19 réponses à ce sujet

[Sereiphiel]

After reading other forums concerning the Old God soul child possibly being good (Truly a pure Old God soul being reborn separate from Blight taint - assuming Flemeth/Morrigan's original plan was to restore the soul of an untainted old God), evil (next Archdemon), or waiting to be possessed by Morrigan's mother Flemeth to achieve true immortality (perhaps Morrigan has the side quest to kill her mother because she wants true immortality herself). 
Honestly, it would make sense that Flemeth herself will possess the child (vessel for Flemeth with the immature untainted soul of an Old God) because since the beginning it was Flemeth that made the main characters journey even possible.  Flemeth/Morrigan know the archdemon has the ability to repossess another living being that has tainted blood even after death, hence the Grey Warden sacrifice.  On the flip side...you get an option to spare Flemeth and still give Morrigan the grimoire, lying to Morrigan keeping her in party.  Let's not forget that Flemeth had all the ancient Treaty documents necessary for the Grey Wardens to rally aid.
Either way, this will definitely play a big part in the sequel or expansion.  I'm willing to bet my money on the possibility that Flemeth, being the ONLY Witch of the Wilds (aside from her daughter Morrigan), truly intended to restore the untainted soul of an Old God.  On the other hand it is highly suggested the the Old God soul child will be possessed by Flemeth or Morrigan...  It seems unlikely the Flemeth or Morrigan were interested in rescuing the archdemon from destruction, thereby having an evil intention for conceiving the Old God child.
Aside from all the storyline possibilities in the sequel or expansion, I would like to know what happens when you (this is a restricted option, only avaliable to the Mage class) take the grimoire for yourself when confronting Flemeth during the side-story quest given by Morrigan is pursued.  The mage PC/MC can choose to keep the grimoire for his/her self.  Sadly, I forgot to save the game before making the decision to give the grimoire to Morrigan, instead of checking out the option to keep the grimoire for myself; which also results in a mandatory slaying of the green dragon Flemeth.

Modifié par Sereiphiel, 08 décembre 2009 - 02:17 .

[EricHVela]

Wall of text crit!

So is this up for discussion or just a statement you're making?

We already figured out that this has a major impact, but does it have to change things in the next installment? I think there is another way all of these things can manifest as a single event in the sequel: We only encounter the "Child God" without Morrigan or Flemeth, and the child is as cryptic as Flemeth was and as Morrigan can be, so we would never know exactly how this child came to be.

The only thing would be whether or not we would actually encounter this "Child God". That immediately makes him an optional encounter in the next installment of Dragon Age.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 08 décembre 2009 - 02:22 .

[Sereiphiel]

Technically it's a discussion and question, the first 2 paragraphs being part of the discussion. The third paragraph that starts with "Aside from all" is the question part.

[Sereiphiel]

Technically it's a discussion and question, the first 2 paragraphs being part of the discussion. The third paragraph that starts with "Aside from all" is the question part.

[Allattar1]

Well its stated that if the archdemons soul tries to jump to the body of the Warden, both souls are destroyed. So why should Flemeth replacing the old gods souls survive, merged with the old god?

If she did replace the old gods soul, then she is in a mortal body whilst the soul has moved on.



No they have another purpose for the old gods soul. Morrigan has a duty.



What does occur to me is that multiple routes have been checked to cover the players choices in game.



Morrigan knows about the dark ritual. We dont know whether she learnt the dark ritual from one of Flemeths books.

Whether it was her purpose from the beginning and was acting surprised when she was told to go.

It is possible that Morrigan never knew her purpose right then at the beginning.

For instance, if you recover the first tome from the circle and give it to Morrigan then she can learn of the ritual there. If you kill Flemeth Morrigan could learn of the ritual from Flemeths tome.

If you dont kill Flemeth but take her offer and take Morrigan Flemeths actual tome, she can learn it from that one again.

If you dont kill Flemeth, and dont give Morrigan the second Tome, then it could be learnt from the first, since you dont get Morrigans quest unless you get the first tome.



If you dont give Morrigan the first tome, then you cant kill Flemeth and Flemeth could possess Morrigan by the end, or indeed find Morrigan and tell her in secret before the finale.



Either way plenty of scenarios that can all lead to Morrigan only learning of the ritual later, rather than knowing throughout.

[sethroskull79]

If you don't kill Flemeth can you still get her grimoire and the new robes for Morrigan? Killing her is fun though, and good practice for the High Dragon. This story is very complex.

[menasure]

sethroskull79 wrote...

If you don't kill Flemeth can you still get her grimoire and the new robes for Morrigan? Killing her is fun though, and good practice for the High Dragon. This story is very complex.

you can, by chosing the right dialogue options. i have experienced some buggy moments in the story afterward though when talking with morrigan about ways to solve the flemeth situation so i'm not sure what the result will be.

[Sereiphiel]

sethroskull79 wrote...

If you don't kill Flemeth can you still get her grimoire and the new robes for Morrigan? Killing her is fun though, and good practice for the High Dragon. This story is very complex.

Yes one can completely avoid killing Flemeth, she gives the option to lie to Morrigan about slaying her, then gives you the key to the chest for her grimoire.

[Sereiphiel]

menasure wrote...

sethroskull79 wrote...

If you don't kill Flemeth can you still get her grimoire and the new robes for Morrigan? Killing her is fun though, and good practice for the High Dragon. This story is very complex.

you can, by chosing the right dialogue options. i have experienced some buggy moments in the story afterward though when talking with morrigan about ways to solve the flemeth situation so i'm not sure what the result will be.

You can lie to Morrigan about Flemeth, you won't lose any approval points or lose her.

[Sereiphiel]

Allattar1 wrote...

Well its stated that if the archdemons soul tries to jump to the body of the Warden, both souls are destroyed. So why should Flemeth replacing the old gods souls survive, merged with the old god?
If she did replace the old gods soul, then she is in a mortal body whilst the soul has moved on.

No they have another purpose for the old gods soul. Morrigan has a duty.

What does occur to me is that multiple routes have been checked to cover the players choices in game.

Morrigan knows about the dark ritual. We dont know whether she learnt the dark ritual from one of Flemeths books.
Whether it was her purpose from the beginning and was acting surprised when she was told to go.
It is possible that Morrigan never knew her purpose right then at the beginning.
For instance, if you recover the first tome from the circle and give it to Morrigan then she can learn of the ritual there. If you kill Flemeth Morrigan could learn of the ritual from Flemeths tome.
If you dont kill Flemeth but take her offer and take Morrigan Flemeths actual tome, she can learn it from that one again.
If you dont kill Flemeth, and dont give Morrigan the second Tome, then it could be learnt from the first, since you dont get Morrigans quest unless you get the first tome.

If you dont give Morrigan the first tome, then you cant kill Flemeth and Flemeth could possess Morrigan by the end, or indeed find Morrigan and tell her in secret before the finale.

Either way plenty of scenarios that can all lead to Morrigan only learning of the ritual later, rather than knowing throughout.

  I'm more interested in their intention for the Old God soul because Flemeth is coming back, Flemeth's soul is like the archdemon's, it can possess another body - a form of reincarnation.  She can do this indefinitely, unless someone actually tries to kill Flemeth's soul, thereby keeping Flemeth from ever coming back, by fooling her to possess a body that has the darkspawn taint in it.

Aside from that, does anyone know what happens if you decide to fight Flemeth anyway, but as a MAGE PC thereby choosing the dialogue option to tell Flemeth that you want to keep the grimoire for yourself.  When  you choose that dialogue option, Flemeth tells the mage PC that he/she must Earn the grimoire if you want it for yourself, then the fight will begin.

Modifié par Sereiphiel, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:21 .

[aleksandr the great]

I think that morrigan needs the child to get to sunshine land where they can eat cotton candy and ride unicorns all day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way im having a seizure....

[Sereiphiel]

aleksandr the great wrote...

I think that morrigan needs the child to get to sunshine land where they can eat cotton candy and ride unicorns all day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by the way im having a seizure....

...Ok then, good luck with that.

[Sereiphiel]

I didn't realize this at first, but Morrigan is a Celtic goddess in real life druidism lore. Needless to say, she will definitely play a major part possibly in the next expansion and definitely in the sequel. Assuming the sequel will not include the story of a distant land experiencing something before Flemeth/Morrigan's plan comes into fruition. I'm assuming that Morrigan's future plans will effect the Dragon Age world and not just Ferelden.

Modifié par Sereiphiel, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:23 .

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

I'm sure Flemeth has malicious intentions for the Old God soul... but Morrigan I'm not too sure.

I think Morrigan rather than having a secret evil plan intends to revive the Old God for the sake of restoring order to the world. I'm a huge skeptic regarding the Maker and the Chantry's teachings and I think Morrigan has a better understanding of history, causing her to know that things aren't the way they are suppose to be.

I don't know what happened in the Golden Palace, Old Gods, or Fade. But I think that child is the key to "fixing" everything and solving the mystery of what happened so many years ago.

Modifié par Mikazukinoyaiba2, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:38 .

[Sereiphiel]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I'm sure Flemeth has malicious intentions for the Old God soul... but Morrigan I'm not too sure.

I think Morrigan rather than having a secret evil plan intends to revive the Old God for the sake of restoring order to the world. I'm a huge skeptic regarding the Maker and the Chantry's teachings and I think Morrigan has a better understanding of history, causing her to know that things aren't the way they are suppose to be.

I don't know what happened in the Golden Palace, Old Gods, or Fade. But I think that child is the key to "fixing" everything and solving the mystery of what happened so many years ago.

That's the same impression I got, seems like the ultimate plan. 

[Eonassassin]

Sereiphiel wrote...

Aside from all the storyline possibilities in the sequel or expansion, I would like to know what happens when you (this is a restricted option, only avaliable to the Mage class) take the grimoire for yourself when confronting Flemeth during the side-story quest given by Morrigan is pursued.  The mage PC/MC can choose to keep the grimoire for his/her self.  

Anyone got an answer for this? I remember having this dialogue option but I didn't choose it, can the mage PC do anything with the grimoire? or is that just another way to obtain it without killing flemeth?

[Sereiphiel]

Can the mage PC do anything with the grimoire?

I'm still waiting for the answer to that question



If you tell Flemeth that you want the grimoire for yourself, she will say "you must earn it", then the fight starts..but I never followed through =(

So I don't know if the mage can use Flemeth's grimoire for his/her self ((((

[tausra]

No, its a gift item no matter what. Second play through was a mage and all i could do was give it away.

[Sereiphiel]

tausra wrote...

No, its a gift item no matter what. Second play through was a mage and all i could do was give it away.

Damn, that's unfortunate.  Keeping the grimoire for yourself as a mage would make for an interesting story plot hehe, but it seems the result is the same, give it to Morrigan.
Thanks for the answer.

[ames4u]

Sereiphiel wrote...

I didn't realize this at first, but Morrigan is a Celtic goddess in real life druidism lore. Needless to say, she will definitely play a major part possibly in the next expansion and definitely in the sequel. Assuming the sequel will not include the story of a distant land experiencing something before Flemeth/Morrigan's plan comes into fruition. I'm assuming that Morrigan's future plans will effect the Dragon Age world and not just Ferelden.

I just looked up Morrigan's namesake in Celtic mythos-all I have to say is sweet OGB I hope Bioware take from that mythos!!

There is a hell of a lot things that tie directly into that lore-but what interests me most is this;

The Morrígan is usually interpreted as a "war goddess"; W. M. Hennessey's "The Ancient Irish Goddess of War", written in 1870, was influential in establishing this interpretation. Her role often involves premonitions of a particular warrior's violent death, suggesting a link with the Banshee of later folklore. Her role was to not only be a symbol of imminent death, but to also influence the outcome of war. Most often she did this by appearing as a crow flying overhead and would either inspire fear or courage in the hearts of the warriors. There are also a few rare accounts where she would join in the battle itself as a warrior and show her favoritism in a more direct manner.


She also takes the form of a wolf, eel, cow, old woman and a maiden. It was very interesting to read the information on the celtic legends about her. The Phantom (Great) Queen. Thanks for the heads up!

Modifié par ames4u, 09 juillet 2013 - 10:26 .