219 réponses à ce sujet

[Brettic]

Vanguards charge enemies in melee and block my shots, they also immediatly replace my enemy in my scope AS SOON AS I FIRE MY SHOT! and they make mobs dance around like headless chickens, Nemesis in particular, they are nearly impossible to hit while moving cant scope a shot on them for crap, and I wish you had just not run up to them so they would never see my headshot coming.

Vanguards are just annoying.

[prazision]

Sonintega wrote...

If vanguard weren't so prone to glitching out due to network issues

As I said in my original post IN ALL CAPS this really only happens if you're not hosting, or if you ARE hosting and your internet connection is total garbage.

[prazision]

Brettic wrote...

Vanguards charge enemies in melee and block my shots, they also immediatly replace my enemy in my scope AS SOON AS I FIRE MY SHOT! and they make mobs dance around like headless chickens, Nemesis in particular, they are nearly impossible to hit while moving cant scope a shot on them for crap, and I wish you had just not run up to them so they would never see my headshot coming.

Vanguards are just annoying.

Counterpoint: Snipers are annoying because they're obsessed with topping the points board.

You should never be upset that somebody killed something instead of you.  In a co-op game, all that matters is, as the Krogans are fond of saying, "THEY'RE DEAD!"

[Brettic]

prazision wrote...

Brettic wrote...

Vanguards charge enemies in melee and block my shots, they also immediatly replace my enemy in my scope AS SOON AS I FIRE MY SHOT! and they make mobs dance around like headless chickens, Nemesis in particular, they are nearly impossible to hit while moving cant scope a shot on them for crap, and I wish you had just not run up to them so they would never see my headshot coming.

Vanguards are just annoying.

Counterpoint: Snipers are annoying because they're obsessed with topping the points board.

You should never be upset that somebody killed something instead of you.  In a co-op game, all that matters is, as the Krogans are fond of saying, "THEY'RE DEAD!"

I don't care about points, I just want stuff dead, and when they are blocking my shot or causing me to miss a shot, or making nemesis run around all stupid like that mob is NOT DEAD YET and it SHOULD BE!

frustrating.

[DryR]

It has nothing to do with hating the class. It has everything to do with how playing with the class is less fun (due to screen shaking and kill stealing) and not fun to play yourself class unless you are host to bypass the awful connection issues that plague this game that was designed to run at the minimal cost of EA/BW.

[Sonintega]

prazision wrote...

Sonintega wrote...

If vanguard weren't so prone to glitching out due to network issues

As I said in my original post IN ALL CAPS this really only happens if you're not hosting, or if you ARE hosting and your internet connection is total garbage.

An inherent flaw with a semi-successful workaround is still relevant, regardless of the amount of capitalization you reference it with. It is a consistent issue to the class, and since there is no way to search for a game by geographical region there will always e some amount of lag for most players, no matter what their individual connection speed is. But feel free to be snotty about it.

[prazision]

DryR wrote...
kill stealing

You obviously didn't read my OP, or didn't understand it.

There is no such thing as "kill stealing".  This is a co-op game and High Scores Do Not Matter.

[WaffleCrab]

OblivionDawn wrote...

MarchWaltz wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch 

I honestly don't see how it's possible to lose on any map/enemy/difficulty if you have a squad like this.

I mean, Unless you all land on a grenade and nova at the same time or something.

you would be surprised, that seems to be on silver. on gold you might wanna have an adept or 2 reaving the **** off everything.

[Ankarah]

people who are not fond of (human) vanguards base their opinions not on the fact that they kill more and score more points, but the vast majority of them keep dying trying to recklessly charge into a group of enemies they cant handle then simply refuse to medi-gel themselves back to life when they go down, thereby making others risk their own lives to come out of cover to revive them.

and more often than not, they will manage to accomplish this by charging from one area of the map to the other end of the map.

recklessly separating themselves from the group and becoming a deathtrap for your teammates is what you call a 'team play'?

Modifié par Ankarah, 05 mai 2012 - 12:47 .

[Ankarah]

Modifié par Ankarah, 05 mai 2012 - 12:47 .

[WaffleCrab]

DryR wrote...

It has nothing to do with hating the class. It has everything to do with how playing with the class is less fun (due to screen shaking and kill stealing) and not fun to play yourself class unless you are host to bypass the awful connection issues that plague this game that was designed to run at the minimal cost of EA/BW.

I have to sympathize with this opinion also. a good vanguard isnt in the teams face shaking the screen(atleast till BiowEAre removes the shake effect)... god i once played with one, who used reset card, just so he could use max shockwave, max nova and max passives... the screen shaking made my friend quit after wave 1. i followed suite after wave 2. i feel sorry for the quarian engineer left behind with the milkshakeguard.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 05 mai 2012 - 12:47 .

[Freskione2]

I only hate the ones that play like they are the only ones in the game.

I don't mind having a vanguard on my team usually (I usually play engineer or infiltrator) as they are pretty good at keeping the mob at bay and clearing out the banshees or phantoms.

I wish I knew how to play them better as they seem like they'd be a lot of fun. I've tried and I suck at it.

Modifié par Freskione2, 05 mai 2012 - 12:48 .

[QseftJohn]

human vanguard are stupid on anything silver and above, they just charge and nove untill they are shot in the back by a geth trooper, or they glitch out and fall through the map and when the rest of the team get wiped out on wave 9 due to only having only three people, they won't quite, so nobody can get their credits or exp.

there should be a in-game boot for this kind of thing

[spaceling]

First vanguard I've heard from that actually made me feel something. Good for you!

Honestly, I like being a vanguard but I think most people don't understand team dynamics. Glad you do.

[Maria Caliban]

The reason people hate vanguards is that there's a plethora of bad vanguard players out there, and unlike soldiers or sentinels, it's obvious when you're teamed up with a bad vanguard.

[spaceling]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The reason people hate vanguards is that there's a plethora of bad vanguard players out there, and unlike soldiers or sentinels, it's obvious when you're teamed up with a bad vanguard.

I mostly agree with this hit I've seen some bad soldiers and sentinels too. 

[whalewhisker]

The few times that I've played as a vanguard the Charge skill just would not activate when I needed it to and I would die. Very frustrating.

[Tankcommander]

I can actually play Kroguard on Gold without dying too much (meaning not pissing off my teammates from going down too often), but I don't know how other Vangaurds can do it. There are some really good ones out there tho, and props to them.

And is it just me or is Hardcore on SP ridiculous for Vangaurds? Maybe I speced my Shepard out badly but man is it tough. I breezed thru with my Male Infil but my VanFemShep can't do crap.

Modifié par Tankcommander, 05 mai 2012 - 01:11 .

[prazision]

QseftJohn wrote...

human vanguard are stupid on anything silver and above, they just charge and nove untill they are shot in the back by a geth trooper

There are people who play EVERY class poorly.

- Adepts with Widows
- Sentinels with Widows
- Engineers with Widows
- Anyone who uses Shockwave, ever

I could go on, but the point which you seem to have missed is that a team-oriented Vanguard who knows his role is an asset and if you sometimes have to cloak and go revive him, that is NOT necessarily a bad thing!

For the record, I play every class equally.  Actually, I play Turian Sentinel or Drell Adept more than anything.

I had just hoped to put something on this forum that, for once, is written with an understanding of Team Dynamics and Intelligent Gameplay.

Vanguards: Your Friends - AND Mine!

[ghostbooty]

I will usually leave the game lobby if the team being assembled has more than one human vanguard. I will also avoid teams that have too much of any class unless I'm playing Bronze difficulty. I can handle one human vanguard spamming biotic charge and nova, but two or more is just stupid. They do steal a lot of the kills. And, I'm not saying that because I want them all for myself. In a perfect game every player would cover each other and only kill what's in front of them or what's about to jump one of their team mates. Most games however, aren't perfect. The fact is, even if its a co-op game each player is there to earn points, credits, and practice their playing skills. If some poor sniper is perched on a ledge trying to pick off enemies while a group of vanguards are zipping around smashing everything I can see how that would suck for the sniper.

There are always players with higher DPS power who kill most of the enemies, even without trying too hard. Certain weapon/power combos work better against certain enemies on certain maps. Ever play a game with 4 Engineers using Chain Overload against Geth? That's just crazy. If you were to replace one of those Engineers with a Vanguard I'll bet that Vanguard would feel just like that Sniper I mentioned.

Bottom line for me is, too much of anything can be bad. This is definitely true for Vanguards mixing with other classes.


-Matt C.-

[rmccowen]

Sonintega wrote...

If vanguard weren't so prone to glitching out due to network issues then I would play the class more prominently. Even so I would not trust them on gold because they are a liability and poor team support even if played well. They are built around willful self endangerment, and given that enemy group tactics and durability is so much higher on gold the slot that a vanguard would fill would be much better filled by something that can reliably strike from a distance or play off of one of the other player's abilities.

Here's the thing: I've had amazing Gold matches with my Justicar and a friend's Human Vanguard. I Reave, he Charges, and enemies just melt. (Not literally--that takes a Geth Infiltrator--but, you know, figuratively.) He only Charges targets that are actually a threat to the squad, and is careful to stay within a safe revive range. So there's nothing about the Vanguard class that makes it a necessarily a liability in matches... as long as you know and trust the player.

The problem is that something about the Vanguard playstyle frequently attracts people who aren't interested in teamwork or smart play. My intuition is that it's a mix of people who are genuinely just bad and people who find success early with the Vanguard and learns bad habits. (Of course lots of people do learn fairly quickly that Vanguards really should think about tactics and teamwork as much as any other class, and I'm not talking about those because they should just keep being awesome.)

But even a casually played Vanguard with low-level equipment can easily solo Bronze (and they frequently do, even when there are squadmates around). The Vanguard remains an engine of death even on Silver, and as long as you have decent timing and coordination you can be perfectly successful even if you never learn anything beyond Charge/Nova/Nova or Charge/Shotgun/Heavy Melee (and as long as your definition of "successful" doesn't consider the number of teammates irritated with twenty minutes of continuous screen shake, blocked shots, un-detonated biotic and tech bursts, and trips across the map to pick up the Vanguard for the Nth time). And you consistently come in first or second on the scoreboard in every match, so you must be good!

My approach lately in PUGs has been to explicitly suggest to the Vanguard that if he/she is willing to stay reasonably close to me and work together, I'll play an Adept and use Warp or Reave to set up targets for Charge. If the answer is "yeah, that sounds great!" then we're off to the races. If the answer is some variant of "no" or "I work better alone", then it's time to leave the lobby and find a different group.

[BellaStrega]

The "only play vanguard if you're the host" is not necessary. I have played vanguards many times, rarely as the host, and I've only glitched once. I have had the problem more often that my powers won't trigger and it does get me killed, but it doesn't usually happen more than once or twice a match.

[Bamford38]

prazision wrote...

QseftJohn wrote...

human vanguard are stupid on anything silver and above, they just charge and nove untill they are shot in the back by a geth trooper

There are people who play EVERY class poorly.

- Adepts with Widows
- Sentinels with Widows
- Engineers with Widows
- Anyone who uses Shockwave, ever

I could go on, but the point which you seem to have missed is that a team-oriented Vanguard who knows his role is an asset and if you sometimes have to cloak and go revive him, that is NOT necessarily a bad thing!

For the record, I play every class equally.  Actually, I play Turian Sentinel or Drell Adept more than anything.

I had just hoped to put something on this forum that, for once, is written with an understanding of Team Dynamics and Intelligent Gameplay.

Vanguards: Your Friends - AND Mine!

The problem is that there are very few people that know how to play the class properly.
The vast majority of vanguards are controlled by idiots, and the reason everyone hates them is because theyve had bad experiences with them.
Making a thread and being a condescending douche isnt going to change that

[HiGamerCAT]

I love having human vanguard on the team when I'm playing asari justicar (and vice versa) - makes for such fast and fun games! (Except one case... where i had justicar, my teammate had vanguard with widow sniper rifle... and was sniping quite poorly too....such a waste)