137 réponses à ce sujet

[Mylia Stenetch]

CrustyBot wrote...
FWIW, I find that the Old World Blues and Dead Money DLCs for Fallout: New Vegas had much better storytelling than the recent offerings of either company. Whether one actually likes the stories or gameplay of the DLCs is certainly debatable. But the storytelling itself as it conforms to the video game medium and the RPG genre is quite impressive.

I found most of the DLC for Fallout: New Vegas were relly well written and a better storytelling perspective than ME3 and Skyrim. Although gameplay of Dead Money was annoying where I felt they made artifical hard.


Although FWIW, I did enjoy the DLC (sans Roxies DLC) for Borderlands. I found the story light, but humourous and had a good time.

[Chromie]

TheMufflon wrote...

Why am I not surprised that 8/11 posts in this thread are actually about BioWare writing?.

I would assume being on a Bioware forum the comparison would obviously come up.

[Nordicus]

Skelter192 wrote...

I would assume being on a Bioware forum the comparison would obviously come up.

LIES! This is actually Larian Studios' fan forum

Modifié par Nordicus, 04 mai 2012 - 02:36 .

[LPPrince]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Bethesda's priorities are on world design, not story and characters. But we all know that already.

I know that and I've barely touched any Bethesda games.

Its one of those things all gamers should know. RPG gamers at least.

[AllThatJazz]

I think Bethesda does great visual storytelling - the things scattered about Skyrim and Fallout 3 that tell their own tale are just fantastic - and they also do pretty good writing in terms of lore books and things like the Keller family transcripts. I don't like their narrative storytelling, however, I find it loose and insipid. I think it's largely as a result of having a style of game that allows you to go anywhere, kill (almost) anyone and be any kind of character you want, I don't think that lends itself to a tight narrative style. I can get behind that to a certain extent, but I tend to bore of it easily.

I find Bioware's narrative storytelling to be more memorable and engaging than Bethesda but they don't do as well at the little visual details that make a world breathe, imo. Bioware's forte is characters - they are what makes Bio worlds breathe and they do this far, far better than Bethesda. I also think Bio are leagues better at dialogue, and I find their worlds (Dragon Age and Mass Effect universes) more inherently compelling than Tamriel which I find kind of bland. I do prefer the Fallout setting overall, but Bethesda can't be given credit for creating that

Imo Obsidian have both companies beaten for storytelling - at their best (new Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, and for me Alpha Protocol), Obs creates experiences that are very difficult to match for me - but even so, I think Bioware just edges them out for characters (which is really the main reason I love Bioware games).

[chunkyman]

The writing in Skyrim was crap. Besides being boring and simplistic, there is almost no logical motivation to do half the quests. Take the Thieves Guild. I'm supposed to give up my soul for all eternity for..... armor? The Companions and College questlines were even worse.

[Cutlass Jack]

chunkyman wrote...

The writing in Skyrim was crap. Besides being boring and simplistic, there is almost no logical motivation to do half the quests. Take the Thieves Guild. I'm supposed to give up my soul for all eternity for..... armor? The Companions and College questlines were even worse.

Hey now, the first thing I said to myself playing Skyrim was "I'd sell my soul for a pair of friggin pants."

[Addai]

happy_daiz wrote...

I think Bethesda's writing is fantastic - it's just not in-your-face dialogue/story like BioWare's style of storytelling. The lore is interesting, and if you actually take the time to read the books, there are some gems hidden among them.

+1

The storytelling shines especially in the dungeon-related stories and the books.  Quest design was weak in Skyrim, however, at least for the guilds and civil war.

[Seboist]

I beg to differ on the notion that Bioware does characters well. We've seen how they turn the likes of the council into one dimensional caricatures(Turian councilor especially) or how they completely butcher ones like Zaeed in the Paragon charm outcome of his LM.

[Cutlass Jack]

Seboist wrote...

I beg to differ on the notion that Bioware does characters well. We've seen how they turn the likes of the council into one dimensional caricatures(Turian councilor especially) or how they completely butcher ones like Zaeed in the Paragon charm outcome of his LM.

That you care so much about what happens to Zaeed in one possible outcome makes me think they do characters all too well.

[Costin_Razvan]

The lore of the game is well thought out, the guild quest lines have some interesting bits, as does the civil war but in the end they are ****.

And the main story is a piece of failure. Sure there are SOME nice things here and there but those are small gems in a pile of dung.

[Eternal Phoenix]

android654 wrote...

The only thing Bioware did right was make a cast of likeable squad members. The rest is rather bland. I wouldn't say Bethesda's story telling is weak, since they convincingly create worlds and dozens upon dozens of characters with their own stories to fill that world. Their worlds are so expansive and have so much content that you could play for hundreds of hours and have new content to still uncover. Bioware couldn't pull that off if.

Come along now. Oblivion and Skyrim only have 60 hours of content. If you're spending hundreds of hours in TES then it's because you're exploring. Meanwhile Baldur's Gate has a huge open world and a far more interesting story with far more interesting characters than any TES game. Don't both Baldur's Gate games also last for 100+ hours? They did in my experience.

[fightright2]

I think developers are much like set into classes themselves. They either are great at storytelling or character depth, graphics and exploration, or action/gameplay customization, etc.

Throw all of that in and add "innovative" and "experimental" in. There is bound to be a segment of game design that is going to get less focused on than other areas.

I think in order to be outstanding in all of the given areas the game would be limited in the time frame it would take to make it.

Though I do think gamers just really expect most developers to give the concentration in all 'skill sets' of game designing. But again, it would not likely be plausible to accommodate in just 5 years.

In the end, they (every developer) can't please everyone.

[AllThatJazz]

Seboist wrote...

I beg to differ on the notion that Bioware does characters well. We've seen how they turn the likes of the council into one dimensional caricatures(Turian councilor especially) or how they completely butcher ones like Zaeed in the Paragon charm outcome of his LM.

Disagree, the Paragon charm outcome of Zaeed's LM made perfect sense to me - he may not have liked the decision, but he respected that he was outmatched by Shepard, in the end he chose Shepard's friendship over her enmity - a very wise decision from a pragmatic man. He also lived to get his revenge another day. I was disappointed that there was no follow-up in this regard in ME3, but Bio's ability at C&C isn't the discussion here I found Zaeed a very entertaining character. I also thought they did a reasonable job at making the Turian Councillor eat his words (or as much as a proud Turian would) in ME3, it was a neat moment that made him a little more than a caricature imo.  


Also, what Fightright said. And I'm very glad that there are companies that cater for the different styles I like - at least I can get all my gaming fixes, albeit not all in the same game.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 04 mai 2012 - 05:11 .

[Addai]

CDPR beats them both at character, quest design, story AND dialogue. Which proves you can have all of those in one game.

[termokanden]

Now if only I liked TW2's combat system and if only it did not remind me of a person I'd rather forget (can hardly blame CDPR for the last part though).

[Cutlass Jack]

Addai67 wrote...

CDPR beats them both at character, quest design, story AND dialogue. Which proves you can have all of those in one game.

As long as you give up what I consider the most important part: creating your own character.

[termokanden]

Yeah I really, really want to see CDPR make a game with a customizable main character. That would be like pancakes made of 50% success, 50% awesome and 40% titanium.

[AtreiyaN7]

Addai67 wrote...

CDPR beats them both at character, quest design, story AND dialogue. Which proves you can have all of those in one game.

After listening to some of the more ridiculous lines from Geralt in vids of TW1's gameplay (and based on my actually playing the beginning of the game before I tossed it into my not-going-to-play-this pile), I found it to be extremely unappealing in terms of dialogue, writing, story and character - enough so that I couldn't actually manage to care enough to want to get out of the castle.

The worst offender to me was this one video I watched of a banquet/party where Geralt was discussing "politics" with some woman and they tossed around cringe-inducing double entendres. If it was supposed to be James Bond-level cool, it failed miserably at that.

[slimgrin]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

CDPR beats them both at character, quest design, story AND dialogue. Which proves you can have all of those in one game.

After listening to some of the more ridiculous lines from Geralt in vids of TW1's gameplay (and based on my actually playing the beginning of the game before I tossed it into my not-going-to-play-this pile), I found it to be extremely unappealing in terms of dialogue, writing, story and character - enough so that I couldn't actually manage to care enough to want to get out of the castle.

The worst offender to me was this one video I watched of a banquet/party where Geralt was discussing "politics" with some woman and they tossed around cringe-inducing double entendres. If it was supposed to be James Bond-level cool, it failed miserably at that.

The writers at CDPR don't tiptoe around mature material, and other parts are meant to be in your face or bawdy. Certainly not for everyone, so a good thing we have more PG rated content by Bioware and Bethesda.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 mai 2012 - 07:11 .

[Addai]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

CDPR beats them both at character, quest design, story AND dialogue. Which proves you can have all of those in one game.

As long as you give up what I consider the most important part: creating your own character.

And that's probably why I'll still spend more hours playing Skyrim, but not by much.

@ Atreiya:  TW2's dialogue is smarter and more polished (no Polish joke intended), possibly due to better translation.  But ultimately you do have to like a certain style of dark and bawdy humor.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[Pedrak]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

And mass Effect, Origins, Kotor..etc. They don't have great writing.

Yes. I don't know why people persist in telling themselves this.

Because they shouldn't be compared to Hemingway, but to other writing in videogames. Which is mostly bland (ex. Bethesda, who obviously cares more about an interesting game world, or Piranha Bytes) or even awful ****. How many games with really great writing are there, apart for Torment, Bloodlines, some of Obsidian's RPGs and maybe a couple of others?

Bio's games have good writing for the standard of videogames. They're not Tolstoy, nor they are meant to be.

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 mai 2012 - 07:33 .