376 réponses à ce sujet

[Hadeedak]

Well, I chose to sacrifice my Shepard rather than an entire species, and yes, gamble on the results. And that's why I went with Control. In Destroy, you sacrifice synthetics to beat the reapers. In Control, you sacrifice Shepard, and it's a bit more chancy.

[Haargel]

Caught something interesting, I only played ME3 once, so I reloaded the last part.

After the destroy option the Catalyst says : "Or, do you THINK you can control us?"
Not just that you can control us, but do you THINK you can.

Curious. Makes me thinking at least

[rachellouise]

Haargel wrote...

Caught something interesting, I only played ME3 once, so I reloaded the last part.

After the destroy option the Catalyst says : "Or, do you THINK you can control us?"
Not just that you can control us, but do you THINK you can.

Curious. Makes me thinking at least

Yep, my shepard believes in herself. She's not going to let that kid make her start doubting now. He should have caught her after one of her dreams or something; might have had a slightly bigger chance.

Modifié par rachellouise, 04 mai 2012 - 09:44 .

[Haargel]

Well, I just did what I intended to do from game one, destroy them.

IMO Control is a bad choice, you cannot control the reapers.

[Vox Draco]

Haargel wrote...

Caught something interesting, I only played ME3 once, so I reloaded the last part.

After the destroy option the Catalyst says : "Or, do you THINK you can control us?"
Not just that you can control us, but do you THINK you can.

Curious. Makes me thinking at least

The line "You will lose everything you have" makes me far more uncertain about how control will turn out for real. It is so open for interpretation, and has such a negative ring to it...no...

Putting the entire galaxy at risk out of pride and fear of making tough decisions? (though I admit, killing yourself IS also a tough decision, but at least you don't have to live with this!...ahem...)

No...I'll stick with destroy. It is the cruel, yet sensible thing to do, and even crueler if you are a paragon shep and even survive it. then your Shep has to live with the guilt of sacrificing the Geth for the freedom of the galaxy. But I think Legion will forgive her...Hey...if "controllers" can base their decisions on wishful thinking, I can too!

Also it is what Anderson would have done in my place, andevery other character in the series adviced me to do. I cannot dissapoint them! Control and synthesis however...That was too much a Saren/TIm-thing throughout the series..I won't fall for their way of thinking just before the finish-line...

[Xellith]

rachellouise wrote...

Organics will advance enough to build synthetics, which will wipe
everything out. That  is either right, or wrong. Saving the reapers may
be the only chance of survival for organics.

rachellouise wrote...

I see reapers as synthetics, made using organics. Which means with my shepard, the number of reapers would never go up. She wouldn't sacrifice them, to make more

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely.  You just said that the reapers are synthetics.  Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

[Arivael]

The Cataylst itself tells you that "you will lose everything you have" by taking control of the Reapers, that right there is reason enought to rule the choice out as for all you know that includes your decision to stop the cycle. Control may look like the best option on the surface but it is the one that is going to come back and bite you in the end. Be it in 1, 100, 1000, 10,000 years time it will come back to bite you.

[Mass effect 2 forever]

Vox Draco wrote...

Because it is based on the mere assumption you will control the reapers in a "good" way...

All the Kid says is "They will obey you" but also "you will die, and lose everything you have"...

Now if shepard would be allowed to ask some question about what that means...maybe we could tell for sure s/he will be able to use the reapers as a "freedom force" or fly them into the sun, as so many think it would surely turn out..

But based on the information and the one presenting it to us: Shepard kills her/himself...and supposedly upload his/her mind or soul or whatever (it is never made claer) into a machine of Reaper-Making. Reapers, you know, that are quite prominet for things like...indoctrinating people to believe what they believe?

But if you believe that your Shepard is strong enough to control thousands of ancient minds, including their catalyst-master, or if you are willing to simply trust the catalyst...go on, by all means! Try to control the Reapers that are so fond of controlling others.

Well, that doesn't make any sense. You actually see the reapers get hit by the blue beam and take off. You see the whole fleet obey you. Shephard doesn't have the option of turning their weapons. Also, reaper indoctrination works by nanites n subsonic signals that affect the human mind. ie the physical form of a mind. Once Shephard is in control they can't touch him. Its also implied that the catalyst lives within all reapers and the citadel. Once shephard replaces its hive mind, effectively he becomes the reapers.

Personally I think control is the best ending since you leave free will alone and it feels most like an actual self-sacrifice. Renegade was just WTF since the crucible randomly explodes doing what it was supposed to do n you walk into the blast so its not clear shep knew would happen.

[rachellouise]

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Organics will advance enough to build synthetics, which will wipe
everything out. That  is either right, or wrong. Saving the reapers may
be the only chance of survival for organics.

rachellouise wrote...

I see reapers as synthetics, made using organics. Which means with my shepard, the number of reapers would never go up. She wouldn't sacrifice them, to make more

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely.  You just said that the reapers are synthetics.  Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

The reapers are not the ones who are trying to destroy all organics, under the catalyst they were preventing organics from getting too advanced/capable of building them

[Allan Schumacher]

I think it's perfectly valid to feel that the Control ending is the best choice. I briefly considered it myself.

I did have reservations about whether or not the Catalyst was perfect in his predictions though, and was concerned about what and how it might be to control the Reapers after dying. Due to some constraints like that, I was concerned it wasn't a permanent solution and that Shepard may be compromised.

In the end I chose destroy because I wanted to give life a chance to prove the Catalyst wrong without fear of Reaper interference, and the only way to do that was to remove the Reapers from the equation.


This is one thing I like about not providing a full sense of closure after making the choices though. We can see that the choice does result in the Reapers leaving, but with a full finale indicating that this works out ideally for everyone, then it ends up coming across as "this is the good ending" and then people use this meta knowledge to reinforce that the other choices aren't as optimal.

If we definitively see Shepard failing to maintain control, then those that picked it realize that they are wrong and that doesn't seem to be the intent of the endings.


(Note, I have less issue with the fact that an ending may be ostensibly "bad" for the main player. Vampire: Bloodlines has a great example of this actually. Though it's not unexpected that choosing to go down that path ends poorly for your character).

[Mass effect 2 forever]

Arivael wrote...

The Cataylst itself tells you that "you will lose everything you have" by taking control of the Reapers, that right there is reason enought to rule the choice out as for all you know that includes your decision to stop the cycle. Control may look like the best option on the surface but it is the one that is going to come back and bite you in the end. Be it in 1, 100, 1000, 10,000 years time it will come back to bite you.

He means losing your body, along with the fact that Shephard becomes something incomprehensibly different than he was before. A normal person going to a machine hive mind super AI is huge difference. But it clearly does not change shephards morals or choices or his 'soul' since you see the machines go blue n leave Earth. Whether that means Shep could communicate once hes in the thing is debatable n maybe the extended cut might let you do that, you appear in starchild ghost form

[Allan Schumacher]

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely. You just said that the reapers are synthetics. Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

You could argue that the Reapers are effectively killing all organics (leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy). They just aren't killing them all right at this instant. Only once they evolve to something that they deem "risky."

[Xellith]

rachellouise wrote...

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Organics will advance enough to build synthetics, which will wipe
everything out. That  is either right, or wrong. Saving the reapers may
be the only chance of survival for organics.

rachellouise wrote...

I see reapers as synthetics, made using organics. Which means with my shepard, the number of reapers would never go up. She wouldn't sacrifice them, to make more

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely.  You just said that the reapers are synthetics.  Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

The reapers are not the ones who are trying to destroy all organics, under the catalyst they were preventing organics from getting too advanced/capable of building them

The catalyst said that ultimately all synthetics will want to wipe out organics completely.  So his statement about synthetics ultimately wiping out all organic life has been proven wrong for the last few billion years. 

Machines surpassed organics long ago - even Javik said this.  You are basically wanting an advanced AI synthetic to stop organics from making lesser synthetics in case they become advanced synthetics?

Your logic on this matter is flawed.

Modifié par Xellith, 04 mai 2012 - 10:12 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
(Note, I have less issue with the fact that an ending may be ostensibly
"bad" for the main player. Vampire: Bloodlines has a great example of
this actually. Though it's not unexpected that choosing to go down that
path ends poorly for your character).

I do not mind having a bad ending or consequence but they should be the result of poor preformance in the case of choices at the end of a game.

What I dislike is things like in Dragon age 2 where siding with the mages is revealed to be stupid as the circle is shown to be corrupt and unredeemable from top to bottom.

[tonnactus]

The child even smile when shepard choose this option.This means shepard was a fool to believe that one puny human brain could control the reapers.(each a "nation" of harvested races)

Choosing the control ending is as smart as sleeping with Morinth.

Modifié par tonnactus, 04 mai 2012 - 10:13 .

[rachellouise]

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Organics will advance enough to build synthetics, which will wipe
everything out. That  is either right, or wrong. Saving the reapers may
be the only chance of survival for organics.

rachellouise wrote...

I see reapers as synthetics, made using organics. Which means with my shepard, the number of reapers would never go up. She wouldn't sacrifice them, to make more

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely.  You just said that the reapers are synthetics.  Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

The reapers are not the ones who are trying to destroy all organics, under the catalyst they were preventing organics from getting too advanced/capable of building them

The catalyst said that ultimately all synthetics will want to wipe out organics completely.  So his statement about synthetics ultimately wiping out all organic life has been proven wrong for the last few billion years. 

Machines surpassed organics long ago - even Javik said this.  You are basically wanting an advanced AI synthetic to stop organics from making lesser synthetics in case they become advanced organics?

Your logic on this matter is flawed.

My logic is not flawed. all this time they have been slowing the advancement of organics. However the organics have advanced sufficiently despite this, which is why the catalyst says his solution will no longer work.

[Mass effect 2 forever]

tonnactus wrote...

The child even smile when shepard choose this option.This means shepard was a fool to believe that one puny human brain could control the reapers.(each a "nation" of harvested races)

Are you being sarcastic or is everyone unable to accept the fact that you SEE Shephard take control of them. If anything the starchild smile means one of two things.

1-You and the starchild become one thus it gains emotion and Shephard expresses happiness that he has ended the conflict. How often do you get to watch yourself get sacrificed for the good of all life?

2-The starchild, like all reapers, gains a shard of shephards personality as they are controlled consequently it embraces Shephards point of view about free choice and smiles as it FINALLY recognises your point of view n admires you. Which is the first positive emotion ever shown by a reaper creation.

[Vox Draco]

Mass effect 2 forever wrote...

Well, that doesn't make any sense. You actually see the reapers get hit by the blue beam and take off. You see the whole fleet obey you. Shephard doesn't have the option of turning their weapons. Also, reaper indoctrination works by nanites n subsonic signals that affect the human mind. ie the physical form of a mind. Once Shephard is in control they can't touch him. Its also implied that the catalyst lives within all reapers and the citadel. Once shephard replaces its hive mind, effectively he becomes the reapers.

Personally I think control is the best ending since you leave free will alone and it feels most like an actual self-sacrifice. Renegade was just WTF since the crucible randomly explodes doing what it was supposed to do n you walk into the blast so its not clear shep knew would happen.

Well..first of all: How can your Shepard base his/her decision on an ending-sequence he/she never has seen? And whre exactly are they flying anyway? Into the next sun? I sure hope so 

And even when you take this knowledge in consideration (which not makes sense when your Shepard stands up there wondering what is the right thing to do): you say it yourself: Shepard becomes the Reapers? Shepard sacrifices her life for the idea supported by the likes of TIM, by the information received by a mass-murdering AI and based upon wishful thinking it will turn out all good. If this is paragon...well...okay...

Again: Shepard becomes the Reapers? This..does really sound like a good thing to you? I don't want to sound offensive, and apologize in before but: Sometimes I think Shepard REALLY deserves better fans...I needed to write this, as it really makes me sad sometimes to read how easy it is for so many to just kill Shepard off for, as I see it, a big questionmark...

But as the endings are all made for "speculation" there will hardly be the point where we can convince each other of our interpretations. I don't think I will ever understand the way of thinking that leads people to choose control or synthesis, but it is silly to think one of the viewpoints will every achieve "victory" over the other. One of the reason that Bioware will put much more effort into "Closure" than Clarification" concerning the EC

[Mass effect 2 forever]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely. You just said that the reapers are synthetics. Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

You could argue that the Reapers are effectively killing all organics (leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy). They just aren't killing them all right at this instant. Only once they evolve to something that they deem "risky."

Yeah it reminded me a lot of the I. Robot AI's thinking. Brutal spartan logic that has no place for free will n choice so can't even comprehend something like the Geth/Quarian peace or EDI. Just aren't built that way.

[Xellith]

rachellouise wrote...

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Organics will advance enough to build synthetics, which will wipe
everything out. That  is either right, or wrong. Saving the reapers may
be the only chance of survival for organics.

rachellouise wrote...

I see reapers as synthetics, made using organics. Which means with my shepard, the number of reapers would never go up. She wouldn't sacrifice them, to make more

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely.  You just said that the reapers are synthetics.  Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

The reapers are not the ones who are trying to destroy all organics, under the catalyst they were preventing organics from getting too advanced/capable of building them

The catalyst said that ultimately all synthetics will want to wipe out organics completely.  So his statement about synthetics ultimately wiping out all organic life has been proven wrong for the last few billion years. 

Machines surpassed organics long ago - even Javik said this.  You are basically wanting an advanced AI synthetic to stop organics from making lesser synthetics in case they become advanced organics?

Your logic on this matter is flawed.

My logic is not flawed. all this time they have been slowing the advancement of organics. However the organics have advanced sufficiently despite this, which is why the catalyst says his solution will no longer work.

Listen to yourself.  The catalyst said that eventually an advanced synthetic will want to wipe out all organic life completely. 

The reapers ARE synthetics.  Why have they not wiped out all organic life completely?  I thought that synthetics were destined to wipe out all organic life completely?  The reapers ARE synthetics right?  And they are the most advanced race to have ever existed that we are aware of.  Billions of years.  Maybe hundreds of thousands of reaps.  Trillions upon trillions of lives lost over the course of years.

Why arnt you trying to destroy the reapers?  Arnt they going to wipe out all organic life eventually?  Isnt that what synthetics do?  You are arguing that the reapers are slowing the advancement of organics so they dont make a race that will become like the reapers that will kill everyone because eventually all synthetics WILL kill organic life completely.

You dont see the problem with this line of thinking?

I'll simplify it.  You want the reapers to stop organics making a race that over billions of years will become the reapers.

[Skull Bearer]

I made a poll concerning what ending people chose here. Apparently Control is less popular than any of the other options, including the 'do nothing until you get the Critical Mission Failure screen' option.

[rachellouise]

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Xellith wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Organics will advance enough to build synthetics, which will wipe
everything out. That  is either right, or wrong. Saving the reapers may
be the only chance of survival for organics.

rachellouise wrote...

I see reapers as synthetics, made using organics. Which means with my shepard, the number of reapers would never go up. She wouldn't sacrifice them, to make more

The catalyst said that eventually all synthetics will want to wipe out organic life completely.  You just said that the reapers are synthetics.  Explain to me why the reapers have not wiped out all organic life completely since they have existed for billions of years.

The reapers are not the ones who are trying to destroy all organics, under the catalyst they were preventing organics from getting too advanced/capable of building them

The catalyst said that ultimately all synthetics will want to wipe out organics completely.  So his statement about synthetics ultimately wiping out all organic life has been proven wrong for the last few billion years. 

Machines surpassed organics long ago - even Javik said this.  You are basically wanting an advanced AI synthetic to stop organics from making lesser synthetics in case they become advanced organics?

Your logic on this matter is flawed.

My logic is not flawed. all this time they have been slowing the advancement of organics. However the organics have advanced sufficiently despite this, which is why the catalyst says his solution will no longer work.

Listen to yourself.  The catalyst said that eventually an advanced synthetic will want to wipe out all organic life completely. 

The reapers ARE synthetics.  Why have they not wiped out all organic life completely?  I thought that synthetics were destined to wipe out all organic life completely?  The reapers ARE synthetics right?  And they are the most advanced race to have ever existed that we are aware of.  Billions of years.  Maybe hundreds of thousands of reaps.  Trillions upon trillions of lives lost over the course of years.

Why arnt you trying to destroy the reapers?  Arnt they going to wipe out all organic life eventually?  Isnt that what synthetics do?  You are arguing that the reapers are slowing the advancement of organics so they dont make a race that will become like the reapers that will kill everyone because eventually all synthetics WILL kill organic life completely.

You dont see the problem with this line of thinking?

I'll simplify it.  You want the reapers to stop organics making a race that over billions of years will become the reapers.

Again. The reapers are not the ones trying to wipe out all organic life.

Not 'eventually, these synthetics will  get annoyed by organic nagging, and destroy you', if that were the case, wouldn't the catalyst also be targeting the synthetics that had already been built? He didn't target them, because they were not the threat.

But 'eventually organics will build synthetics that will wipe them out'.

Why would anyone try to stop, or slow someone down? To slow/prevent them from getting to their destination.
The organics were not at the stage where these synthetics were able to be built.

So, yes, I will listen to my interpretation of the story. Thank you

[Xellith]

Skull Bearer wrote...

I made a poll concerning what ending people chose here. Apparently Control is less popular than any of the other options, including the 'do nothing until you get the Critical Mission Failure screen' option.

I think its humerous that the colors for that poll are wrong...

[rymajn3]

I never wanted to control the Reapers. Plus you're arguing with TIM the whole game and saying we can't control them and humanity isn't ready for that kind of power. And then it's presented as a choice at the end. Joke's on me!

[Pkxm]

Skull Bearer wrote...

I made a poll concerning what ending people chose here. Apparently Control is less popular than any of the other options, including the 'do nothing until you get the Critical Mission Failure screen' option.

that poll can be kind of misleading/confusing