126 réponses à ce sujet

[A Wild Snorlax]

Killahead wrote...

I didn't watch the video (my pc is downright horrible, youtube makes it freeze, haha), but I'm beginning to think that Bioware didn't factor in the damage bonus from cloak when buffing backfire. It is kind of silly how effective it is now.

Oh look the number 1 nerf griefer on these forums the past few days is here.

@ the OP, thanks for the video.

[heybigmoney]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Yet energy drain restores your shields while sabotage doesn't. Problem?? Really does seem like another case of "NERF ALL THE THINGS!"

Except restoring shields doesn't matter on a class with tac cloak.  See every single godmode geth infil gold build with practically no points in fitness and half shields from having hunter mode on.  

Not once did i ask for sabo to be nerfed.  I was just pointing out that something glaringly op is op.

[molecularman]

fBut but but... Does sabotage work against stuff like banshees or brutes?

[Ninefingers79]

Just had a run with a respecced QI. Gold, Cerberus, Hydra. I was put into a game already underway with only two other players, so I had no consumables equipped. Using BW III. We ended up wiping on Wave 9, but I topped the boards with 90K and the other two guys had 32K and 30K respectively.

Sabotage is pretty brutal now. The nice thing is that thanks to the delay, you can kill things with "one shot" even after they run off behind a corner. It was a bit weird getting all those delayed Black Widow kills and there were a few troopers who died without yielding experience, but for the most part even with only two other guys playing everything died to SOMEONE, so there was no real issue with losing experience.

Needs more testing, but it feels very strong now. It didn't do as much damage to Phantoms as I'd have liked (took off about half their barriers) but once their barriers are down, it definitely helps.

[Saradas85]

was already using this without feeling the need to post it on forum. now thanks to you this is gonna get nerfed in 3...2...1...

[AshirahTSparkle]

molecularman wrote...

fBut but but... Does sabotage work against stuff like banshees or brutes?

Only enemies with conventional weapons (+Phantoms) are affected.

[ManixEther]

They should consider giving the Quarian Engineer sabotage instead of cryo blast or incinerate. The QE is kind of bad compared to the other engineers (especially the GE).

[SeijiTataki]

Honestly, if people have a problem with damage, the simplest thing to do is to just make it get penalized by shield gating. This would mean that it's still amazing on bronze, very good on silver, and useful on Gold (since it would still strip shields from enemies, but not do the vast majority of their health total)

Also, Cryo -> Incinerate -> Incinerate is a pretty solid form of doing damage on armored targets, so it isn't as bad as it seems at first glance, so is a decent power combo for Quarian Engineers.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Time abuse this before QI is nerfed a second time.

I missed the broke QI because I was playing SP at the time.

[tytanowy]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

molecularman wrote...

fBut but but... Does sabotage work against stuff like banshees or brutes?

Only enemies with conventional weapons (+Phantoms) are affected.

OniGanon in video said that it affects all organics even w/o weapons. So I don't know. I haven't tested my new QI build vs reapers yet. Only Cerberus.

[Wang Lightning]

This looks amazing. I had no idea, nice find! Too bad you don't get XP for the kill though. It's surprising backfire damage doesn't count.

[AshirahTSparkle]

I have yet to see ravagers, banshee, brute get affected by it yet. Cerberus doesn't have any armored units except atlas, so they are all affected. Same goes for Geth being hackable. So that leaves Reapers with 3 armored units that I have yet to see get damaged by backfire.

[Core_Commander]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Yet energy drain restores your shields while sabotage doesn't. Problem?? Really does seem like another case of "NERF ALL THE THINGS!"

Sniper infiltrators don't care about their own shields. Case in point: geth.

It's not about "nerfing all the things", despite the catchy image, there have been only nine (9) nerfs so far. Bioware nerfs stuff that breaks the game, trivializing the challenge. If they didn't, the options would be to:

a) buff other stuff to the same level. Now, if one person used to be able to lock down a Gold wave (old QI for geth, decoy for geth, falcon for anything), then buffing others would mean that your team can lock down more enemies that are capable of spawning with minimal thought, aim or tactics. Thus, the falcon winbombs had to go.

ignore it and "let people have their fun (with overpowered weapons/powers)". The weapon/power becomes the go-to golden gun. Obtaining it becomes an aim in itself. Those that don't have it, want it. Those that don't use it are called noobs and kicked from lobbies. Those that have it, no longer have to worry about progress or challenge, and every match becomes just routine credit farming. Eventually boredom sets in and they leave the game.

So... like I said, 9 individual weapon/powers nerfs so far. Compared to 60-something buffs, it's not a lot, and proof that BW is giving careful deliberation to game balance. If backfire turns out to be overbuffed, I'm sure it'll be cut back down to size, to still be useful but not making the gameplay trivial. No need for doomsaying just yet.

Saradas85 wrote...

was already using this without feeling
the need to post it on forum. now thanks to you this is gonna get nerfed
in 3...2...1...

Yeah, just hush-hush and everybody gets to keep their toys. No way BW is able to receive feedback from their own gam... oh wait, what's that? "Upload game feedback" option is on? Nevermind then.

It's funny how people in online games always assume that forums are the primary source of companies' information and "what happens in-game, stays in-game".

Modifié par Core_Commander, 05 mai 2012 - 10:41 .

[llandwynwyn]

I don't play much Infil. but when I do is always QI thanks to sabotage. It was useful before the buff and now it's even better.

Saradas85 wrote...

was already using this without feeling the need to post it on forum. now thanks to you this is gonna get nerfed in 3...2...1...

ahahah

[HolyAvenger]

Promoted my infiltrators so I could rebuild my QI to take full advantage of sabotage. What evolutions are people suggesting?

[Saradas85]

Core_Commander wrote...

Yeah, just hush-hush and everybody gets to keep their toys. No way BW is able to receive feedback from their own gam... oh wait, what's that? "Upload game feedback" option is on? Nevermind then.
It's funny how people in online games always assume that forums are the primary source of companies' information and "what happens in-game, stays in-game".

This is not an exploit, dude. It's just a nice build. A Throw with maxed damage build kills a trooper instantly (and many other units) and its cool down is waaaay lower than Sabo. This game is not only shoot-shoot, there's a tactic behind character builds.
When ALL possible builds are put on the forum, fun=0 because now a billion people is going to make THIS EXACT build, flooding games and making the game FLAT.
Let people experiment builds on their own.

[Core_Commander]

Saradas85 wrote...

This is not an exploit, dude. It's just a nice build. A Throw with maxed damage build kills a trooper instantly (and many other units) and its cool down is waaaay lower than Sabo. This game is not only shoot-shoot, there's a tactic behind character builds.
When ALL possible builds are put on the forum, fun=0 because now a billion people is going to make THIS EXACT build, flooding games and making the game FLAT.
Let people experiment builds on their own.

First of all, I didn't say "exploit", dude. My point is that if a build is too "nice", BW will know and is likely to change it,
regardless of the forums' stance on the matter - because they get their feedback directly from gameplay. No need to go all "OMG you should've stayed quiet!" about it. Online games don't work that way, there is data collected and analyzed, forum feedback is auxilliary at best.

And yeah, throw does kill unshielded enemies, but if sabotage could only kill a trooper then it would be a non-issue. Have you seen OP's video? Think you can do that with throw and one shot of a gun? Because it also chews through shields and shield gate, has instant travel time, double stagger with further vulnerability, stuff, you know.

I am and have been using a QI since forever, it's one of my favorite classes, I don't even have to change my build much to take full advantage of this buff, and I will, for a while. We'll see how it goes, but whatever discussion is here is academic and for the playerbase's own pleasure - nerfs and buffs are decided through direct feedback, primarily.

Lastly, with this amount of people playing, builds will be found and posted. I was using a "damage/explosion/vulnerability" build before the buff (because I was sick of my QI only being useful as a hackbot) and I noticed a spike in effectiveness, and there were many others, eventually someone will post it. "Information wants to be free", you know. Optimal builds for games being shared is a thing that existed since before the internet. The way not to make everyone flock to it... is make sure it's not head-and-shoulders above the rest. That's how balance preserves diversity, and fun in the game - I touched upon it in my previous post.


...waaait a second, you say "it's just a nice build", yet it was you who wanted to keep it a secret, lest it gets nerfed? Now why would you worry whether or not BW knows about it, if it was fine like you've said? You wouldn't happen to think that it might be overpowered a tad yourself, now would you?

Modifié par Core_Commander, 05 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[Lexa_D]

Saradas85 wrote...

was already using this without feeling the need to post it on forum. now thanks to you this is gonna get nerfed in 3...2...1...

Ah, poor baby.

[Poekel]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

I have yet to see ravagers, banshee, brute get affected by it yet.

This is prebuff. With the buff you could solo gold runs without having to use missiles during kill objectives (wasnt possible before). To kill a brute gold with the buff you now need 4 consecutive hits with sabotage.

[Ninefingers79]

Tried this build over a few Gold games now, and it's definitely very powerful. It does damage Banshees, Brutes, Ravagers and all that jazz. Even without fully investing in power evolutions in the Quarian tree. I'm very happy with my build, so if anyone wants to give it a go:

Tac Cloak 6: damage, recharge, sniper damage
Sabotage 6: backfire damage, exploding hacks, tech damage
Quarian 6: power & weight, headshots, weapon damage
Fitness 6: shields & health, recharge, shields & health

You'll get plenty of tech bursts with the right ammo as well. Using BW III personally, but I can see this working with single-shot rifles as well since all you need to do to kill most mooks is Sabotage, strip their shields, then wait for them to die mysteriously.

[Bhatair]

I've always loved sabatoge. QI has always been my favorite infiltrator to use as a sniper.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Dang, I do not remember Sabotage being that good...but don't worry they will probably nerf it again -.-

[Oodle12]

Ninefingers79 wrote...

Tried this build over a few Gold games now, and it's definitely very powerful. It does damage Banshees, Brutes, Ravagers and all that jazz. Even without fully investing in power evolutions in the Quarian tree. I'm very happy with my build, so if anyone wants to give it a go:

Tac Cloak 6: damage, recharge, sniper damage
Sabotage 6: backfire damage, exploding hacks, tech damage
Quarian 6: power & weight, headshots, weapon damage
Fitness 6: shields & health, recharge, shields & health

You'll get plenty of tech bursts with the right ammo as well. Using BW III personally, but I can see this working with single-shot rifles as well since all you need to do to kill most mooks is Sabotage, strip their shields, then wait for them to die mysteriously.

U need to choose power damage twice under what you've labelled quarian 6, that way it will 1 hit kill assault troopers. Without both bonuses it leaves them on 1 bar of hp.
Since i was using a GPS I went, 4/6/6/5/3
Sticky grenade do something like 1750 damage and can be boosted to do more armor damage, its great as u can also use them in stealth

Modifié par Oodle12, 05 mai 2012 - 02:51 .

[someN7orother]

 This is great. I can finally pull my weight as a QI. I'm so stealthy now that the game doesn't even register my kills - I point and mobs just fall over, dead.