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[Dendio1]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...

The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

I know bro haha. Miranda murders that scientist right in front of you at the beginning of ME2 and nobody bats an eye.

No heavy evidence, just her word against his. Then jacob goes " I told you she's always right"

I can just picture your Shepard dying in Morinth's arms, his last words being "u jelly, live Shepards?"

First that ending isn't canon so why take it seriously.

Second we didn't know the ending, we made our choice based on info we had at the time. I was more curious to see what the devs would do with Morinth. Samara had already been set as the self righteous mother  who will kill you if her code demanded it (which it almost always did). Morinth had potential beyond those set roles.

Third: would anyone be surprised if instead of the big stupid jelly fish, we ended up fighting Samara due to the reapers convincing her code that organics must be purged? lol?

Modifié par Dendio1, 03 mai 2012 - 11:13 .

[sw04ca]

Dendio1 wrote...
She never turns on shepard. She never betrays him or goes after a crewmember behind his back. She follows his orders to the tee, and for the record she starts out loyal with no mission!

The embrace was an experiment for both of them. She finally found the biggest badass in the universe. She figured why the hell not plot immunity ftw 
yea I know it didn't work but it had a punchers chance

She knew it wasn't going to work.  She's killed large numbers of people the exact same way, and that's how she betrayed Shepard.  She'd been planning to murder him from the moment they met, and her agenda never changed, even if you helped her murder her mother.

[Geneaux486]

Dendio1 wrote...
Morinth had potential beyond those set roles.

If you're not paying attention to the story I guess.  What Morinth is and does is pretty clear before you're even given the choice to let her join your squad. 

[Dendio1]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...
Morinth had potential beyond those set roles.

If you're not paying attention to the story I guess.  What Morinth is and does is pretty clear before you're even given the choice to let her join your squad. 

All she did was listen to shepard and come onboard automatically loyal. Then she wishes him the best and evades the alliance military, the same way miranda did.

Unfortunately she gets converted to a banshee...pretty tragic way to go, poor morinth just wanted to see the universe as evidenced by her letters to her sisters.

Modifié par Dendio1, 03 mai 2012 - 10:31 .

[Ryuukishi]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...

The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

I know bro haha. Miranda murders that scientist right in front of you at the beginning of ME2 and nobody bats an eye.

No heavy evidence, just her word against his. Then jacob goes " I told you she's always right"

I can just picture your Shepard dying in Morinth's arms, his last words being "u jelly, live Shepards?"

Nice. LOL

No argument that Morinth is a bad person. But you've also got Jack, Miranda, Zaeed, Thane... hell, there are probably more squadmates who have murdered in cold blood than those that haven't. But only Morinth seems to bring out this level of furious condemnation. I just find it amusing.

[sw04ca]

Ryuukishi wrote...
The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

There's all kinds of bad people in the squad.  Kasumi is a thief.  Zaeed, Wrex, Samara and probably Mordin have done some pretty bad things in their time.  By ME3, Liara is supposed to be the Godfather.  Thane has killed plenty of folks who may or may not have had it coming.  Jacob and Miranda work for the Space SS, and Miranda is pretty ruthless.  But none of them are serial killers.  Only Jack comes close.

Modifié par sw04ca, 03 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[Dendio1]

sw04ca wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...
She never turns on shepard. She never betrays him or goes after a crewmember behind his back. She follows his orders to the tee, and for the record she starts out loyal with no mission!

The embrace was an experiment for both of them. She finally found the biggest badass in the universe. She figured why the hell not plot immunity ftw 
yea I know it didn't work but it had a punchers chance

She knew it wasn't going to work.  She's killed large numbers of people the exact same way, and that's how she betrayed Shepard.  She'd been planning to murder him from the moment they met, and her agenda never changed, even if you helped her murder her mother.

Speculations. I could counter that by mentioning that her argument of shepard being special has some merit. The guy came back from the dead and is partly synthetic. What other human would stand a better chance to survive than shepard.

I can further counter your speculation by speculating that morinth came to like shepard and truely hoped she found someone that she could burn all of her lust on.

During their embrace she smiled before anything went wrong. Shepard was fine and she smiled. If she wanted to kill him she should have been looking upset. Once shepard starts to black out we dont see her expression.

[Ryuukishi]

sw04ca wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...
The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

There's all kinds of bad people in the squad.  Kasumi is a thief.  Zaeed, Wrex, Samara and probably Mordin have done some pretty bad things in their time.  By ME3, Liara is supposed to be the Godfather.  Thane has killed plenty of folks who may or may not have had it coming.  Jacob and Miranda work for the Space SS, and Miranda is pretty ruthless.  But none of them are serial killers.  Only Jack comes close.

That's true.

ME2 is a pretty Renegade-oriented game. Can anyone on the squad other than Tali be considered a Paragon type of person?

[Catroi]

Ryuukishi wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...
The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

There's all kinds of bad people in the squad.  Kasumi is a thief.  Zaeed, Wrex, Samara and probably Mordin have done some pretty bad things in their time.  By ME3, Liara is supposed to be the Godfather.  Thane has killed plenty of folks who may or may not have had it coming.  Jacob and Miranda work for the Space SS, and Miranda is pretty ruthless.  But none of them are serial killers.  Only Jack comes close.

That's true.

ME2 is a pretty Renegade-oriented game. Can anyone on the squad other than Tali be considered a Paragon type of person?

Garrus depending of how you handle his loyalty mission in ME1

[Ryuukishi]

Catroi wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...
The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

There's all kinds of bad people in the squad.  Kasumi is a thief.  Zaeed, Wrex, Samara and probably Mordin have done some pretty bad things in their time.  By ME3, Liara is supposed to be the Godfather.  Thane has killed plenty of folks who may or may not have had it coming.  Jacob and Miranda work for the Space SS, and Miranda is pretty ruthless.  But none of them are serial killers.  Only Jack comes close.

That's true.

ME2 is a pretty Renegade-oriented game. Can anyone on the squad other than Tali be considered a Paragon type of person?

Garrus depending of how you handle his loyalty mission in ME1

I don't know. On Omega he's still a vigilante killing people on his own terms, even if he's only killing bad people.

[Dendio1]

Ryuukishi wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...
The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

There's all kinds of bad people in the squad.  Kasumi is a thief.  Zaeed, Wrex, Samara and probably Mordin have done some pretty bad things in their time.  By ME3, Liara is supposed to be the Godfather.  Thane has killed plenty of folks who may or may not have had it coming.  Jacob and Miranda work for the Space SS, and Miranda is pretty ruthless.  But none of them are serial killers.  Only Jack comes close.

That's true.

ME2 is a pretty Renegade-oriented game. Can anyone on the squad other than Tali be considered a Paragon type of person?

I would argue Legion and Jacob as fellow paragons of  ME2

Garrus has always been renegade. Even after his character development in ME3, he still supports winning at all costs. "If one man is still alive its a victory" being the turian way screams renegade

Garrus also *understands* shep's reasons for killing mordin..and blames the war.

Modifié par Dendio1, 03 mai 2012 - 10:53 .

[Ryuukishi]

Yeah, I can see Legion and Jacob. Legion less so in ME3 though.

[AkeasharK]

There’s a couple of little bits with Morinth throughout ME3 after the initial ‘Cya Shep’ email, such as the revelation that she had been trying to keep in contact with her sisters, and giving them the impression that their mother had died through the Omega 4 relay as a hero, rather than being splattered after Shepard distracts her. Doesn’t really fit with the blindly sociopathic character that other people here portray her as.
 
There’s a series of messages that you get in the AY Monastery, at least when you have Morinth as a squadmember in ME2, haven’t done my Mr Goody Two Shoes playthrough yet, where they’re discussing a new AY that has just arrived at the monastery that is acting oddly. I got the impression that it was Morinth actually trying to infiltrate it so that she could break her sisters out...
 
... and then the Reapers came, and then (for me) the gut punch of fighting Morinth at the end on Earth, since apparently the Reapers got her there. That was a real wasted potential sequence.
 
As for the past-its-used-by-date argument of why Morinth in ME2? Because Samara is a psychopath that would kill everyone for her precious code, and outright tells Shepard that she’ll come for her after the Omega 4 relay mission. Morinth at least there’s the mutual respect and parting ways. Morinth is a serial killer? So is Samara by her code, except she’s protected by the Asari thought police, that if a Justicar gets you, you deserved it.

[Dendio1]

AkeasharK wrote...

There’s a couple of little bits with Morinth throughout ME3 after the initial ‘Cya Shep’ email, such as the revelation that she had been trying to keep in contact with her sisters, and giving them the impression that their mother had died through the Omega 4 relay as a hero, rather than being splattered after Shepard distracts her. Doesn’t really fit with the blindly sociopathic character that other people here portray her as.
 
There’s a series of messages that you get in the AY Monastery, at least when you have Morinth as a squadmember in ME2, haven’t done my Mr Goody Two Shoes playthrough yet, where they’re discussing a new AY that has just arrived at the monastery that is acting oddly. I got the impression that it was Morinth actually trying to infiltrate it so that she could break her sisters out...
 
... and then the Reapers came, and then (for me) the gut punch of fighting Morinth at the end on Earth, since apparently the Reapers got her there. That was a real wasted potential sequence.
 
As for the past-its-used-by-date argument of why Morinth in ME2? Because Samara is a psychopath that would kill everyone for her precious code, and outright tells Shepard that she’ll come for her after the Omega 4 relay mission. Morinth at least there’s the mutual respect and parting ways. Morinth is a serial killer? So is Samara by her code, except she’s protected by the Asari thought police, that if a Justicar gets you, you deserved it.

Well said.

[sw04ca]

Dendio1 wrote...
Speculations. I could counter that by mentioning that her argument of shepard being special has some merit. The guy came back from the dead and is partly synthetic. What other human would stand a better chance to survive than shepard.

I can further counter your speculation by speculating that morinth came to like shepard and truely hoped she found someone that she could burn all of her lust on.

During their embrace she smiled before anything went wrong. Shepard was fine and she smiled. If she wanted to kill him she should have been looking upset. Once shepard starts to black out we dont see her expression.

Morinth doesn't lust for sex.  She lusts for murder.  That's why she was smiling, becuase she was murdering him.

My speculation fit much better to the evidence than yours.

[Dendio1]

sw04ca wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...
Speculations. I could counter that by mentioning that her argument of shepard being special has some merit. The guy came back from the dead and is partly synthetic. What other human would stand a better chance to survive than shepard.

I can further counter your speculation by speculating that morinth came to like shepard and truely hoped she found someone that she could burn all of her lust on.

During their embrace she smiled before anything went wrong. Shepard was fine and she smiled. If she wanted to kill him she should have been looking upset. Once shepard starts to black out we dont see her expression.

Morinth doesn't lust for sex.  She lusts for murder.  That's why she was smiling, becuase she was murdering him.

My speculation fit much better to the evidence than yours.

No you did not just say your speculation was better than mine!?

This means war:wizard:

[sw04ca]

Ryuukishi wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Ryuukishi wrote...
The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

There's all kinds of bad people in the squad.  Kasumi is a thief.  Zaeed, Wrex, Samara and probably Mordin have done some pretty bad things in their time.  By ME3, Liara is supposed to be the Godfather.  Thane has killed plenty of folks who may or may not have had it coming.  Jacob and Miranda work for the Space SS, and Miranda is pretty ruthless.  But none of them are serial killers.  Only Jack comes close.

That's true.

ME2 is a pretty Renegade-oriented game. Can anyone on the squad other than Tali be considered a Paragon type of person?

Probably Jacob, even though he's employed by Cerberus.  He's a Paragon who got duped.  Garrus is arguable.  For all his bodycount, he's killing really bad guys.  Perhaps Legion?

[razor150]

Catroi wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Catroi wrote...

I thought this was so insulting to people who choose morinth...
Well Samara was right: you'll regret this

There's no justification for choosing Morinth over Samara.  Whatever Morinth gets in the end is too good for her.

Really? She never had a choice in life, she was either going in a prison for the rest of her life or being executed and I know that if I was her I would have done the exact same thing, better live a short real life than live a thousand year in a prison...

Morinth is a seriel killer. Would you use the same logic in defense of someone like Ted Bundy? She is a monster, and a completely unsympathetic character. The monastary wasn't a horrible place, it wasn't great but better then her out amongst innocent people. Her preference to be free and murder people shows she needed to be there. Only way she would have been sympathetic and for your arguement to make a lick of sense is if she was free and not murdering people acrossed the galaxy. 

If all free Ardat-Yakshi end up like Morinth forcing them into a monastary is a very necessary step to protect people from them.

[Shepardtheshepard]

"Morinth is a tragic figure, but not a sympathetic one."

[sw04ca]

Dendio1 wrote...
No you did not just say your speculation was better than mine!?

This means war:wizard:

THIS HURTS YOU.

[p__q]

Ryuukishi wrote...

The vehement hatred for Morinth is funny to me. Mass Effect is full of morally questionable and downright bad characters, many of whom work with Shepard or become his allies; Morinth is just one of many. Yet she receives this passionate, pure hatred.

While her character is probably one of the most evil you come across I honestly think what seperates her from the others and causes a lot of the hate for her is the underlying fact that she goes against fundamental gamer logic.

To obtain her you basically trade away a character who you know more about and would have had more interactions with so your loosing out on content, also it may sound strange to discuss canon about a game based on choices but we all know its basically a given that Samara is "the canonical choice" while Morinth is the hard to obtain rare option and to top it off if you do recruit Morinth and expect her to act like every other squad memeber she can actually kill  the great comander Shepard.

From an average gamer's perspective a character that reduces content, goes against the percieved story and undermines the main character is pretty much satan, of course her morality might be all it takes for some people to hate her but notice if you bring up something similarly counter intuative like not recruiting Garrus or wrex in ME1 for example, many people will view that choice with the same utter disdain as they do Morinth just because it goes against  instinct as a gamer. 

[Geneaux486]

Basically there is no defense for Morinth. Whatever injustice she had thrust upon her with her genetic defect, whatever limited choices she had, are all invalidated because after she obtained her freedom she killed innocent people like there was no tommorow. That part of her life was a personal choice, as was her total lack of remorse and her clear resolve to never change.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 04 mai 2012 - 02:20 .

[PsyrenY]

She's a psychotic serial killer with NO redeeming qualities. None. If you put her on your ship you should be court-martialled and tossed to Cerberus permanently.

[Soga_Iname]

razor150 wrote,...

Morinth is a seriel killer. Would you use the same logic in defense
of someone like Ted Bundy? She is a monster, and a completely
unsympathetic character.

Never met Ted Bundy so I can't really say how I feel about the guy. But I do sympathize with Morinth's character so it would seem you conclusion is completely false.

Geneaux486 wrote...

Basically there is no defense for Morinth.

Alright, I don't really care. I'll still choose her over Samara every time.

Optimystic_X wrote...

She's a psychotic serial killer with NO redeeming qualities.

Redeeming qualities are a matter of perspective, and are honestly overrated anyway.

Modifié par Soga_Iname, 04 mai 2012 - 12:17 .