of a hindrance so much as it just seems unintuitive.[/quote]Is it that unintuitive? you don't gain shields while cloaked normally, i figured this was intuitive

[quote]GodlessPaladin wrote...
[quote]Geth Heavy Melee drains 50% of your total shields, after factoring in fitness and hunter mode.
Geth Heavy Melee cannot be used when you are out of shields.[/quote] That would slow down the train a little, since I would have to actually wait for my shields to recharge. Just makes shield recharge cells an even more obvious choice for the GI than before.[/quote]
We'll have to talk about this in more detail later, as you probably have much more experience with melee GI's than I do.
Do you think melee GI's are OP?
Do you have opinions on how to balance them?

[quote]GodlessPaladin wrote...
[quote]Geth Plasma Shotgun Weight increased to [2.5-2.0]
This nerf is not inherently an infiltrator nerf, so I will elaborate.
My issue with the GPS is two-fold. It's a noob tube that takes little skill to use.
And it can be slapped onto any class, and make that class good.
I'm not going to deal with the former since I think the game needs noob tubes of some sort.
Not everybody can be a great shot.
As for the latter, the weight increase will discourage certain classes from picking up this weapon.[/quote] It will discourage Soldiers from taking it, and won't discourage Infiltrators. Asari already probably do better with the Graal because of stasis headshots. Vanguards would stop using it because if they were going to use a Power Efficiency Module they'd rather take a Claymore.[/quote]
Due to a typo, I missed the part where I'd want adrenaline rush and marksman to make soldiers resilient to weight, like the infiltrator

[quote]GodlessPaladin wrote...
[quote]Pistol Scope
Pistols are somewhat OP, because the scope allows them to be used like a sniper rifle.
Replace the pistol scope with a laser pointer.
Reduce Accuracy bonus to [5%-15%][/quote] Completely unnecessary, since pistols don't outclass sniper rifles in the hands of sniping classes, and there are nice alternative choices for casters already besides a scoped pistol.[/quote]
I've played hundreds of classes as a pistol infiltrator, and I'd argue otherwise.
The only sniper rifle that I've ever performed better than a pistol with, has been my black widow when specced for 1 body shot kills.
I've perform better with carnifex on my infiltrators in every other situation.

[quote]GodlessPaladin wrote...
[quote]Copy halo reach's punitive system for idle boosting. 24 hour ban for the first time caught idle boosting. 2 week ban for the second offense. So forth.
[/quote]

I see you changed the original suggestion, right after getting upset at me for questioning its reasonableness.  Hmmm...
[/quote]
yeap

Modifié par Grimy Bunyip, 05 mai 2012 - 04:17 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

Killahead wrote...

Again I would like to point out that carrying two weapons (that neither are light pistols/smgs) is choosing to be a weapon specialist. You sacrifice the ability to cast powers frequently. On classes were you find this to be a viable option you will probably put points into weapon damage instead of power damage. There's a dynamic at play here, that will be ruined if your sidearm suddenly weighs less when not equipped. Having to make these kind of choices is what makes the game interesting, just like when you choose evolutions in the build trees, you sacrifice something for something else.

I can run with two heavy weapons on my krogan sentinel, but I can't use powers effectively, most likely will I ignore incinerate in my build.
Now, on my krogan soldier I have very good powers in carnage and inferno grenades. I choose to put my points into power damage for this reason. Now, I need a good weapon, but I can't carry both an assault rifle and a shotgun, as this will drastically increase my cooldown for carnage.

Everyone knows this. The point is that by forcing me to limit myself this way, the game encourages different play styles and distinct roles for classes and setups. For me this is one of the greatest things about the game. Every modern game does this in one way or another, but I find the power/weight mechanics to be a very interesting feature when combined with all the build options and number of weapons in this game.

Reducing the weight of a carried weapon when not equipped would ruin this system and bring less variety to the game. Now, I have no reason to believe that Bioware would even consider this, but I get a bit freaked out when I notice that some players actually support it, haha.

Also, we have light sidearms, they are called pistols and smgs and do not punish you very much at all.

I'm not sure I agree.
Do you see many players toting multiple arms these days?
Aside from krogan sentinels.

Infiltrators can handle multiple side arms well, but most avoid them like the plague in spite of that.
You're concerned that decisions wouldn't be meaningful if your unequipped sidearm weighed double right?
but the proposal still makes unequipped sidearms weigh something, it's not going to be a free weapon or anything.

I just think the current system is a wee bit too harsh. 50% reduction will help, but not tremendously so.
And once again I'd like to cite the lack of sidearms aside from SMG's in most player's builds as evidence of the harshness of the current system.

[GodlessPaladin]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...
We'll have to talk about this in more detail later, as you probably have much more experience with melee GI's than I do.
Do you think melee GI's are OP?
Do you have opinions on how to balance them?

  The thing about the Geth Infiltrator is that it's basically like Sabresandiego's awesome human claymore infiltrator... except it moves faster, sees through walls, has the amazing proximity mine power (which for some reason just got a meaningful buff), and does more damage.  And then oh yeah, you also have the best melee attack in the game.  You also laugh at the things that tormented the Human Claymore Infiltrator:  Swarmers and Phantoms.  The only drawback to all of this is that you are so squishy that you will @#$%ing die from something looking at you funny... except you have all kinds of tools to avoid that ever happening.  I suppose this means that there is some level of skill requirement to playing them to their potential, but that potential is pretty crazy.  Definitely higher than the upper potential of many other classes.

Still, the Salarian Infiltrator is pretty crazy too.  He's a better sniper, and considerably more forgiving.

As to how I'd change it, I'm not sure.  I really like the feel of the class as it is now.  In general, I think the higher tier classes in this game have a better gameplay flow to them, whereas things like the Turian Soldier have rather awkward anti-synergy with themselves.  This is why I think it's better to rebalance the classes in such a way that the lower tier ones approach the level of the higher tier ones, rather than the other way around... and if that makes things seem too easy, enemies should become more difficult to compensate.

One might also consider that in general, melee attacks on most classes are kinda... well, crappy. One of the reasons the GI melee stands out so much is because it's so strange to see melee actually accomplishing much on Gold.  I'd like to see melee attacks for other classes be more useful in general, especially since you're giving up shields to use them... which doubles up their risk/reward factor, because being in melee range and being stuck in a melee animation is already dangerous before you even consider that you're losing out on health, shields, and shield recharge rate.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 mai 2012 - 04:28 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Grimy Bunyip wrote...
We'll have to talk about this in more detail later, as you probably have much more experience with melee GI's than I do.
Do you think melee GI's are OP?
Do you have opinions on how to balance them?

  The thing about the Geth Infiltrator is that it's basically like Sabresandiego's awesome human claymore infiltrator... except it moves faster, sees through walls, has the amazing proximity mine power (which for some reason just got a meaningful buff), and does more damage.  And then oh yeah, you also have the best melee attack in the game.  You also laugh at the things that tormented the Human Claymore Infiltrator:  Swarmers and Phantoms.  The only drawback to all of this is that you are so squishy that you will @#$%ing die from something looking at you funny... except you have all kinds of tools to avoid that ever happening.  I suppose this means that there is some level of skill requirement to playing them to their potential, but that potential is pretty crazy.  Definitely higher than the upper potential of many other classes.

Still, the Salarian Infiltrator is pretty crazy too.  He's a better sniper, and considerably more forgiving.

As to how I'd change it, I'm not sure.  I really like the feel of the class as it is now.  In general, I think the higher tier classes and better weapons in this game have a better gameplay flow to them, whereas things like the Turian Soldier have rather awkward anti-synergy with themselves.  This is why I think it's better to rebalance the classes in such a way that the lower tier ones approach the level of the higher tier ones, rather than the other way around... and if that makes things seem too easy, enemies should become more difficult to compensate.

my concern is that that, this melee GI is essentially performing the vanguard's duty, in a squishier format.
How exactly would you be able to balance the vanguard with the melee GI without nerfing the melee GI to some extent?
Or is my premise that bringing a vanguard up to par with a melee Gi being very difficult, not accurate.

[GodlessPaladin]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Grimy Bunyip wrote...
We'll have to talk about this in more detail later, as you probably have much more experience with melee GI's than I do.
Do you think melee GI's are OP?
Do you have opinions on how to balance them?

  The thing about the Geth Infiltrator is that it's basically like Sabresandiego's awesome human claymore infiltrator... except it moves faster, sees through walls, has the amazing proximity mine power (which for some reason just got a meaningful buff), and does more damage.  And then oh yeah, you also have the best melee attack in the game.  You also laugh at the things that tormented the Human Claymore Infiltrator:  Swarmers and Phantoms.  The only drawback to all of this is that you are so squishy that you will @#$%ing die from something looking at you funny... except you have all kinds of tools to avoid that ever happening.  I suppose this means that there is some level of skill requirement to playing them to their potential, but that potential is pretty crazy.  Definitely higher than the upper potential of many other classes.

Still, the Salarian Infiltrator is pretty crazy too.  He's a better sniper, and considerably more forgiving.

As to how I'd change it, I'm not sure.  I really like the feel of the class as it is now.  In general, I think the higher tier classes and better weapons in this game have a better gameplay flow to them, whereas things like the Turian Soldier have rather awkward anti-synergy with themselves.  This is why I think it's better to rebalance the classes in such a way that the lower tier ones approach the level of the higher tier ones, rather than the other way around... and if that makes things seem too easy, enemies should become more difficult to compensate.

my concern is that that, this melee GI is essentially performing the vanguard's duty, in a squishier format.
How exactly would you be able to balance the vanguard with the melee GI without nerfing the melee GI to some extent?
Or is my premise that bringing a vanguard up to par with a melee Gi being very difficult, not accurate.

The Human Vanguard's duty is to tank and set off combos.   How is the GI doing that?

I would like to see vanguards get a bigger post-charge weapon damage bonus from the rank 5 evolution, though.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 mai 2012 - 04:35 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The Human Vanguard's duty is to tank and set off combos.   How is the GI doing that?

Combos, sure.
But I find reave-vanguard duos to be a little on the rare side.
I don't really like considering them all that much.

Also I feel like tanking is not very useful on gold, things die fast enough.
Maybe if we had a platinum difficulty where the vanguard could still tank effectively, but things died slower, sure.
but ATM i feel like killing something is better than tanking, with the exception of atlases and what not.

[GodlessPaladin]

What do you think about this?

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

Axialbloom wrote...

Arc Pistol sucks.

agreed, but I think I have enough fixing to do with the changes I've already proposed.
They need a little tweaking.
I promise I'll get to the arc pistol eventually

Speaking of DPS earlier, some people look at the Arc Pistol and think "Wow, how could that gun be bad? It has 803 DPS, plus the utility of charging! I mean, the Paladin only has 80 more DPS than that, right?"

But then some might notice that it has 550 ROF. This is a gun that actually expects you to be clicking the button almost as fast as the Hurricane sprays bullets in order to get its DPS (600 ROF on the Hurricane, and both lack refire rates). And I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not using a modded controller, so that's pretty inconvenient. Even if I click the button that fast, that effort is definitely affecting my aim.

Also, of course, unlike the Carnifex or Paladin, if you're firing rapidly you are A) exposed to enemy fire and thus cannot actually sustain your offense consistently, sacrificing some damage each time the stream is interrupted by the firing of a power or some other action, C) not headshotting all day every day and D) taking a bigger penalty from enemy damage mitigation, which matters quite a bit for most of the enemies that you actually are going to want to sustain fire on for a matter of multiple seconds (e.g. banshees, atlasses, et cetera).

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 mai 2012 - 04:39 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think about this?

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

Axialbloom wrote...

Arc Pistol sucks.

agreed, but I think I have enough fixing to do with the changes I've already proposed.
They need a little tweaking.
I promise I'll get to the arc pistol eventually

Speaking of DPS earlier, some people look at the Arc Pistol and think "Wow, how could that gun be bad? It has 803 DPS, plus the utility of charging! I mean, the Paladin only has 80 more DPS than that, right?"

But then some might notice that it has 550 ROF. This is a gun that actually expects you to be clicking the button almost as fast as the Hurricane sprays bullets in order to get its DPS (600 ROF on the Hurricane, and both lack refire rates). And I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not using a modded controller, so that's pretty inconvenient. Even if I click the button that fast, that effort is definitely affecting my aim.

Also, of course, unlike the Carnifex or Paladin, if you're firing rapidly you are A) exposed to enemy fire and thus cannot actually sustain your offense consistently, sacrificing some damage each time the stream is interrupted by the firing of a power or some other action, C) not headshotting all day every day and D) taking a bigger penalty from enemy damage mitigation, which matters quite a bit for most of the enemies that you actually are going to want to sustain fire on for a matter of multiple seconds (e.g. banshees, atlasses, et cetera).

i mentioned earlier that human min refire error is on the order of 0.04 seconds.
arc pistol's 550 RoF means a min refire of 60/550 = 0.109 seconds.
Add 0.04 seconds to that and you get 0.149 seconds
making 400 RoF the close to the human limit without a finely tuned hotkey script.

I'd like to factor these considerations into a sustained and burst DPS calculation that includes human error, and reload cancelling and so forth.
I'd like to have the numbers on hand when I make each proposal or w/e

[GodlessPaladin]

Yeah, I think it would be better if they reduced the fire rate for the Arc Pistol and kept the DPS.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[Metal Vile]

One thing I would mention is that your idea for "Time spent factors into cooldown" for Adrenaline Rush and Marksman doesn't really take into account the fact that AR reloads your weapon. 

So IN THEORY, you could tap AR to get a free reload, shoot 1-2 rounds with a high damage weapon, and then turn it off, where it could recharge before you empty your clip (possibly).  This could create a scenario where you're continually getting free reloads and damage bonuses with no penalty.  Of course, you can already SOMEWHAT do this with AR, but depending on the minimum cooldown time, it could be virtually continuous. 

Then again, maybe that's not so OP, and would make Human Soldiers more desirable?

I would DEFINITELY demand that Marksmen get "Use one power while activated" evolution somewhere, because debuff Proxy Mine + instant Marksmen = WIN.  Actually, with the new Hurricane, THAT might be OP a bit.

Also, the idea that new CD mechanics for AR and MM wouldn't address weapon weight issues for the Krogan or Batarian Soldiers.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

I concur.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

May I suggest that the Collector Rifle (I know it's promo only, but hear me out) get looked at too? :3

[Grimy Bunyip]

Metal Vile wrote...

One thing I would mention is that your idea for "Time spent factors into cooldown" for Adrenaline Rush and Marksman doesn't really take into account the fact that AR reloads your weapon. 

So IN THEORY, you could tap AR to get a free reload, shoot 1-2 rounds with a high damage weapon, and then turn it off, where it could recharge before you empty your clip (possibly).  This could create a scenario where you're continually getting free reloads and damage bonuses with no penalty.  Of course, you can already SOMEWHAT do this with AR, but depending on the minimum cooldown time, it could be virtually continuous. 

Then again, maybe that's not so OP, and would make Human Soldiers more desirable?

I would DEFINITELY demand that Marksmen get "Use one power while activated" evolution somewhere, because debuff Proxy Mine + instant Marksmen = WIN.  Actually, with the new Hurricane, THAT might be OP a bit.

Also, the idea that new CD mechanics for AR and MM wouldn't address weapon weight issues for the Krogan or Batarian Soldiers.

that's a good point with the first one.
it really boils down to what the min cooldown is though.
it's 3 seconds on tactical cloak, but we might need to change that considering the instant reload.
thanks for bringing that to my attention, I didn't actually consider it when I first htought of it.

Also no, I haven't given the latter 2 considerations yet.
I'm currently in the process of formating a way to edit the front page spreadsheet more efficiently.
I'll have to get back to you on that one.

If you get an idea before me, please tell me, I've plugged no few ideas so far into the OP 
With credits when appropriate of course.

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

May I suggest that the Collector Rifle (I know it's promo only, but hear me out) get looked at too? :3

HOW DID YOU KNOW I INTENTIONALLY OVERLOOKED THAT
XD

but yes, eventually
like I said I'm in the process of formating a tool that automatically recalculates DPS values and ratio's of DPS compared between two weapons.

that way I don't need to go dig up every instance of "Claymore DPS" in my blasted spreadsheet and change it every time I suggest a new change, or if bioware makes a change with the patch.

Modifié par Grimy Bunyip, 05 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[Metal Vile]

Unfortunately, I don't really have any ideas regarding AR or MM (other than the "free power during usage" evo for MM that I already mentioned). I think what you're trying to do with them is cool in theory, but using that to balance their weight issues won't work because it doesn't help the Krogan or the Batarian.

I did, however, have some ideas regarding the Arc Pistol. Other than reducing it's weight a bit more (I think it should be the same weight as the Carnifex, personally) or giving it a bigger natural clip, what it we give it some kind of ability that plays to its lore/purpose? It shoots electricity, basically, right? What if we give it a small (but cumulative!) chance to stun, like other electrical attacks?

Something like a stacking 15% chance per shot to cause an electro-stun (I'm thinking a stagger effect similar to what the Combat Drone's pulse does). A charged shot would be a near-guaranteed stun (90% since it functions as 6 shots), and even if it doesn't, a follow up shot would guarantee one.

Another option would be to have it ignore Armor DR values, since it's not actually shooting bullets. It would still be blocked by Guardian Shields, though. Perhaps have a charged shot knock their shield aside, ala Combat Drone?

[Grimy Bunyip]

Finally finished fixing up the spreadsheet tht compiles the weapon numbers.
It will make whipping up sustained and burst DPS numbers and comparisons a breeze.

made a few changes while I was at it.

I'll try catching up on some of the other requests made thus far.

Modifié par Grimy Bunyip, 05 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

bump

added a quck comment about adrenaline/marksman and krogan soldier
don't have a great idea yet on how to make the batarian/krogan soldiers more weight resilient yet

tweaked the stats on everything when I added the sustained/burst DPS numbers that factor in human error of 0.5 seconds per burst and 0.04 seconds per min refire.

adjusted the indra when I found out it was fully automatic (it is right?)
adjusted the assault rifles a bit more

added arc pistol & collector rifle

[Grimy Bunyip]

Rezzing this old thread.

Made some changes to the original post and I also deleted the nerf section.
My opinions on the matter of nerfs remains the same, but you rarely ever get productive discussion on the matter of nerfs out of the BSN .

Had to fix how DPS was calculated due to my discovery that RoF cooldown has to end before you start reloading.
But that should be fixed and everything should be up to date with the recent balance updates as well.
Deleted Indra and crusader off.
Crusader buff came extremely close to the original proposed buff.
Indra buff overshot what I originally asked for .

Still waiting on someone to suggest a decent way to make batarian and krogan soldiers more weight resilient, like how infiltrators are weight resilient.

Modifié par Grimy Bunyip, 18 mai 2012 - 12:59 .