209 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

For starters they assume that these three groups are about even.

Source? Based on the "please the majority of fans", they're only assuming that less than half of fans are unhappy with the game and will be unhappy with the EC.

The majority of players did not like the endings.

Source? Only Bioware could do that since there's now way we could do a fair survey (e.g. randomly ask 1% of customers through Origin with a $50 Origin voucher as an incentive)

A new ending isn't going to suddenly alienate the people who just tollerate the ending right now. Many people who are fine with the ending as it would still probably like a different ending even more.

That's a complete non-sequitor and, worse, false. Those that liked the ending because it is so dark and depressing will be annoyed that they have to put up with flying pink unicorns and rainbows now.

Doing math based on weak assumption is pointless here.

What does that even mean? What is a "weak assumption"? Something that isn't true - non-Euclidean geometers would probably like to have a word with you.

The truth is a completely new ending would satisfy far more people

Again, source? If that all relies on your assumption that "most people don't like the ending", is that not a weak assumption making your argument invalid?

And the reason for this is simple. It's optional. We're talking about a DLC here, people don't have to download it.

That's actually a good point. Try to disguise it with less nonsense next time.

[Running Heron]

Modifié par Running Heron, 04 mai 2012 - 10:22 .

[dunstan1993]

I've actually never heard any reasons why somebody liked the ending.
Everyone who is asked why they liked it just dodge the question and become evasive.

[Running Heron]

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

[The Razman]

dunstan1993 wrote...

I've actually never heard any reasons why somebody liked the ending.
Everyone who is asked why they liked it just dodge the question and become evasive.

... have you been selectively reading threads, or something? There's been numerous threads and posts by loads of people talking about why they like the endings.

[Father_Jerusalem]

dunstan1993 wrote...

I've actually never heard any reasons why somebody liked the ending.
Everyone who is asked why they liked it just dodge the question and become evasive.

Because we've learned that nothing we can say will matter worth a damn. We can give all kinds of reasons, and y'all will just come back and flame us for liking it, call us stupid, say "you just don't understand", talk about how many more of you are than us, dismiss everything we say... just on and on and on. 

There's simply no point to it. Why SHOULD I try and explain my opinion to you, when you'll just rip everything I say and mock me for it?

[Icinix]

Wait, there are people who didn't understand the ending?

What was there that was hard to understand?

[The Razman]

Running Heron wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

You suggested that by not laying out any reasons for why it should be taken as being bad. You just said "I want to see points of why it's good" without thinking that you had to justify your own position first.

[dunstan1993]

The Razman wrote...

dunstan1993 wrote...

I've actually never heard any reasons why somebody liked the ending.
Everyone who is asked why they liked it just dodge the question and become evasive.

... have you been selectively reading threads, or something? There's been numerous threads and posts by loads of people talking about why they like the endings.

Really? I've never seen them, I'll go take look.

[dunstan1993]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

dunstan1993 wrote...

I've actually never heard any reasons why somebody liked the ending.
Everyone who is asked why they liked it just dodge the question and become evasive.

Because we've learned that nothing we can say will matter worth a damn. We can give all kinds of reasons, and y'all will just come back and flame us for liking it, call us stupid, say "you just don't understand", talk about how many more of you are than us, dismiss everything we say... just on and on and on. 

There's simply no point to it. Why SHOULD I try and explain my opinion to you, when you'll just rip everything I say and mock me for it?

I think I'm a bit more understanding than the average anti-ender in that case, I'll be back.

[Running Heron]

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

You suggested that by not laying out any reasons for why it should be taken as being bad. You just said "I want to see points of why it's good" without thinking that you had to justify your own position first.

Fair enough:  Here are a few points I think make the ending bad.

-dismissal of the games core themes of cooperation, hope and perserverance
-introduction of a new character and goal in the final minutes of the game
-Why is joker running from the battle?How did he pick up my squad members?
-Why are we not able to refuse the god child's self righteous options?  Not to mention that his rationale for creating the reapers is completely assinine.

What are some of your reasons?

[Sebbe1337o]

Xellith wrote...

They dont care about delivering a product that people want. They only want to deliver art that they want. This is why making people happy doesnt matter.

Making money matters. The ONLY thing that matters it seems.
This does not coult for the EC however since it's free.

[Running Heron]

I really am interested in hearing a truly positive opinion of the ending. I am open to having my mind changed if the arguments are good.

[The Razman]

slyguy200 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

You suggested that by not laying out any reasons for why it should be taken as being bad. You just said "I want to see points of why it's good" without thinking that you had to justify your own position first.

All i see here is a guy who likes the ending and doesn't know why trying not to reveal that.

So tell us why do you like the endings? I am asking you for real, and avoiding answering the question will get you nowhere.

*sigh*

Because the ending is extremely emotionally poignant, cinematically breathtaking, allows you to make a decision which affects the entire galaxy and all its inhabitants on a fundamental level (which video-games have always in the past shied away from out of fear of commitment), didn't conform to a typical "beat the boss and win the game" stereotype, revealed a brilliant irony about the Reapers (that they're mind-controlled puppets in exactly the same way that they make puppets out of organics), contained music that is still hauntingly and beautifully stuck in my head to this day, and wrapped up Shepard's story arc in the Mass Effect universe nicely.

Now, notice how I managed to talk about my feelings about the endings without patronising the other side?

[Running Heron]

slyguy200 wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

...
Fair enough:  Here are a few points I think make the ending bad.

-dismissal of the games core themes of cooperation, hope and perserverance
-introduction of a new character and goal in the final minutes of the game
-Why is joker running from the battle?How did he pick up my squad members?
-Why are we not able to refuse the god child's self righteous options?  Not to mention that his rationale for creating the reapers is completely assinine.

What are some of your reasons?

You should not have done that, now he is just gonna try to pick away at your reasons without ever saying his.

He can try.  I am open to debate.

[Casper DM]

slyguy200 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

You suggested that by not laying out any reasons for why it should be taken as being bad. You just said "I want to see points of why it's good" without thinking that you had to justify your own position first.

He asked first.

All i see here is a guy who likes the ending and doesn't know why trying not to reveal that he likes the ending for no real reason.

So tell us why do you like the endings? I am asking you for real, and avoiding answering the question will get you nowhere.

Hardly fair considering this is a no spoiler section...

[Sebbe1337o]

We will never be able to say which party is in the majority. One thing that is for sure is that a VAST majority never voted for what they thought about the ending, that's for sure.

I do believe however that a majority disliked the ending. Of all the people that I know who play ME (around 20 people) only two liked the ending, and to be quite honest with you they have more teeth than brain cells.

[AlanC9]

Running Heron wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

This sounds like a reasonable request, actually. But "acceptable" is a pretty low bar.

For me, all that an "acceptable" ending would have to do is:

1: Be an ending. The Reapers are defeated (an alternate where they win would be nice but isn't necessary)

2:  Not be "rocks fall, everyone dies." At least some of the characters and planets I like have to live through it. I think we all know the RPG that failed this test.

3: Keep it clear what Shepard's trying to do, and why. This is where KotOR 2 failed, spectacularly. ME3 came close to failing here since it's not at all clear what Normandy's doing in the last sequence, but since Shepard isn't in command there it's not an absolute dealbreaker for me.

[xsdob]

Looking at the post here reinforces what I already thought. People do not care about other opinions, merely about porpogating their own preconceived biases.

So I'll be avoiding the so called asking pro-ender threads since they are traps set up to troll and flame others out of the fandom.

Modifié par xsdob, 04 mai 2012 - 10:52 .

[Running Heron]

The Razman wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

As if your viewpoint should be taken as the default position. <_<

Absoultely not, and I don't see how I suggested that.  I just want to hear some valid reasons so I can better evaluate my position.  

You suggested that by not laying out any reasons for why it should be taken as being bad. You just said "I want to see points of why it's good" without thinking that you had to justify your own position first.

All i see here is a guy who likes the ending and doesn't know why trying not to reveal that.

So tell us why do you like the endings? I am asking you for real, and avoiding answering the question will get you nowhere.

*sigh*

Because the ending is extremely emotionally poignant, cinematically breathtaking, allows you to make a decision which affects the entire galaxy and all its inhabitants on a fundamental level (which video-games have always in the past shied away from out of fear of commitment), didn't conform to a typical "beat the boss and win the game" stereotype, revealed a brilliant irony about the Reapers (that they're mind-controlled puppets in exactly the same way that they make puppets out of organics), contained music that is still hauntingly and beautifully stuck in my head to this day, and wrapped up Shepard's story arc in the Mass Effect universe nicely.

Now, notice how I managed to talk about my feelings about the endings without patronising the other side?

-following the suggestions of a war criminal is not emotionlly poignant
-Destroy option:  The geth are destroyed.  Thats...genocide.
-Synthesize option:  Why have diversity when we can all just become the same.  What morals and ideals does that imply?
-Control:  Why would we want to control the reapers?  
-Just because the ending breaks away from convention does not make it good.
-The music is indeed nice but so what?