137 réponses à ce sujet

[Dannybare]

In Bethesda's defense, the books that are scattered around Skyrim are quite well written, it seems that they put a load of effort into writing those and then remembered they still have to do the main quest and all the guilds. Also, I though Parthunaaxs dialogue was quite well written.

[Aeowyn]

Frankly, Bethesda did something better than BW could ever have done, and that was grey writing. The Civil War quest alone beats anything BW has done in the ME - series because it didn't have any of those obviously eeeeeevul characters or factions that they incorrectly labeled as terrorists. Yeah, BioWare really needs to read up on what a terrorist/terrorist organisation is, because pre-ME3, Cerberus were not terrorists.

[Costin_Razvan]

Bioware kinda did that with DA:O, but even so the Civil War storyline was better in terms of the characters as a whole ( I  think Loghain was better then any Skyrim character though ). You didn't have someone like Howe.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 mai 2012 - 10:39 .

[spirosz]

slimgrin wrote...

I'll grant you the bad delivery if you had English VO's enabled, but nothing else. I won't defend CDPR anymore in this thread as I've said a dozen times in others they simply are not trying to write for a broad ( younger) audience. To them, at least in TW1, Geralt had the option to be a chronic womanizer. They tossed it out in TW2. 

One of my main complaints about the first Witcher is what I bolded.  If that was done well, I wouldn't of minded, but to me it - all those scenes were written poorly.  Even the first scene with Triss, she almost pratically died and then they want to have a quicky?  

Anyway, Bethesda never had strong story telling, neither does Bioware.  Bethesda always worked well when they developed their rich, expansive worlds that the player could dive into - usually, their main quests would last only 5-10 hours depending on the player, but it was their worlds that kept the player invested in those mass amount of hours. Bioware on the other hand, was strong with writing and developing their characters in games, at least, that's what brought me to love all their games, not the stories themselves, which are pretty generic.  

[Aeowyn]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Bioware kinda did that with DA:O, but even so the Civil War storyline was better in terms of the characters as a whole ( I  think Loghain was better then any Skyrim character though ). You didn't have someone like Howe.

Ulfric Stormcloak > Loghain. And since the grey in DA:O was more or less an accident I'm really not giving them full credit for that.

[Seboist]

Aeowyn wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Bioware kinda did that with DA:O, but even so the Civil War storyline was better in terms of the characters as a whole ( I  think Loghain was better then any Skyrim character though ). You didn't have someone like Howe.

Ulfric Stormcloak > Loghain. And since the grey in DA:O was more or less an accident I'm really not giving them full credit for that.

Like how the whole Virmire situation between Ashley and Kaidan is a good lesson on why fraternization and mixed gender combat units are a bad idea? Great example of unintentional brilliance on BW's part there.

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

Seboist wrote...

Like how the whole Virmire situation between Ashley and Kaidan is a good lesson on why fraternization and mixed gender combat units are a bad idea? Great example of unintentional brilliance on BW's part there.

HAHA YEAH. AT FIRST I SAW THAT AND THOUGHT THEY WERE ACTUALLY BEING KIND OF CLEVER AND DECONSTRUCTING THEIR OWN "ROMANCES." THEN THEY PROCEEDED TO MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR OVER THE NEXT TWO GAMES THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONAL.

[Costin_Razvan]

Aeowyn wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Bioware kinda did that with DA:O, but even so the Civil War storyline was better in terms of the characters as a whole ( I  think Loghain was better then any Skyrim character though ). You didn't have someone like Howe.

Ulfric Stormcloak > Loghain. And since the grey in DA:O was more or less an accident I'm really not giving them full credit for that.

I would like to hear why Ulfric is better.

True it was an accident. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 mai 2012 - 11:12 .

[Dean_the_Young]

It's hard to compare the storytelling's when two entirely different types of stories are being told in two entirely different ways.

Bethesda doesn't do narrative storytelling. They've never claimed or tried to, and so they cant' be faulted for not spoon-feeding a plotline like the Reapers war or some other such thing.

The story bethesda tells is about a world as a whole. A setting, rather than the individuals. The whole, rather than the part. And it does this by player agency: it's up to the characters to explore and find the facts and the people and the motivations and the history. It's up to you, in whatever way you do.


It's different in style, sure, but it's not a weakness.

[Fishy]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Bethesda doesn't do narrative storytelling.

Not at the magnitude of BioWare but they do have a narrative. But let's be honest. Video game in general have bad narration. If you want that read a book.

Modifié par Suprez30, 04 mai 2012 - 11:49 .

[fixit6]

Give me an expansive sand box world full of life and options over typical hold your hand, funnel you through a pre-destined/no real choice carnival ride any day of the week. Sick of devs telling us what we should like and how we should play. This is why I think Skyrim is way more interesting than ME3; I played through ME3 once and will never do it again. Over 500 hours /played in Skyrim though. Suppose this is just an opinion, eh?

p.s. I want a good story, I watch a movie or read a book.

Modifié par fixit6, 04 mai 2012 - 11:51 .

[LTD]

I find it strange people have chosen to complain of Bethesda's STORYTELLING, out of all things. Frankly I haven't played enough of their games to be able to judge writing or quality of story as a whole but I do feel way plotline(s) and lore are presented to player (=storytelling) is excellent, at least in Skyrim.

In Skyrim, moments where player is stuck staring a talking head never seem to last all that long. As a bonus, these scenes use same engine rest of the game does. Generally speaking it often feels like Skyrim likes to SHOW things, rather than explain or tell things. Those drawn to the lore can dive deeper by reading a ton of in-game literature. It's a very functional combination I think. It feels like you are working through a storyline of a game, rather than a virtual novel.

Modifié par LTD, 04 mai 2012 - 11:57 .

[HoonDing]

Aeowyn wrote...

Frankly, Bethesda did something better than BW could ever have done, and that was grey writing. The Civil War quest alone beats anything BW has done in the ME - series because it didn't have any of those obviously eeeeeevul characters or factions that they incorrectly labeled as terrorists. Yeah, BioWare really needs to read up on what a terrorist/terrorist organisation is, because pre-ME3, Cerberus were not terrorists.

Daggerfall main quest beats anything CDPR has done regarding political intrigue and factions. It even beats it in C&C, since every single action in Daggerfall effects the main character's standing with the numerous factions in the game, while in Witcher 2 all C&C is reduced to one binary choice.

[Jestina]

LTD wrote...
I find it strange people have chosen to complain of Bethesda's STORYTELLING, out of all things.

Yeah, really. For me it was the awful game mechanics...which is why I couldn't get into Skyrim.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

I always wondered why their storytelling is so crappy. If they outsourced their writing to a company like Obsidian, I think the bugs and bad combat system can be overlooked. Either that or they should hire some of the best writers like Chris Avellone. As for the whole argument that they focus on game world; therefore, they should be given a free pass or something, look at how Obsidian handled Fallout: New Vegas. Hell, look at big game worlds like Planescape: Torment or Fallout: 2 as examples of large areas not crippling storytelling.

[Megaton_Hope]

I don't mind Bethesda's storytelling.

What I mind about Bethesda is that every time I pick up the wrong spoon, everybody in town will try to kill me for no reason.

[Megaton_Hope]

Also, in reference to the above, that the landscape is positively littered with such objects for me to accidentally pick up.

[LPPrince]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Also, in reference to the above, that the landscape is positively littered with such objects for me to accidentally pick up.

The key is to not move afterward.

Maybe they won't see you. /gigglegigglesnort

[Costin_Razvan]

HoonDing wrote...
Daggerfall main quest beats anything CDPR has done regarding political intrigue and factions. It even beats it in C&C, since every single action in Daggerfall effects the main character's standing with the numerous factions in the game, while in Witcher 2 all C&C is reduced to one binary choice.

That's fairly interesting.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Bethesda's lack of roleplaying in Oblivion and Skyrim is disappointing to me, but they are world building on a scale that Dragon Age games can't compete with when it comes to crafting, magic and unique character leveling. They do a pretty good job with making games that play well and have interesting premises. Bioware has had a game or two that lacked in the story department as well (NWN comes to mind rather quickly) but held up in gameplay and depth as far as mechanics go.

It's a shame that the rare gem such as Morrowind or Baldur's Gate don't come about more often with a balance of story and gameplay depth. Skyrim is pretty close, but thank goodness for the Creation Kit, at least player modders can fix a few things. DA 2 was such a train wreck for me because it was rushed, simplified in story and especially gameplay and even lacked a game editor, completely extinguishing the creative community aspect of DA:O or NWN, leaving only the diehard studio fans to sing it's praises.

[Sajji]

If you tell too much story, it ruins roleplaying opportunity.

I get to use my imagination a little. Image that.

Right now I'm an Argonian arch-mage, wielding magicka and pure raw power in all of magicka that I am a true Sourcerer in rule of Skyrim. I will begin my onslaught soon. Ulfric is my tool I allot power to, but he is but a puppet.

None can withstand me. The