158 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

Ok, because of this topic, I took my Incisor X (with stability III, sniper rail III and disruptor ammo I) out for a spin on H/C/G with my SI. Was surprisingly effective. We were playing with a braindead krogan vanguard, an ok AJ and a GI with a Javelin. Was neck and neck between me and Javelin GI with the other two barely contributing. We wiped on wave 10 when it was just me and and the GI and a Phantom gutstabbed while I was in cloak capping an objective ffs. But I solo'd the end of Wave 9 with it (Phantoms/Atlases/Engineers/Guardians) and found it very, very useful. Phantoms went down easier because the high RoF/loads of ammo made it much more forgiving to shoot them while they were flipping around.

I'm retracting any statements I made previously about this gun. In the right hands, with the stability consumable, it is a very effective high RoF sniper.

[GroverA125]

InfamousResult wrote...

Indenter wrote...

Enemies don't instantly take more damage if you play on gold FBW. Quit the comparison with bronze.

Seriously. These guys only watched the first second of the video, saw that it took place in FBW, and were like "LOL I HAVE MY POST~". The point is that the weapon can kill enemies fairly quickly on Gold difficulty, and he proved that. Yes, there are Snipers that can kill faster, but that doesn't make the Incisor trash. Different weapons for different playstyles.

GroverA125 wrote...

I'm just going to jump ahead and assume

I'm just going to jump ahead and assume you didn't watch the video and don't have an informed opinion.

Actually, I did watch a fair while of it. If I had a level 10 Incisor, I wouldn't have to assume, but I do not have one and therefore I will have to, as watching someone using it is far different to actually using it yourself.

As I said before: not epic, but usable, just like the M-8. possibly gold material, but unlikely due to the niche it fills being rather obsolete on high difficulties. The niche I am referring to is anti-infantry, AKA taking out the little ones. When I get it, I will judge for myself, but from what I can see, it's not as bad at level 10 as it is at level 3.

[HolyAvenger]

...I strongly suggest anyone who is against this gun try it out with a rail amp and stability amp III (EB and AP mods) and see how they like it for themselves before judging. I used to hate it. With that set up I would put it at solidly mid-tier (below my Valiant but right next to Widow, Javelin).

[mybudgee]

No way..

[Tangster]

HolyAvenger wrote...

...I strongly suggest anyone who is against this gun try it out with a rail amp and stability amp III (EB and AP mods) and see how they like it for themselves before judging. I used to hate it. With that set up I would put it at solidly mid-tier (below my Valiant but right next to Widow, Javelin).

A weapon that requires consumables to become effective is on my mediocre list. I'm not against using consumables, but I tend to use them to make good weapons awesome as opposed to making weapons viable.

[Klokos]

I tried the Incestor earlier without any consumable nor ammo power and it was good, much better than what I remembered. I always liked the look of the gun and now I can take it and still perform nicely.

[HolyAvenger]

Tangster wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

...I strongly suggest anyone who is against this gun try it out with a rail amp and stability amp III (EB and AP mods) and see how they like it for themselves before judging. I used to hate it. With that set up I would put it at solidly mid-tier (below my Valiant but right next to Widow, Javelin).

A weapon that requires consumables to become effective is on my mediocre list. I'm not against using consumables, but I tend to use them to make good weapons awesome as opposed to making weapons viable.

Ehh, I see where you're coming from. On the other hand, I'll never use a stability amp for my Valiant because it has insanely good recoil. So why not use it on the Incisor and try make it a useable gun...anyway, just my opinion. I'll be taking it out for a spin from time to time. Looking forward to making mediocre infiltrators with their Black Widows cry when I outscore them with my Incisor:D

[Creston918]

RazRei wrote...

The Incisor X + AP Mod + Barrel Mod + stabilization III + Targeting VI/Sniper Amp III + AP Ammo + Infiltrator with the normal build = probably the most fun you're going to have with an infiltrator.

Trust me try that out and look at how fast **** dies if you aim for the head. Its actually on par with my BW II at times in taking things out.

Not to be rude, but if you tag that much equipment on ANY kind of weapon, it's going to rock pretty well, right?

I have to admit I tried the Incisor once, saw the recoil, frowned in abject disapproval and forever relegated it to the "scroll past it really quickly on my way to the good guns" category. The new anti-recoil consumables probably help out with it quite a bit without forcing you to put a recoil reducer V on it.

Btw, does AP ammo stack with the AP Mod?

[Tangster]

Creston918 wrote...
Btw, does AP ammo stack with the AP Mod?

Yes.

[TraceFractal]

It's clearly not a bad weapon but most weapons are viable on Gold you know.

Furthermore, you can't really use comparisons featuring consumables. I already can OHKO stuff with my Claymore X without consumables for instance.

[Rokayt]

Tangster wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

...I strongly suggest anyone who is against this gun try it out with a rail amp and stability amp III (EB and AP mods) and see how they like it for themselves before judging. I used to hate it. With that set up I would put it at solidly mid-tier (below my Valiant but right next to Widow, Javelin).

A weapon that requires consumables to become effective is on my mediocre list. I'm not against using consumables, but I tend to use them to make good weapons awesome as opposed to making weapons viable.

While what you say sounds like good doctrine, it is not quite.
Certain guns do not have a simply viable level, they go from Unusable-Totally awesome. Why is this? Its based on the concept of required secondary powers. Super speed is utterly useless if your flesh tears from your bones, similarly, having an excellent dps when your damage per shot and accuracy put your actuall dps far below the theorhetical dps is not awesome.
With both issues fixed. You now have Excellent DPS.
Thus your simple stating of a falicy ridden docrtrine is false.
Smara.... Smart....... Ashh..... AWAYYYY!
I should come:wizard: (Sorry guys, arrive doesn't cut it for my cheesy parody needs anymore.)


Edit: Basically, All arguements on usability should be made from the innitial point of viability. All comparisons should be made with both items equally beefed up with the same consumables (Or equivalants, no shotgun amps on snipers please.) Otherwise coming to any sort of understanding on the usefullness of gun X is totally pointless, as we will be infinitly far from from any sort of agreement ever. Where as accurate teir values can be applied to the difficult to figure out, but awesome to get right guns of the game if we use the above, in edit, process.

Modifié par Rokayt, 04 mai 2012 - 07:15 .

[Miriad]

There are exactly 0 viper infiltrators that will beat a GI shotgun (claymore) infiltrator. I always wonder where these people who say they're topping the charts with this build or that weapon are having when I'm playing, because I've not seen it happen, and am very doubtful that it could happen if you have decent players on the team with "the confirmed good" loadouts. People who "win" on gold by less than 10k usually use rockets to do it...

[BoomDynamite]

[quote]Firesteel7 wrote...

[quote]BoomDynamite wrote...

[quote]Descy_ wrote...

[quote]BoomDynamite wrote...

[quote]Descy_ wrote...

[quote]BoomDynamite wrote...

[quote]Sdrol117 wrote...

[quote]Rokayt wrote...

[quote]Sdrol117 wrote...

[quote]SGC Reaper SV wrote...

[quote]Descy_ wrote...

Now try something besides Bronze.[/quote]
+1

My Valiant II laughs at the Incisor

[/quote]

The Raptor laughs at the incisor...

[/quote]

Thats unfair for anything. I mean, if the raptor proved good enough for me to name all my characters after it in one way or another, that says something.

[/quote]

The Viper laughs at the incisor too....

[/quote]
My Black Widow II laughs on your Viper

[/quote]

  https://encrypted-tb...ixpPHu1hRz2EctA


checkmate, Boom.

[/quote]
Umm, YOU FORGOT THE KISHOCK BLOCKING THE QUEEN! HAH JUST CHECK!

[/quote]

Dark magician, DARK MAGIC ATTACCCCKKKUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]
Pikachu?

[/quote]
I counter your Dark Magician with Cancel

[/quote]
Well, I guess there is only one option. MEWTWO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Ace_Blazer]

Watched a couple of your videos. I still think the Incisor sucks. Most of the damage was being done by the guy with the Widow. You were having trouble with Pyros and Centurions, so yea no I'm sticking with a gun where I can actually get decent headshots.

[Sacrificial Bias]

It's half decent, but really meant to be fired in cover. Headshots are a necessity. Armored targets make the low damage per shot more painful, even with an AP mod. And as fast as it fires, I believe the Black Widow will do more damage per cloak cycle than the Incisor simply because a GI can potentially empty all 3 shots with the cloak bonus. It would take about 5-6 shots to rival a single shot of the BW, so the entire clip of the Incisor will not equal the entire clip of the Black Widow, and you can't even empty out the entire clip before you uncloak.

The weapon does have some advantages if you know how to use them. One, it more or less ignores shield-gating. Two, multi-shot means it can pick off elites and trash mobs faster and more efficiently than the Black Widow.

The only real catch is that you have to be a master at getting headshots with the thing. Given the recoil I'd say it would be pretty tough to do so without it being on a Turian or using Stability Mods.

Also, I think people on the console would have an easier time compensating for the recoil. I notice nearly all the YouTube videos I see of this gun are taken on PCs, and I'd imagine they would have a hard time constantly dragging the mouse off the pad and putting it back on.

Relatively speaking, the recoil isn't that bad compared to the Raptor(0.437 recoil VS 1 recoil on the Raptor). It's just that having that powerful of a scope makes it a bigger issue. I'd bet if the Raptor had the same powered scope other sniper rifles have, recoil on that would be a real pain as well.

[Rokayt]

Miriad wrote...

There are exactly 0 viper infiltrators that will beat a GI shotgun (claymore) infiltrator. I always wonder where these people who say they're topping the charts with this build or that weapon are having when I'm playing, because I've not seen it happen, and am very doubtful that it could happen if you have decent players on the team with "the confirmed good" loadouts. People who "win" on gold by less than 10k usually use rockets to do it...

Topping the charts does not mean you have contributed the most to the team... See techbursts, biotic explosions, and sabotouge backfires. It can mean that you have carryed the team, it could mean that you were a total beast that game. But it also, very likely could simply mean someone set you up or worked for you. Remember, Burst DPS is totally ideal for kill stealing, in which case you will simply get more points then MR Incisor because you shot last, not because you outperformed them in the slightest.
In addition, that claymore is totally worthless fighting in any long distance, low death situation, that GI will drop like a fly without a cyclonic mod, and you are totally dependent on support when that tactical cloak wears off and you are reload canceling still.
MR Incisor is that support. He is popping heads all around you to enable your magic little life to go on a little longer before you inevitalby flatline/BSOD due to a brute, banshee, or phantom seeing through your little guise.
Regardless, if you have topped the charts at all on a game that was won, that is proof enough that the build you used was viable and at least rather good if not an OP minmaxed magickarp build.
Valiants still loose to raptors, and Claymores still loose to Katanas, every, single, day.
Basically, Let others builds be.

[Tangster]

Rokayt wrote...
Remember, Burst DPS is totally ideal for kill stealing, in which case you will simply get more points then MR Incisor because you shot last, not because you outperformed them in the slightest.

Experience per enemy is shared based on how much of the damage each person did. Doing 99% of the damage but not the killing shot gives you 99% of the XP in the end game ego bar, but still says you "assisted" in the kill.

[DivineAura]

You can pull the trigger 2 times to kill a normal unit, if you headshot.

[RazRei]

Creston918 wrote...

RazRei wrote...

The Incisor X + AP Mod + Barrel Mod + stabilization III + Targeting VI/Sniper Amp III + AP Ammo + Infiltrator with the normal build = probably the most fun you're going to have with an infiltrator.

Trust me try that out and look at how fast **** dies if you aim for the head. Its actually on par with my BW II at times in taking things out.

Not to be rude, but if you tag that much equipment on ANY kind of weapon, it's going to rock pretty well, right?

I have to admit I tried the Incisor once, saw the recoil, frowned in abject disapproval and forever relegated it to the "scroll past it really quickly on my way to the good guns" category. The new anti-recoil consumables probably help out with it quite a bit without forcing you to put a recoil reducer V on it.

Btw, does AP ammo stack with the AP Mod?

Nope you're not being rude at all but come up with a valid point.

All weapons in this game is good but with the right combo it can be better.  IMO I use the BW but I think its bit of a trash.  With BW II + AP mod + Barrel mod + AP Ammo/Warp mod on gold it can't kill a cannibal in one hit if you don't hit the right spot.  Just like the BW the Incisor can be good with the right combo of items.

Hell even my Claymore X + Choke + Barrel can't kill a guardian unless its got the Shredder mod or AP ammo mod.

All in all the gun is okay, but with the mods you can make it on par with even the best, of course with the best weapons in the best you can make them better too.

My post is for people who are bored to just play around.  I get tired of using the BW on my infiltrator and is the reason why I have a Claymore/Talon/Paladin built infiltrator for that purpose alone.  Hell I got back to using the Mantis/Widow/Javelin and embaress Valiant/BW users.  

Shotgun build Krogan soldier?  To die for fun.
Turian soldier with Hurricane?  LOL as the mass majority doesn't know that its a boss build.

[Rokayt]

Tangster wrote...

Rokayt wrote...
Remember, Burst DPS is totally ideal for kill stealing, in which case you will simply get more points then MR Incisor because you shot last, not because you outperformed them in the slightest.

Experience per enemy is shared based on how much of the damage each person did. Doing 99% of the damage but not the killing shot gives you 99% of the XP in the end game ego bar, but still says you "assisted" in the kill.

Theres still points awarded for no point other then it was the killing shot.

Taking out one square of health on the atlas is worth 900 points as it is the last square. Giving you almost as many points as the guy who took out all its health but that square, who got, what, 1100 points. This game is totally biassed in favor of the killers, as they will get almost as many points, if not more, then the people who have softened up the targets. So a 60 damage assist from Mr Indra that is 40 damage kill from Mr. Claymore kill still favors Mr. Claymore by a huuuuuuuugeee margin when it comes to points.

[wKmike]

What's with the talk about score now? I was top of the leaderboard for the three waves of the Cerberus video. And i was 2nd with the Geth video, and the other top guy had a widow and used missiles..

We all scored higher than the N7 3000 guy with the black widow. I did my contribution to the gold match and made my point that the gun isn't terrible as previously thought.

Modifié par wKmike, 04 mai 2012 - 07:49 .

[jaDanger]

I don't really buy the argument that if a gun requires certain mods or characters it is crap. Some guns, such as the hurricane, are extremely powerful but come with a drawback, in that case massive recoil. If you have a way to use the advantages of the gun by reducing or removing the negative aspect, like putting turian stability bonuses to work, then a gun can go from novelty to powerhouse, leapfrogging other guns that would be better in the process.

So if i think my phaeston is better than my hurricane because the lack of recoil allows me to do more damage, I can still modify or use character bonuses to make my hurricane more powerful than the phaeston ever could be.

People are using this same illogical approach to the incisor. They say that if it needs equiptment to be good, i'd rather use the equipment on a gun that is already good and make it better. In reality, if it's advantages can be brought forth to outweigh the advantages of another gun when giving appropriate equipment to both, there is no reason not to use it if you were planning to use equpment anyway

[Ninefingers79]

Well, the topic got me interested so I took my GI to a Gold match. Level 18 GI with full damage evolutions (no prox mine), Incisor X, EB V, AP V, Sniper Amp III, AP Ammo III and Stability Mod III.

Yes, I took top spot, but with only 98K. The rifle is Gold viable and to be honest, I found it most effective vs. Atlases since I could almost empty my whole clip before the Cloak bonus wore off and have all of the shots hits - even with the Geth evolutions and the stability mod, the gun bounced about quite a bit unless shot from cover.

I feel I would have scored much higher with my BW III or even the Valiant I, but that's just a hypothesis. Ultimately I feel it fell short on taking out highly mobile targets like Nemeses or Phantoms; the short burst isn't enough to do serious damage and the recoil makes keeping a bead on a moving target very difficult.

For stationary targets, sure, it's great - but so is any sniper rifle. I'll try it again without consumables to see how dependent on those it was, because I have a feeling that without the consumables, I wouldn't have taken top spot.

[BoomDynamite]

I tried it. It sucks. AND I was using the same mods as ^ and the same evos and equipment.

[Sacrificial Bias]

BoomDynamite wrote...

I tried it. It sucks. AND I was using the same mods as ^ and the same evos and equipment.

I think the thing is that you really HAVE to use the thing differently compared to a Black Widow.  For my BW III I find I don't go for headshots outside of a Geth Prime and the occasional elite mob that's standing still, mostly because it's unnecessary(1 cloak bodyshot kills a trash troop, 3 cloaked shots for elites).

The thing is, attempting to mash the trigger as fast as you can will really screw up the shots in a big way.  So I would expect maybe 2-3 cloaked shots max.  The damage isn't half bad though.  I realize Bronze is a bad example, though 2 cloaked shots will kill an elite, and the full clip takes out a Prime.

I'll have to try a FBWGG run to get a more accurate comparison, but I find I like the Incisor over the Raptor still.  It's probably because I'm bad with a weak scope, but I end up getting more headshots with the Incisor over the Raptor.

Still, after watching the video, I can completely understand that this is still a crap weapon for PC users.  Looks like the joystick has its merits:D.


P.S.
Just as a reminder to everyone, this is an UNCOMMON sniper rifle.  So expecting it to outperform a Widow or Black Widow is a little...meh?

Modifié par Sacrificial Bias, 04 mai 2012 - 08:37 .