209 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

rapscallioness wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

Is there any possible thing that I could say about the ending being acceptable that would, in any way, work to change your mind about how much you hate the ending?

No, Father Jerusalem. No, there isn't. And that makes me sad. I didn't want to hate the ending. But I do. I was very disappointed.

And what actually bothers me more than the actual ending is this idea that the reason I don't like the ending is because I simply don't understand it. So, they're going to explain it to me. As if I'm a child. A dull-witted child at that.

As far as those that do like the ending...cool. I'm happy for you. Really. I'm glad it worked for you. I wouldn't wish this feeling of disappointment on anyone. I don't think that makes people that liked the ending unintelligent, or shills.

I'm not a "Retaker" per se, but what I don't understand is why so-called "pro-enders" care so much what the Retakers are doing, or not doing. The pro-enders got theirs. If the Retakers think they got what it takes--hey, let's see what they can do.

Frankly, I'm amazed that 5 minutes, or so of the game had the ability to leech away so much passion I once had for this series. When it ended the first words out of my mouth were literally, "Wtf? What?" I've never had that reaction to the ending of a ME game.

Yet, I find that I'm being belittled for not liking the ending. Yeah, yeah, I know---it's the Retakers being belittled. But besides the few crazy people sending death threats, and understanding that crazy is pretty much everywhere, most of the Retakers have been very intelligent, articulate people. They expressed what I was feeling, but didn't want to take the time to express.

In business, it's not the complainers they worry about the most. It's the quiet ones that feel the same way, but don't complain. Because then the business no longer has the opportunity to address those issues and try to make them right. In the process, hopefully, keeping a customer for the future.

In My Opinion, if I'm still allowed to have one that is, BW crapped out on that ending.

I gotta tell you, though, I never thought I'd miss the days of the Paragon vs. Renegade threads. Who knew that those were actually the good times?

Well I don't belittle anyone for not liking the ending. That's completely their perogative, and while I wish you could like it as I do, I understand why you don't like it. I'm not going to demand you explain why, I'm not going to throw poll numbers your way to show why you have to like it, I'm not going to mock you or make fun of you or say you're stupid for not liking it.

I'm sorry you don't like it, I really am. It saddens me that something that people have been looking forward to for such a long time can disappoint them this much. 

It's only people who throw demands around, and insult me for liking the ending, and whine constantly about plot holes, and rant about nothing in the ending making sense, and throwing threats around to other posters and the devs that I have issues with. 

I'm sorry you don't like it. I wish you could. Maybe the EC will have something more palatable for you - I really, truly, hope that it does.

[Artemis_Entrari]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
False equivalency. When was the last time you saw a pro-ender demand anti-enders explain why they don't like the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender made a thread just to show off some random person from the internet's YouTube video about how much they liked the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender was screaming about poll numbers and how that means they're right and the other side needs to shut up and accept it?

Please, point those out to me.

Amioran's entire thread (which got shut down) amounted to that.  His entire thread was basically him spouting his opinion as fact, and ignoring/dismissing any points people brought up to counter his opinion.

[The Razman]

rapscallioness wrote...

No, Father Jerusalem. No, there isn't. And that makes me sad. I didn't want to hate the ending. But I do. I was very disappointed.

And what actually bothers me more than the actual ending is this idea that the reason I don't like the ending is because I simply don't understand it. So, they're going to explain it to me. As if I'm a child. A dull-witted child at that.

As far as those that do like the ending...cool. I'm happy for you. Really. I'm glad it worked for you. I wouldn't wish this feeling of disappointment on anyone. I don't think that makes people that liked the ending unintelligent, or shills.

I'm not a "Retaker" per se, but what I don't understand is why so-called "pro-enders" care so much what the Retakers are doing, or not doing. The pro-enders got theirs. If the Retakers think they got what it takes--hey, let's see what they can do.

Frankly, I'm amazed that 5 minutes, or so of the game had the ability to leech away so much passion I once had for this series. When it ended the first words out of my mouth were literally, "Wtf? What?" I've never had that reaction to the ending of a ME game.

Yet, I find that I'm being belittled for not liking the ending. Yeah, yeah, I know---it's the Retakers being belittled. But besides the few crazy people sending death threats, and understanding that crazy is pretty much everywhere, most of the Retakers have been very intelligent, articulate people. They expressed what I was feeling, but didn't want to take the time to express.

In business, it's not the complainers they worry about the most. It's the quiet ones that feel the same way, but don't complain. Because then the business no longer has the opportunity to address those issues and try to make them right. In the process, hopefully, keeping a customer for the future.

In My Opinion, if I'm still allowed to have one that is, BW crapped out on that ending.

I gotta tell you, though, I never thought I'd miss the days of the Paragon vs. Renegade threads. Who knew that those were actually the good times?

You're not being belittled for not liking it. You're being belittled for making such a big, emotional "I wouldn't wish this on anybody" drama about it. Some of us have been here before with Mass Effect, and we didn't make a great big deal about it. It's just a game. Games have endings which disappoint people, just like everything else in the world of narrative storytelling. People claiming its destroyed their life/belief/soul/ability to love are what's being ridiculed (quite rightly).

[Father_Jerusalem]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
False equivalency. When was the last time you saw a pro-ender demand anti-enders explain why they don't like the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender made a thread just to show off some random person from the internet's YouTube video about how much they liked the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender was screaming about poll numbers and how that means they're right and the other side needs to shut up and accept it?

Please, point those out to me.

Amioran's entire thread (which got shut down) amounted to that.  His entire thread was basically him spouting his opinion as fact, and ignoring/dismissing any points people brought up to counter his opinion.

It actually wasn't, in any way, that. But sure, okay, I'll be generous and consider it. 

So, the score is still 8-1 - in this thread alone. You're still guilty of a false equivalency.

[xsdob]

If you want I can try and post most of the "I hereby challenge any Pro-Ender to refute the points made by Strange Aeons. . ." thread in the story and campaign section here to show you good points being made in response.

That would show you pro and neutral enders making great points.

Modifié par xsdob, 04 mai 2012 - 11:30 .

[The Razman]

Running Heron wrote...

Yes but the difference here is that Shephard had no choice in the matter.  He did not actively set out to kill them, he even tried to warn them but there was absolutely no way around it.  It was either sacrifice the colony or let the reapers through.  The reason for the reapers' genocide is, I'll say it again, completely assinine and we can show it by uniting the geth and the quarians.

Welcome to the other side of the fence. You know who you are? You're the Council.

Shepard: "I didn't have a choice ... it was for the greater good, I couldn't do anything to save them!"
Council: "You couldn't do anything else? I find that hard to believe. We're going to have to arrest you."

Starchild: "There was no choice. Synthetics would have killed all organic life without my intervention."
Shepard: You couldn't do anything else? I find that hard to believe. I'm going to have to say screw you."

It's not nice, is it ... being judged by the Council for doing the things you do for the greater good ...

Also, you've called the reason for the Reapers existing asinine, and I don't believe you fully grasp why they're there. The Geth and the Quarians are proof that synthetic life would wipe out all organic life in the galaxy if it was allowed to reach the level of the Reapers. They don't disprove anything; quite the opposite.

My problem is why we are being forced into these decisions in the first place.  There is no precedent for it and we should be able to refuse the catalyst's flawed logic.  If we had that option I probably wouldn't mind the ending so much.

You're not forced into it. You wanted these options. The only reason for plugging in the Crucible to the Citadel was to try and get some way of stopping the Reapers. Well, here they are. Your hard work paid off; you got your options. It would be completely nonsensical to work all game to get the options and then say "No, I don't want these, let's just die by the Reapers steely hand instead". I mean, really?

I agree with this general principle and I agree that a choice is a great way to end the game.  But the events leading up to and surrounding those choices simply do not jive with the rest of the series(or make logical sense)

You haven't really made any argument there, you've just made a statement of opinion?

True true, but you could put excellent music over anything.  just because it looks and sounds nice does not make it good.

The way its used for the death of the character we've been with for an entire trilogy does.

[xsdob]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
False equivalency. When was the last time you saw a pro-ender demand anti-enders explain why they don't like the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender made a thread just to show off some random person from the internet's YouTube video about how much they liked the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender was screaming about poll numbers and how that means they're right and the other side needs to shut up and accept it?

Please, point those out to me.

Amioran's entire thread (which got shut down) amounted to that.  His entire thread was basically him spouting his opinion as fact, and ignoring/dismissing any points people brought up to counter his opinion.

It actually wasn't, in any way, that. But sure, okay, I'll be generous and consider it. 

So, the score is still 8-1 - in this thread alone. You're still guilty of a false equivalency.

How many pro-end videos even exist out there anyway?

And how many anti-ender videos get spammed on the forums here?

[rapscallioness]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

I'd just like to see a few points on why the ending is acceptable.

Is there any possible thing that I could say about the ending being acceptable that would, in any way, work to change your mind about how much you hate the ending?

No, Father Jerusalem. No, there isn't. And that makes me sad. I didn't want to hate the ending. But I do. I was very disappointed.

And what actually bothers me more than the actual ending is this idea that the reason I don't like the ending is because I simply don't understand it. So, they're going to explain it to me. As if I'm a child. A dull-witted child at that.

As far as those that do like the ending...cool. I'm happy for you. Really. I'm glad it worked for you. I wouldn't wish this feeling of disappointment on anyone. I don't think that makes people that liked the ending unintelligent, or shills.

I'm not a "Retaker" per se, but what I don't understand is why so-called "pro-enders" care so much what the Retakers are doing, or not doing. The pro-enders got theirs. If the Retakers think they got what it takes--hey, let's see what they can do.

Frankly, I'm amazed that 5 minutes, or so of the game had the ability to leech away so much passion I once had for this series. When it ended the first words out of my mouth were literally, "Wtf? What?" I've never had that reaction to the ending of a ME game.

Yet, I find that I'm being belittled for not liking the ending. Yeah, yeah, I know---it's the Retakers being belittled. But besides the few crazy people sending death threats, and understanding that crazy is pretty much everywhere, most of the Retakers have been very intelligent, articulate people. They expressed what I was feeling, but didn't want to take the time to express.

In business, it's not the complainers they worry about the most. It's the quiet ones that feel the same way, but don't complain. Because then the business no longer has the opportunity to address those issues and try to make them right. In the process, hopefully, keeping a customer for the future.

In My Opinion, if I'm still allowed to have one that is, BW crapped out on that ending.

I gotta tell you, though, I never thought I'd miss the days of the Paragon vs. Renegade threads. Who knew that those were actually the good times?

Well I don't belittle anyone for not liking the ending. That's completely their perogative, and while I wish you could like it as I do, I understand why you don't like it. I'm not going to demand you explain why, I'm not going to throw poll numbers your way to show why you have to like it, I'm not going to mock you or make fun of you or say you're stupid for not liking it.

I'm sorry you don't like it, I really am. It saddens me that something that people have been looking forward to for such a long time can disappoint them this much. 

It's only people who throw demands around, and insult me for liking the ending, and whine constantly about plot holes, and rant about nothing in the ending making sense, and throwing threats around to other posters and the devs that I have issues with. 

I'm sorry you don't like it. I wish you could. Maybe the EC will have something more palatable for you - I really, truly, hope that it does.

Thank you. And yeah, I hope the EC kicks butt, too *knocks on wood*. I'm willing to wait and see. It's not how I hoped things would be, but...it is what is.

I liked fussing and fighting about pretend world vid game stuff. But this real world fussing and fighting...it's actually turning me off more.

And on that note, I'm going to scurry over to the Dragon Age forums, lol.

Good luck guys. And please, don't be too hard on each other. You're my ME Fam. Don't cannibalize yourselves.

[The Razman]

slyguy200 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

You never put them in a list before

Yes. I have. I've written paragraphs like the one above before. If you've missed them, sure. Coming into this thread and saying "Watch, he never talks about why he likes the endings" when I've done so before just makes you look like a colossal idiot who's looking for a fight.

It left me speechless in a bad way, it confused me then pissed me off.
They failed, meaning that they made an attempt but didn't pull it off. I have seen many more stories closing like that, and most of them made me feel good, not this one though it just pissed me off to be honest.

All the things you've said have been why they failed for you. So what?

I must ot have seen your lists. My bad i guess.

I am merely using myself as an example, there are others who feel the same but i don't speak for them.

I don't care if there are others or not? That's irrelevent. If you can't offer any argument beyond "well I was dissatisfied, I just was" ... then why should we take your opinion seriously?

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
False equivalency. When was the last time you saw a pro-ender demand anti-enders explain why they don't like the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender made a thread just to show off some random person from the internet's YouTube video about how much they liked the ending? When was the last time a pro-ender was screaming about poll numbers and how that means they're right and the other side needs to shut up and accept it?

Please, point those out to me.

Amioran's entire thread (which got shut down) amounted to that.  His entire thread was basically him spouting his opinion as fact, and ignoring/dismissing any points people brought up to counter his opinion.

It actually wasn't, in any way, that. But sure, okay, I'll be generous and consider it. 

So, the score is still 8-1 - in this thread alone. You're still guilty of a false equivalency.

How many pro-end videos even exist out there anyway?

I don't know. I haven't looked, because I don't need an Argument From Authority to try and back my position up. I, for one, am content to let people have their opinions - whatever they may be - without needing it "backed up". I simply wish the other side would do the same.

[xsdob]

Why do inflammatory opinion pieces keep being posted here?

[Selene Moonsong]

slyguy200 wrote...

I know this for fact, i was there.

Here is a link i made to the poll i made about his crazyness, and in the poll you will see all you need to know:

http://social.biowar...25/polls/33288/

This is a good example of a poll weighted to express the designer's opimion. While the options appear evenly weighted, the commentary surrounding the options provided are based on the designer's opinion of the subject of the poll.

[The Razman]

slyguy200 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

..
I don't care if there are others or not? That's irrelevent. If you can't offer any argument beyond "well I was dissatisfied, I just was" ... then why should we take your opinion seriously?

Well you did not offer any more of an argument than i did. And you only said how you felt same as me. So don't go pointing at me for having no argument.
I have never taken you seriously.

Yes, I did and I do. Whenever you post your rubbish on the endings, I refute them when they're wrong (which they usually are). I offer evidence and reasoning. You've seen my reasons for the opposite, liking the endings, for the first time ... and your response is "Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope."

I know you've never taken anybody who likes the endings seriously, but if that's the sum total of your abiltiy to use logic to support your arguments ... I'm not exactly going to feel much shame over that.

[Ahglock]

I got to get off these forums. Every nerd rage about the ending only makes me want to buy the damn game more. I don't want to give up on my nerd rage over origin.

[incinerator950]

I'm sure if Bioware had more time and a larger budget, they would have loved to get down with the game.

[UnstableMongoose]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

I know this for fact, i was there.

Here is a link i made to the poll i made about his crazyness, and in the poll you will see all you need to know:

http://social.biowar...25/polls/33288/

This is a good example of a poll weighted to express the designer's opimion. While the options appear evenly weighted, the commentary surrounding the options provided are based on the designer's opinion of the subject of the poll.

You are a nobler person than I to so calmly reason with such people.

How do all of you keep doing that with the utter disrespect our current forum trolls have for the moderators?

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

...
I don't know. I haven't looked, because I don't need an Argument From Authority to try and back my position up. I, for one, am content to let people have their opinions - whatever they may be - without needing it "backed up". I simply wish the other side would do the same.

That question was rhetorical. There aren't enough pro-end videos to help them get their point across, so your false equivalency argument is irrelevant. I use vids because i don't want to type huge walls of text, and i (obviously, i know) normally take short-cuts where i can.

Yeah, uh, nothing you said there is actually accurate. Unless you've watched every single ME3 related video on the internet, you cannot possibly state that there "aren't enough pro-end videos to help them get their point across".

The false equivalency stands because he was accusing both sides of using the same tactics, and it's absolutely demonstrable that that statement is inaccurate. Ergo, false equivalency. 

[darthoptimus003]

The Razman wrote...

Running Heron wrote...

Yes but the difference here is that Shephard had no choice in the matter.  He did not actively set out to kill them, he even tried to warn them but there was absolutely no way around it.  It was either sacrifice the colony or let the reapers through.  The reason for the reapers' genocide is, I'll say it again, completely assinine and we can show it by uniting the geth and the quarians.

Welcome to the other side of the fence. You know who you are? You're the Council.

Shepard: "I didn't have a choice ... it was for the greater good, I couldn't do anything to save them!"
Council: "You couldn't do anything else? I find that hard to believe. We're going to have to arrest you."

Starchild: "There was no choice. Synthetics would have killed all organic life without my intervention."
Shepard: You couldn't do anything else? I find that hard to believe. I'm going to have to say screw you."

It's not nice, is it ... being judged by the Council for doing the things you do for the greater good ...

Also, you've called the reason for the Reapers existing asinine, and I don't believe you fully grasp why they're there. The Geth and the Quarians are proof that synthetic life would wipe out all organic life in the galaxy if it was allowed to reach the level of the Reapers. They don't disprove anything; quite the opposite.

My problem is why we are being forced into these decisions in the first place.  There is no precedent for it and we should be able to refuse the catalyst's flawed logic.  If we had that option I probably wouldn't mind the ending so much.

You're not forced into it. You wanted these options. The only reason for plugging in the Crucible to the Citadel was to try and get some way of stopping the Reapers. Well, here they are. Your hard work paid off; you got your options. It would be completely nonsensical to work all game to get the options and then say "No, I don't want these, let's just die by the Reapers steely hand instead". I mean, really?

I agree with this general principle and I agree that a choice is a great way to end the game.  But the events leading up to and surrounding those choices simply do not jive with the rest of the series(or make logical sense)

You haven't really made any argument there, you've just made a statement of opinion?

True true, but you could put excellent music over anything.  just because it looks and sounds nice does not make it good.

The way its used for the death of the character we've been with for an entire trilogy does.

accually we made peace with them
and IF you accually payed attintion in the game the Quarians started the war NOT the Geth
so the starbrats logic is totally screwed at this point    so try again