376 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparse]

RMP _ wrote...
The catalyst could have just left Shepard to die, bleeding out and collapsed in front of the control panel. Eventually, without the crucible doing anything, the fleet and other forces would dwindle away and the reapers win anyways.

Which kind of makes you wonder why the Catalyst did anything. The Reapers had not be stopped, the cycle had not been broken, he did not have an organic in front of him proving that his solution had failed. Why do anything??

[LoganofET]

Here's how I see it. Ingoring every other point against it, all of whitch have been argued about, heres one I frimly belive in. The Reapers are sentietent beings. Sovely and Harbinger proved that they have indepentant thought. To take away said thought and force them to think what you think (That the cycle is flawed) is a fate worse than death, and an action that should never be taken against anything, even genosideal Machines of death.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

M25105 wrote...

Here is a gun

https://encrypted-tb...VXJHeXM6bjh0Mwk

Put it against your temple and pull the trigger. Do that and you'll be able to control all of mankind!

What? You don't trust me? Why would I lie to you?


That's basically what Casper is saying to you.

So you trust what he says about whether you'll live or die, but you don't trust what he says the result will be? 

[King of the Evil Crabs]

RMP _ wrote...

King of the Evil Crabs wrote...


I don't trust the catalyst.

I don't believe Shepard is truely capable of controlling the reapers.

The catalyst could have just left Shepard to die, bleeding out and collapsed in front of the control panel. Eventually, without the crucible doing anything, the fleet and other forces would dwindle away and the reapers win anyways. How is Shepard being indoctrinated by trying control option better for the catalyst?

I don't think Shepard would have bled out if left at the control panel, he certainly seemed to have enough energy once he was ascended by the magic lift. He can even survive the Destroy ending (we assume)

The catalyst wanted change, but we don't really know the catalysts ulterior motive.

Modifié par King of the Evil Crabs, 04 mai 2012 - 05:41 .

[U7tra]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Here is a gun

https://encrypted-tb...VXJHeXM6bjh0Mwk

Put it against your temple and pull the trigger. Do that and you'll be able to control all of mankind!

What? You don't trust me? Why would I lie to you?


That's basically what Casper is saying to you.

So you trust what he says about whether you'll live or die, but you don't trust what he says the result will be? 

I'm not sure it's "trusting what he says about whether I'll live or die," to assume that I do, in fact, die when I grab onto a couple of electrical things, turn into charcoal and blow up.

[rachellouise]

And people don't trust what he says about destroy destroying the geth/EDI, don't trust that you can control the reapers, but they /do/ trust the catalyst when he says the reapers are 100% destroyed. If you're going to doubt him, why not doubt everything?

[rachellouise]

Until the crucible was completed, there was no viable way of controlling the reapers. The way TIM was taking would have never worked.

[Navasha]

Here's another point.... based on the whole... synthetics rebel against their creators.

The whole reason syntheics rebel is because the creator eventually tries to destroy them. The reapers never rebel against the catalyst because their goals are always in alignment.

For those that believe you can simply seize control of the reapers and then order them into the sun... Guess what... your goals are no longer in alignment with the reapers. The reapers rebel against you, the new catalyst.

You could argue that picking control places Shepard in an eternal prison where she is forced to watch the cycles unfold time and time again throughout eternity. Sure, she can "control" them as long as she never tries to give them an order that conflicts with their very nature.

[U7tra]

rachellouise wrote...

And people don't trust what he says about destroy destroying the geth/EDI, don't trust that you can control the reapers, but they /do/ trust the catalyst when he says the reapers are 100% destroyed. If you're going to doubt him, why not doubt everything?

I do. But I see Shepared getting crisped after he grabs the... stuff... during Control, and I see Reapers falling down dead after I pick Destroy.

(Disclaimer: I'm actually pretty hot on IT, so I kinda don't subscribe to any of it. But if you're taking it literally, there are some parts of what the Catalyst says that are clearly true because you see them in effect afterwards, and some parts that are clearly untrue because we've disproved them throughout the game(s).)

[Vox Draco]

rachellouise wrote...

And people don't trust what he says about destroy destroying the geth/EDI, don't trust that you can control the reapers, but they /do/ trust the catalyst when he says the reapers are 100% destroyed. If you're going to doubt him, why not doubt everything?

Well..I personally believe the results Casper is telling us about will be true...

All race will become half-synthetics in gree...but I do not believe this will turn out good, and Casper makes no point to change my mind...

Shepard will control the reapers in blue...but I also don't believe it will turn out good, because again Casper's lines of dialogue show nothing of this, the "good" effects are all made up in teh players head if they are optimistic..

I also do believe red will destroy the Reapers..and kill EDI and the Geth. I have to believe this if I believe the other results. That's basically it. Sheaprd chooses assured Genocide of the GEth and reapers, gritting her teeth doing so, but at least the Reapers are gone for good...which you CANNOT be sure about the other choices. And this makes me feel...uneasy...

Oh...and of course...the entire ending still sucks and ME3 would be better off with something else...but that's wishful thinking on my behalf now

[Xellith]

RMP _ wrote...

It seems most people think the 'right' choice to make is destroy. After watching all three, it looks like control is the best one to me.
If we assume everything is actually happening as we see it (no indoctrination test inside a dream) and break it down point by point some of the arguments I've seen.

Thats the thing. Indoctrination works in a way so that you would believe that anything but destroy is the correct option.  You are given the illusion of choice.  Basically if indoctrination theory holds true - those who believe that synthesis or control are correct are in reality indoctrinated.  This is the big thing here.

If indoctrination theory isnt true then destroying the reapers would still be the correct option to pick.  If you walked into Hitlers bunker and he told you that the only way to save the world was to kill all the jews - would you happily say to him "what do I need to do?" and then willingly accept one of his options?  Or would you say "fk you" and start shooting to kill them?

Control and Synthesis are not the correct options under any circumstance.  I wouldnt let Hitler live and I certainly wouldnt let the Reapers live.

[-Area51-Silent]

"Absolute Power Corrups Absolutely"

I am pretty sure this has been proven through most of human history. Having the power and not using it to shape the universe in your desired image is nearly impossible. Emperors, Kings etc..they all show that given absolute power, they will do whatever they want, and remain (relatively) unchallenged, whether they were good people or not to start.

Shepard understands that, and explains that to TIM. If Shepard is a full paragon, I don't think he'd be a hypocrit also.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

According to the Prothean VI, the reapers were completing their harvest of humanity. This means they had just about enough humans already collected to make a reaper capital ship. What was missing? The main consciousness, and that was always planned to be Shepard.

See Harbinger has been doing this for so long that he'd gotten tired of it. Harby controls the reapers. He wanted retirement. So he cut a deal with Starbrat (aka Mac Walters) in the Citadel underworkings that if he could find a suitable replacement, he could go out to pasture, or fishing or whatever retired reapers do.

So he found Shepard. Now you're talking to the overboss on the Citadel, and he's trying to help out Harbinger. He had a candidate in TIM, but TIM got too greedy and wanted the power for himself so they indoctrinated TIM. Shepard on the other hand, they didn't want to indoctrinate. The need a clear mind to do this, and a dumb ****. Shepard fits the bill perfectly.

But Starbrat came up with another solution which Harbinger thought would be acceptable as well. Synthesis. That way Harby could still retire.

Now if Shepard knew this up front, she'd run, not walk, or limp drag to destroy, but you destroy the mass relays and leave your entire sword fleet stranded without enough food or supplies to last a long standard FTL journey home without the Donner Party solution for the Quarians and Turians. The Asari and Salarians? who knows. Earth is decimated and polluted right now.

But to discourage this he will destroy the mass relays on all but control (if you have a very high EMS). If you have a moderate EMS and got the control ending he will destroy the mass relays anyway.

So you're steered toward Control if you have high EMS. Starbrat only says releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays on Synthesis AND Destroy, but NOT on Control. So the animation is wrong with the high EMS control ending. I'm guessing this will be fixed in the EC.

This leads me to believe the High EMS/Control ending is the BioWare Canon ending for ME3.

So in about 50,000 yrs or so: "Assuming direct control of this form." "We are the Shepard of your ascension through your destruction."

Go to 22:10 in this video for the high EMS Control Ending wording.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 04 mai 2012 - 06:06 .

[kalasaurus]

RMP _ wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Because somehow Shepard controls the Reapers yet is dead. And considering how it's mentioned that the Reapers are hyper intelligent a single human being controlling them seems unlikely.

I assume your body dies but your consciousness continues to  exist on a different level, maybe inside the citadel or throughout the reapers...

Is Shepard still Shepard after "losing everything she has" too?  Does that include ethics and morals?  Seems kind of shady imo, but that goes for everything that comes out of Starbrat's mouth.

[xsdob]

Because fans are angry and because not a lot of people picked it they think it's automatically bad.

[rachellouise]

sorry, should have said some people. ^-^, I know not everyone uses "the reapers are dead", after just saying that I can't trust the catalyst

[rachellouise]

I don't know, the "everything you are" stuff is for synthesis. Control could just be shepard losing their organic body, having their mind 'uploaded' .

Modifié par rachellouise, 04 mai 2012 - 06:14 .

[alienatedflea]

given the people in these forums...you would think that right behind red, kill the reapers and innocent synthetics, that blue would be the second most favorable due to the delusional masses think synthesis actually huskifies everyone...which is just speculation at best.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

U7tra wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Here is a gun

https://encrypted-tb...VXJHeXM6bjh0Mwk

Put it against your temple and pull the trigger. Do that and you'll be able to control all of mankind!

What? You don't trust me? Why would I lie to you?


That's basically what Casper is saying to you.

So you trust what he says about whether you'll live or die, but you don't trust what he says the result will be? 

I'm not sure it's "trusting what he says about whether I'll live or die," to assume that I do, in fact, die when I grab onto a couple of electrical things, turn into charcoal and blow up.

Well, you're right, it doesn't seem like such a good choice once you see the results, LOL.  Which is probably why more people don't talk about it as a viable choice.  I guess I'm just thinking about it in terms of what if you didn't know the result?  I think it becomes a somewhat better option in that case.  Still don't think I'd pick it though.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So in the end, with control, Shepard becomes the head boss reaper, ends this cycle, and allows the remaining people to live, and if Shepard had high EMS the mass relays remained active (unlike the animations showed which are in conflict with Starbrat's dialog), and everyone gets to go home via normal travel means.

The Citadel returns to the Widow cluster, and the reapers open the the Citadel, fire up the relay and return to dark space where they construct the exterior for the human reaper that we never saw -- it was finished and somewhere in the Citadel.

Oh, and one last thing.... the base of the Citadel closes, too, but leaves just enough opening for a beam. That was in one of the animations that either Hackett showed or that the Prothean VI showed.

[Numara]

The only thing i see clear its the child wants you to pick green, no blue and no destruccion, ( or at last listening the way he presents each choices is what i understand) And for green he tells you he needs Shepard, actually his/her DNA, thats what i guess the kid "calls the elevator", because the child really think is capable of lead Shep to the perfect utopia green ending ( but smth bothers me its said with low EMS no green option and kid asking Shep WHY are you here? is that meaning kid thinks Shep its no worthy of his final solution if he/she is no able to get a Great Military force? or this mean kid knows with low EMS blue=failure so cycle continues RED: all wipe out so he just need to wait for create more reapers? or wut? kinda confusing here)), and about controll and destroy ... speculations, because we dont really know what happens next, we just see( with good EMS) blue : Reapers flying away red: Reapers dying but we dont know what will happen after that.... soo until EC comes out... speculations everywhere !!!

[wright1978]

I don't trust the starbrat, looks like a trap, smells like a trap, most probably is a trap.

I don't have arrogance to believe that Shep can control reapers. There's the whole Morinth sex thing to show what happens when Shep has the arrogance to think he is somehow indestructible.

I don't trust that even if Shep does take control of reapers he/she will still be the same person, have the same motivations.

[Peranor]

Control is bad. And so is destroy and synthesis. There is no "good" ending. Only different shades of hell.

[StElmo]

Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Simple. Control is abhorrent for this reason alone. Although there are other reasons.

[xsdob]

StElmo wrote...

Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Simple. Control is abhorrent for this reason alone. Although there are other reasons.

Power is neutral and it is the weilder who is corrupt. Power allows for it's weilder to remove the mask that he wears to gain other peoples approval and acceptance.

My paragon shepard wore no such mask, he can handle power.

Modifié par xsdob, 04 mai 2012 - 06:27 .