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Is Bioware actually listening???


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#26
Quigonquinn

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Terror_K wrote...

CG Drum wrote...

They may be listening but the lack of communication they are doing is giving the impression that they aren't.

Not sure whose idea it was for them to just not respond to their customers but personally seems like a very poor decision to me.


Well... depends what you prefer: a non-response, or things like the following:-

Players: They face import doesn't work! What the hell, BioWare?!
BioWare: Sorry, we didn't bother to do any testing on this and decided to borrow Obsidian's QA department.
Players: Are you going to actually do anything about it now?
BioWare: Give us a couple of weeks and we'll have a fix. Don't worry.
Players: Okay then. Good.
{A couple of weeks pass}
BioWare: Okay, we've found the issue and fix is incoming.
Players: Good.
BioWare: Okay, fix'd.
Players: Okay. (pause) Uh... this isn't fixed.
BioWare: Yes it is.
Players: No, it's not.
BioWare: We've fixed the error. If the fix doesn't work, that's your problem.
Players: But it doesn't work. Here's hundreds of pictures of proof that it doesn't.
BioWare: No, you're wrong. It's fixed. The problem you're experiencing is a problem we claim exists that doesn't.
Players: No, you're lying. In fact... looking at things more closely, it appears impossible to create certain faces at all in ME3.
BioWare: ...
Players: Are you listening BioWare?
BioWare: ...
Players: BioWare?
BioWare: ....
BioWare has logged out.


Marry me!

So it would appear.....deaf ears it falls upon...

#27
TheRealJayDee

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Terror_K wrote...

CG Drum wrote...

They may be listening but the lack of communication they are doing is giving the impression that they aren't.

Not sure whose idea it was for them to just not respond to their customers but personally seems like a very poor decision to me.


Well... depends what you prefer: a non-response, or things like the following:-

Players: They face import doesn't work! What the hell, BioWare?!
BioWare: Sorry, we didn't bother to do any testing on this and decided to borrow Obsidian's QA department.
Players: Are you going to actually do anything about it now?
BioWare: Give us a couple of weeks and we'll have a fix. Don't worry.
Players: Okay then. Good.
{A couple of weeks pass}
BioWare: Okay, we've found the issue and fix is incoming.
Players: Good.
BioWare: Okay, fix'd.
Players: Okay. (pause) Uh... this isn't fixed.
BioWare: Yes it is.
Players: No, it's not.
BioWare: We've fixed the error. If the fix doesn't work, that's your problem.
Players: But it doesn't work. Here's hundreds of pictures of proof that it doesn't.
BioWare: No, you're wrong. It's fixed. The problem you're experiencing is a problem we claim exists that doesn't.
Players: No, you're lying. In fact... looking at things more closely, it appears impossible to create certain faces at all in ME3.
BioWare: ...
Players: Are you listening BioWare?
BioWare: ...
Players: BioWare?
BioWare: ....
BioWare has logged out.


For a moment I was tempted to write a similar dialogue about the SP/EMS fiasco, but then I decided not to, because we who care all know the embarrassing facts and your post already summed up the recent Bioware attitude perfectly.

#28
CmndrFisher

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Deltakarma wrote...

They need new hearing aids and/or glasses.


Perhaps, but what good will those things do if they have their heads buried up *instert Mess Sgt. Gardner qoute here*  At least that where they appear to be since they don't seem to be listening to us.

#29
Atakuma

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They do tend to be a little to vague, however I can understand why they do that. They can't say anything without people taking it as a solid oath or a complete insult.

#30
Gruntburner

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I remember one of the employees (possibly Jessica Merizan) answering something akin to this on twitter. Their answer involved them not wanting to make promises they couldn't keep. Considering broken promises is one of the biggest problems people seem to have with ME3, it sure seems like they are listening. Its just that making DLC is a long and arduous process and often you can go months without any real updates.

#31
visionazzery

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Sceptical very sceptical and as the host of this thread pointed out regarding 'singleplayer commitments' = "bullshyte" spot on...

The facts are daming for Bioware...and they have to at least KEEP ACCEPTING CRITICISM as we are all trying to HELP them to see the light- by giving them direction we not just fans we the consumers....we the players we are the ones who pledge a commitment for those of us ESPECIALLY who sought to experiment with multiple charsacter especialy from playthroughs vis mass effect original start of the franchise it makes many ESPECIALLY peeved that indeed...Bioware sought to do ONLY what THEY thought was best and NOT look after most fan's best interests OUr best intrests. Do game companies make games only to suit themselves or are they made for us the gamer the consumer?

Everyone has everyright to question whether or not Bioware are listening.

People need to remember when mass effect 2 came out it was revealed clearly what dlc was coming out...yes there was no mplayer, but ultimately, one could argue they would not have made the effort they did in me2 if they didn't care to make the experience DEEPER than they thought.

By all accounts i think most of uss accept we being treated with close to zero respect from Bioware and EA when it comes to singleplayer future dlc...and NOT just the ending...whatmaddens people is they WANT extra singleplayer missions! They did not really want at all to have an ending revamp as extra dlc they wanted Bioware AND ea to get it right yes impossible to satisfy every fan round the world BUT IT NOT impossible to satisfy MAJORITY of the core fan base that followed the ME series from the out set right?

Where is the plan? Something i love to know we all desperately want and have a right to know,.

Tidbbit announcements are NOT good enough they are unacceptable- because they do not imply any genuine will to APPLY their claims they are 'listening' to us.

This is the greatest tragedy in gaming- if Bioware cannot start to outline a comprehensive plan of their schedule and strategy for more singleplayer dlc and to iron out the mpbugs.

#32
visionazzery

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link that engages direct with this topic very relevant and timely given this recent topic

http://social.biowar...5&poll_id=33278

#33
Beeno4Life

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Not really. :/

#34
Sebbe1337o

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DaJe wrote...

There was a popular threat about what endings the community would hate.

The actual ME3 ending is in there and elements of it have been brought up multiple times in that threat.

Listening my ass.


I was just going to bring this up. Great that someone else than me thought about it!
That thread is hilarious if you read it today. There's surprisingly many things in that thread that actually made it to ME3. That if anything is ridiculous.

#35
Guest_wastelander75_*

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"listening" is one thing. It's a positive thing, sure. But I wonder if they're "Listening" and actually "paying attention" to what's being said. That's what I personally wonder.

#36
Father_Jerusalem

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Given the amount of vitriol and hatred and mockery that is spewed from the so-called "fanbase" at the slightest comment from a dev... I honestly hope not.

#37
Atakuma

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They could come here and tell you that they are, but they'd be accused of lying.

#38
brfritos

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Atakuma wrote...

They could come here and tell you that they are, but they'd be accused of lying.


Well, there's reason for it... :whistle:

#39
Iakus

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EC will tell us once and for all if they're listening

#40
Atakuma

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brfritos wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

They could come here and tell you that they are, but they'd be accused of lying.


Well, there's reason for it... :whistle:

If Casey or Mac were the ones saying it, then yeah, but they would never come here anyway.

#41
jtrook

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I think it depends on the person. Jessica Merizan actually tries to answer our questions from what I have seen. Casey Hudson seems to be hiding in the bunker or is on vacation still. Walters seems to be doing the same. Some of the other writers and producers are doing what they can but when civil discussion is being covered up by flame attacks, twitter harassment, and just unfair attacks on the staff, you become apathetic to a group that just nit picks your every word.

#42
CmndrFisher

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Sebbe1337o wrote...

DaJe wrote...

There was a popular threat about what endings the community would hate.

The actual ME3 ending is in there and elements of it have been brought up multiple times in that threat.

Listening my ass.


I was just going to bring this up. Great that someone else than me thought about it!
That thread is hilarious if you read it today. There's surprisingly many things in that thread that actually made it to ME3. That if anything is ridiculous.


l seem to recall that thread (or one similar to it) and may have even commented in it.  I have looked for it but can't find it.  Could you provide a link please.  I'd like to read it again.

#43
Legion64

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Well, if my math is correct. My calculations have come to the fact that EA owns Bioware. If EA owns Bioware the solution to the equation would equal: Bioware doesn't care about you, pay up.

They learned from the best: EA!

#44
ChildOfEden

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timj2011 wrote...

NO!!!!!1111!!!1 THEY HATE US ALL!!!!1 THEY NEVER LISTEN, ALL HOPE IS LOST MIGHT AS WELL KILL OURSELVES

Well we know who's getting the Darwin Award.
The monkey!

#45
Dean_the_Young

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Perhaps they should stop, because it's blatantly apparent that they've been placed in a no-win situation by their 'fans'.

If they make a comment that defends their product, they get called shills. If they make a admitting flaws, they are accused of saying nothing. If they say nothing, it's an insult.

Meanwhile, if they address a gameplay issue it doesn't count. If they make specific means to gather opinions, it doesn't count. If they announce the development of a significant follow-up on the single biggest fan-decried issue, even to the point of re-scheduling their planned product development and priority list, it doesn't count and they aren't doing anything.

It's amazing that a company that insert so many references only apparent to fans and changes in games and story based on fan complaints of previous games, to the point of actively walking into new problems in order to avoid repeating old ones, is sincerely derided as not listening.

And people wonder why few would want to talk to them here.

#46
dmonorato

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Hearing yes, actually listening and comprehending not so much......

#47
RocketManSR2

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Considering they pretty much put everything in the game that most players on this forum said we didn't want, I'll go with no. Either that, or it was "opposite day" on that particular day.

#48
Sabrestrikealpha

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The fact that the question even needs to be asked shows that Bioware has handled this situation quite poorly. I actually posted a bit about this in another thread. Basically, Bioware is not "looping" properly.
Looping is a process in dispute resolution where the parties rephrase what they are being told in order to make sure they understand what the other side is saying. It offers an opportunity to (a) show you are listening and B) clear up any misunderstandings in what terms of what might have been heard. Here's a brief summary of how the process should look, along with a comparison of how the process is playing out in the ME3 context.

Step 1- Initial dialogue: This is where one side asks the other what is wrong. It could be thought of as the "tell me how you feel" step.

ME3 Status: Done. Bioware came out and said "We're listenting."

Step 2 - Response: This is where the other side starts talking about how they actually feel. Properly done, these statements should also include a reason why the person feels the way they do.

ME3 Status: Done. Look at any number of the threads discussing the situation. Some of these are obviously better than others in terms of being constructive and mature, but there is more than enough for Bioware to have heard what is being said.

Step 3 - Looping: This is the part where the initial party demonstrates that they heard and understood what is being told to them. It usually included phrases like "If I hear you correctly," or "Just so we understand each other." The purpose of this step is to verify that the parties actually understand each other. If they do, great, if not, Steps 2 and 3 should be repeated until each side is confident they have hear and understood what the other has said. Done properly, looping builds trust and respect between the parties.

ME3 Status: MISSING. Bioware is not doing this properly. All the community seems to be getting from Bioware is silence broken by the occasional repeat of "we're listening." This is not proper looping. If Bioware were actually doing this, I would have expected to see a response from someone involved saying something along the lines of "Based on what we're reading, the communities' current objections are [nonsensical ending/face import issue/MP bugs/all of the above]." 

The consequence of this failure can be seen on the forums. The lack of looping means that, although Bioware might be listening, we have no confirmation that Bioware has actually understood what they are being told. Worse, the lack of looping also means that the community doesn't have a reference point from which to judge any statements we do get. Thus, when a tweet like "I'm seeing really good things in the EC" comes out, the community isn't really sure how to take it. Given the amount of anger and frustration the situation has engendered, the statement usually gets twisted in the most cynical way possible, which as a tendency to reinforce the pre-existing negativity.

I get the sense that Bioware is scared that they would either give things away or make people even angrier by saying they weren't changing anything. However, looping doesn't require that. All it needs is for them to come out and say something like (using one example) "If we understand correctly, you are upset because you feel Starchild removes any sense of player agency." That's it. They don't need to say if they are changing it or not. They don't need to say how they are changing it if they are changing it, or how it fits into some master plan of theirs. They get to keep their secrecy and the community gets to see they actually understand what they are being told. A simple statement like that would go a long way towards defusing the situation, even if they don't change a single thing because it at least gives people a sense of validation that their concerns were heard.

#49
Lee80

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@Sabrestrikealpha

Totally agree with you on the points you made there. There's a major disconnect in the communication level for certain.

#50
XyleJKH

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I really hate this company now.... Eat a Dick BioWare