219 réponses à ce sujet

[Rayne01]

Thrillskr wrote...

Oh dont misunderstand me, i have nothing againt any of the classes, as long as the player knows how to use it. Its just interesting that nobody but vanguards seems to have the need to constantly say 'hey but we is awsum, dont be hating us coz we zoom about n stuff'.
And i'm not going down the path of anything, i use a class that is enjoyable for me to play.

yea well its because there are so many faults within the game that can completely break vanguards

(lag, the bug where charge is ready but you can not charge regardless and die, the charging and staying in the same place without barrierrefill-bug, the glitching out when not hosting and dancing in the sky-bug,...)

not to mention if you screw up once for a second you die most of the time so most players see that on 2-3 vanguards and decide all players playing that class suck monkeyballs.

[prazision]

The reason that the Vanguard class needs defending on this forum is that this forum is mostly obsessed with typical Call of Warfare thinking, which is "Snipers are totally elite bro, stop stealing my kills" and most people here don't seem to realize that a good team is a mix of classes (the exception is a 4 Adept team, which is pretty OP but also kind of boring, and even they will have trouble capping 4-hack objectives on Gold).

As for tips on playing Vanguard on Gold? It's pretty simple: Always Be Charging. If you Charge into a group, you need to know where your "exit strategy" target is so you can immediately Charge back away.

In general, you shouldn't Charge ALL the way across the map, but it's also totally possible to do that and survive - just settle down and use your gun more, so you don't get grabbed by a Banshee.

Also, never Charge Banshees.

Use a light weapon - something that gives you 100% or more cooldown. A Geth Plasma Shotgun X is a good choice, because due to its range and homing ability it lets you "snipe" when facing enemies that you don't want to Charge into (Phantoms, eg) while still putting out good damage.

Vanguards can be the worst class in the game, but they can also be the best. See the rest of this thread for my other examples of Good classes Played Badly.

WIZARD

[GodlessPaladin]

prazision wrote...

The reason that the Vanguard class needs defending on this forum is that this forum is mostly obsessed with typical Call of Warfare thinking, which is "Snipers are totally elite bro, stop stealing my kills" and most people here don't seem to realize that a good team is a mix of classes (the exception is a 4 Adept team, which is pretty OP but also kind of boring, and even they will have trouble capping 4-hack objectives on Gold).

As for tips on playing Vanguard on Gold? It's pretty simple: Always Be Charging. If you Charge into a group, you need to know where your "exit strategy" target is so you can immediately Charge back away.

In general, you shouldn't Charge ALL the way across the map, but it's also totally possible to do that and survive - just settle down and use your gun more, so you don't get grabbed by a Banshee.

Also, never Charge Banshees.

Use a light weapon - something that gives you 100% or more cooldown. A Geth Plasma Shotgun X is a good choice, because due to its range and homing ability it lets you "snipe" when facing enemies that you don't want to Charge into (Phantoms, eg) while still putting out good damage.

Vanguards can be the worst class in the game, but they can also be the best. See the rest of this thread for my other examples of Good classes Played Badly.

WIZARD

I think that's rather bad advice.  You should charge banshees ruthlessly if you have a biotic support team.  And using a Claymore is not a bad idea.

A demonstration:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMv-9VpdMqc

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 mai 2012 - 08:20 .

[prazision]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I think that's rather bad advice.  You should charge banshees ruthlessly if you have a biotic support team.  And using a Claymore is not a bad idea.

A demonstration:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMv-9VpdMqc

There can be more than one Good Advice.  I was merely giving Some Good Advice.

Of course you can do absurd things like clear Gold with a team of Drell Vanguards armed with nothing but Raptors.  Just because you "can" do something doesn't mean everyone can!

[Trell073]

I always joke about Vanguards being biotic gods due to their kill count. XD anyway though I dont mind Vanguards for their role especially on Gold the only issue I have with'em on Gold is they might charge into a heavy horde and we might can't get their back enough to keep enemies off. So they put themselves in a horde that we most likely wont be able to get to'em other than that I dont mind Vanguards much.

[Silvair]

 1)  I hate teaming with biotics in general.  Unless they only use stasis, then its a nightmare because they keep making the screen constantly shake and enemies keep bouncing all over, making it really frustrating to shoot anyone, or god forbid, attempt to actually snipe, which is what I mainly do as I play Quarians and Geth.

2)  Vanguard is the absolute extreme example of the above reason.  Hence my hatred for vanguards above all else.



Sure they get high kill counts, but they make terrible teammates.

Modifié par Silvair, 05 mai 2012 - 08:55 .

[idunhavaname]

I don't hate vanguards, im just reluctant to play with them because they are glitchy as hell and most don't even know how to play one.

[Fjortis]

Silvair wrote...

 1)  I hate teaming with biotics in general.  Unless they only use stasis, then its a nightmare because they keep making the screen constantly shake and enemies keep bouncing all over, making it really frustrating to shoot anyone, or god forbid, attempt to actually snipe, which is what I mainly do as I play Quarians and Geth.

2)  Vanguard is the absolute extreme example of the above reason.  Hence my hatred for vanguards above all else.



Sure they get high kill counts, but they make terrible teammates.

Lol selfish sniper looking for Biotics to stasis for easy headshots is what I got from your post.  
Enemies bouncing all over and dying is a good thing. In the amount of time you've killed one person with a sniper a biotic could probably kill 3-4 in the same amount of time. 

[Achossa]

I'm beginning to seriously dislike random infiltrators

I'm fine with vanguards, just take my justicar and shadow them around reaving everything.

Modifié par Achossa, 05 mai 2012 - 09:06 .

[prazision]

Silvair wrote...
Sure they get high kill counts, but they make terrible teammates.

That's funny, those are the exact words I would use to describe pubbie Snipers (especially ones without mics - come on, a mic costs like ten bucks man!)

STOP DOING THINGS SO I CAN LINE UP MY HEADSHOTS BRO

[Silvair]

Fjortis wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 1)  I hate teaming with biotics in general.  Unless they only use stasis, then its a nightmare because they keep making the screen constantly shake and enemies keep bouncing all over, making it really frustrating to shoot anyone, or god forbid, attempt to actually snipe, which is what I mainly do as I play Quarians and Geth.

2)  Vanguard is the absolute extreme example of the above reason.  Hence my hatred for vanguards above all else.



Sure they get high kill counts, but they make terrible teammates.

Lol selfish sniper looking for Biotics to stasis for easy headshots is what I got from your post.  
Enemies bouncing all over and dying is a good thing. In the amount of time you've killed one person with a sniper a biotic could probably kill 3-4 in the same amount of time. 

1) Don't care how many they can kill.  Its a nightmare for teammates who use guns.

2)  Only terrible snipers would focus on the disabled enemy (stasis)  Kill the ones who are a threat first, leave the one whos been taken out of the fight for last (Unless its a phantom).

3)  Enemies bouncing all over is a very bad thing for teammates who use guns instead of powers.  Like infiltrator, soldier, or melee users like my krogan and batarian.

[Fjortis]

Silvair wrote...

Fjortis wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 1)  I hate teaming with biotics in general.  Unless they only use stasis, then its a nightmare because they keep making the screen constantly shake and enemies keep bouncing all over, making it really frustrating to shoot anyone, or god forbid, attempt to actually snipe, which is what I mainly do as I play Quarians and Geth.

2)  Vanguard is the absolute extreme example of the above reason.  Hence my hatred for vanguards above all else.



Sure they get high kill counts, but they make terrible teammates.

Lol selfish sniper looking for Biotics to stasis for easy headshots is what I got from your post.  
Enemies bouncing all over and dying is a good thing. In the amount of time you've killed one person with a sniper a biotic could probably kill 3-4 in the same amount of time. 

1) Don't care how many they can kill.  Its a nightmare for teammates who use guns.

2)  Only terrible snipers would focus on the disabled enemy (stasis)  Kill the ones who are a threat first, leave the one whos been taken out of the fight for last (Unless its a phantom).

3)  Enemies bouncing all over is a very bad thing for teammates who use guns instead of powers.  Like infiltrator, soldier, or melee users like my krogan and batarian.

1. It's a co-op game and the objective is to kill enemies. Biotics do it more efficiently and faster than an Infiltrator with a sniper. 

2. Then why would you even mention stasis? The fact that you only want biotics who use stasis as well is pretty crippling to the team considering AA are at their best when setting off Biotic Explosions. Even after the radius nerf it's one of the best way to take care of mobs. And like I said, a sniper has to take out an enemy one by one very slowly, while one BE can take out that entire mob. 

3. Again, another selfish statement. Mobs don't tend to live long on silver and bronze if they're being BE'd. And if you're playing gold you shouldn't be running around meleeing enemies anyway. 

So what I'm getting from your post is that you care about points per game instead of the actual objective, or else you wouldn't be complaining that biotics are 'taking the kills away from gun users'.

[Thrillskr]

Actually, on gold sniper with semi-auto is usually the biggest killer. High level black widow or (especially) valiant + geth infiltrator = KILL ALL THE THINGS. I pretty much always snipe unless ive got competent biotic teammates, then ill go justicar for massreave and tons of asplosions. Thing is, if you play with pubs AA or an infiltrator are your safest bet since they can do everything, and inf's get the bonus of doing objectives while invisible. Sure, Vanguards theoretically can do that too, except i havent actually seen that happen outside youtube vids. Screen shaking only bothers if you try and steal biotic kills. Dont be stading right next to screen shakers, cover another approach/corridor/what have you - problem solved.

[Silvair]

Fjortis wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Fjortis wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 1)  I hate teaming with biotics in general.  Unless they only use stasis, then its a nightmare because they keep making the screen constantly shake and enemies keep bouncing all over, making it really frustrating to shoot anyone, or god forbid, attempt to actually snipe, which is what I mainly do as I play Quarians and Geth.

2)  Vanguard is the absolute extreme example of the above reason.  Hence my hatred for vanguards above all else.



Sure they get high kill counts, but they make terrible teammates.

Lol selfish sniper looking for Biotics to stasis for easy headshots is what I got from your post.  
Enemies bouncing all over and dying is a good thing. In the amount of time you've killed one person with a sniper a biotic could probably kill 3-4 in the same amount of time. 

1) Don't care how many they can kill.  Its a nightmare for teammates who use guns.

2)  Only terrible snipers would focus on the disabled enemy (stasis)  Kill the ones who are a threat first, leave the one whos been taken out of the fight for last (Unless its a phantom).

3)  Enemies bouncing all over is a very bad thing for teammates who use guns instead of powers.  Like infiltrator, soldier, or melee users like my krogan and batarian.

1. It's a co-op game and the objective is to kill enemies. Biotics do it more efficiently and faster than an Infiltrator with a sniper. 

2. Then why would you even mention stasis? The fact that you only want biotics who use stasis as well is pretty crippling to the team considering AA are at their best when setting off Biotic Explosions. Even after the radius nerf it's one of the best way to take care of mobs. And like I said, a sniper has to take out an enemy one by one very slowly, while one BE can take out that entire mob. 

3. Again, another selfish statement. Mobs don't tend to live long on silver and bronze if they're being BE'd. And if you're playing gold you shouldn't be running around meleeing enemies anyway. 

So what I'm getting from your post is that you care about points per game instead of the actual objective, or else you wouldn't be complaining that biotics are 'taking the kills away from gun users'.

1)  Its not really efficient, either.  Again, if everyone on the team benefits or contributs to Biotic explosions, then sure.  But BE isnt compatible with say, engineers, soldiers, and infiltrators.

2)  I mentioned stasis because it is not only useful for the whole team, but its useful without shaking the screen or scattering enemies.  Biotics are fine in a team full of power users.  But the classes who use guns, its terrible because it keeps scattering the enemies that they need to shoot to kill.

3)  So let me get this straight.  I'm selfish....for wanting to play and enjoy the game I payed 80 bucks for?  Hows THAT work?  Anyways.  I specialize in high risk/high reward playstyles, so I tend to be able to pull off melee.  lol>  Its cute hearing someone say that I HAVE to like working with vanguards, then turn around and try to call ME selfish.


Quit obsessing over kill counts and points, and think about the teamwork and dynamics.  If you are only concerned about killing people quickly, which you are, then sure, Vanguards work.  Assuming you don't have anyone on your team who isnt a biotic, anyway.  For people trying to have fun matches, though, they are terrible teammates, because they make it much harder for everyone else to function because the enemies keep getting scattered every few seconds.


Fact of the matter is, Biotics were designed for single player so certain geeks could have some star wars with their star trek.  Not meant to work with other players.  Its a solo class.

It winds up overshadowing or just flat out disrupting the rest of the team.  Mostly the latter, sometimes the former, not fun to team with either way.

[Fjortis]

1. A biotic doesn't need other players to be efficient especially an AA or another combination with throw and warp. So yes, it is compatible. If you not getting enough shots in time is a problem or your screen is shaking then focus on other enemies. A good biotic isn't going to be focusing on the enemies that are far off anyway.

2. Like I stated above, if you're annoyed with screen shake or enemies being killed because you were too slow to do so, move to another part of the map. Also like I said above some biotics are also efficient by themselves. You can't combo or play off a sniper so I don't even see how that makes them useful or efficient unless you're an infiltrator doing objective and healing. Which doesn't even require said gun. Warp staggers mobs on cerberus, one BE can wipe out multitudes of them. That's a lot more useful to the team than your one sniper rifle.

3. Just because you paid 80 bucks for doesn't mean you aren't playing like a CoD one man army. How does shooting things until they're dead have anything to do with teamwork or dynamics? You're mad because Biotics are shaking up your screen and killing enemies before you have the time to. If you weren't worried about kills then this wouldn't be an issue.

Also, I wasn't talking about Vanguards if you'd taken the time to read. I dislike most Vanguards because they have a similar mentality like you do. Kill all the enemies and not work off of teammates abilities. Lone wolf. The fact that you say Biotics are lone classes is laughable. Justicar with Reave and another Adept with Throw or Warp is devastating.

And of course it's not fun because you get your jimmies rustled when you get outplayed by an adept while you're reloading your slow sniper rifle. Yeah, sounds like tons of fun!

Modifié par Fjortis, 05 mai 2012 - 09:44 .

[JiceDuresh]

Silver and Gold I'm fine with. But if you're a level 20 Human vanguard on Bronze, you deserve to be kicked.

Yes it's a team game, but that doesn't mean others need to put up with someone killing every group that spawns while they fight over the 1 mob that didn't die. Yes everyone gets the points, but stading there with your carnifex at full ammo and no one to shoot at doesn't make for a fun 'team game'.

Watching someone solo a map while you're standing there just waiting for something to do makes you feel stupid, and it's the main reason why when I kick around in a bronze game, trying new classes or weapon combos, if I'm doing too much killing I throttle it back.

[WaffleCrab]

Silvair wrote...


1)  Its not really efficient, either.  Again, if everyone on the team benefits or contributs to Biotic explosions, then sure.  But BE isnt compatible with say, engineers, soldiers, and infiltrators.

DING DING DING! we have a winner for lobotomy lottery. Get your **** right and read this topic here: 

http://social.biowar...3/index/9629730

2)  I mentioned stasis because it is not only useful for the whole team, but its useful without shaking the screen or scattering enemies.  Biotics are fine in a team full of power users.  But the classes who use guns, its terrible because it keeps scattering the enemies that they need to shoot to kill.

IF your that ****ing close to a BE to shake your screen, means you either. A.) Got your ass saved by that biotic or B.) you suck so much with your sniper rifle that you walk up to the enemies to get the shot.

Either way, dont take it out on the users, moan at BW to remove the shake, i dont moan at the players i **** at BW. i do a support ticket EVERY ****ing week just to bug em about the shaking thing, and i keep telling people to do the same till they get rid of it. But dont **** at people who want to play the game they too paid for, You had acces to the demo, if you did not play it before purchasing and didnt know about the BE shake, blame only yourself for it.

3)  So let me get this straight.  I'm selfish....for wanting to play and enjoy the game I payed 80 bucks for?  Hows THAT work?  Anyways.  I specialize in high risk/high reward playstyles, so I tend to be able to pull off melee.  lol>  Its cute hearing someone say that I HAVE to like working with vanguards, then turn around and try to call ME selfish.

Then dont, there is a choice given to you, dont play with vanguards, simple as that. But if you get into a game with one, dont **** at the user. You dont have to like working with em, but you sure are one dumb SoB if you cant realize the fact that the game has only 2 classes that specialize in direct and sustained assault. soldier and vanguard. and the rest are support one way or another, that is your own fault if you cant handle that, yet again.

Quit obsessing over kill counts and points, and think about the teamwork and dynamics.  If you are only concerned about killing people quickly, which you are, then sure, Vanguards work.  Assuming you don't have anyone on your team who isnt a biotic, anyway.  For people trying to have fun matches, though, they are terrible teammates, because they make it much harder for everyone else to function because the enemies keep getting scattered every few seconds.

very few good vanguards i play with obsess over the points or kill counts, they take the path that leads to least amount of time spent on the mission, as everyone should be. Hell i dont do it either. i am perfectly happy hanging in my teams flank killing straglers/making sure team has an exit if things get hairy.

Fact of the matter is, Biotics were designed for single player so certain geeks could have some star wars with their star trek.  Not meant to work with other players.  Its a solo class.

It winds up overshadowing or just flat out disrupting the rest of the team.  Mostly the latter, sometimes the former, not fun to team with either way.

Your mp manifest tells me a good story about you, your just starting the game so you dont know jack**** how things work. First of all. Biotics are a CC with their forte being handling the armored units as biotics are the most powerfull against armor, where engineers are the shield and barrier shaver specialists. and Infiltrators are the elimination/close range melee support that are at their best taking down things that get too close or potential hazards at range before they flank the team. and sentinels they are the master of nothing but good at anything class being the flexible choice between anti armor and anti barrier/shield.

Saying biotics are ment for single players only is a statement only a ignorant, spoiled, Bratty kid, would make.

Hell. most people think that BE is the most op thing in the game, i hate say. but they are wrong. a skillfull engineer or soldier can set off fire explosions every few seconds. and fire explosions do even more damage with slightly higher radius.  But you dont hear people moaning about them. BECAUSE IT IS THE ROLE THEY CAN FULLFILL!!

now go back to your teen angst.

[Delta095]

prazision wrote...

Delta095 wrote...

This is getting old.

It only gets old if we stray from the Good Advice that I and others are trying to give!  Let's try to be adults, stay on topic and be constructive!

Let's work together as a team to better understand Our Friend, The Vanguard! 

No, it's getting old because even though this issue has been tackled literally thousands of times in the last 2 months, people still feel the need to pull a facebook and make another useless, opinionated post about why everyone who doesn't have the same opinion on vanguards as them are ugly stupidheads (which is, in essence, bigotry no matter how good-intentioned it may be).

Nobody is changing for you. Vanguards are still unpopular. Deal with it, and stop trying to change peoples' opinions by restating pointless facts that everyone already knows.

[TheAgent]

Only awful vanguards should be hated. As in the ones who rush off into a crowd of enemies. But I enjoy playing as my Asari Vanguard. Probably my favorite class to play with on Silver.

I will admit that if I'm playing as an Infiltrator, Vanguards are my worst enemy. Nothing is worse than lining up a headshot just to have someone BC right in the way. lol

[Iorozco]

Some player don´t know how to use a vanguard, and thay just charge against everything, sometimes just for points and forget about teamwork. That why some people hate vanguards, but thay are usefull in hands of some experiencied player and can be the first line, take some enemy fire adn give some space for adepts or soldiers to do a lot of damage. The snipers can have some troubles with vangards, becuse they change the battlefield when charging and move the targets from a clear shot, but chating on battlefield by just saying "charging" can fix that. Vanguards are a good class, and specially usefull against cerberus and reaper forces

[Ashen One]

When I get the vanguard bug, I just leave, go to my recent players list, and rejoin the game from there.

[LeandroBraz]

Lagrad Gribble wrote...

I'd hate them a lot less if Bioware removed all that damn screen shaking from Biotic Explosions and Charges. Can't tell you how many times I've missed a kill because a teammate is doing there job and setting off detonations, but my scope is shaking like there's an earthquake.

that depends on the player. shacking screens doesn't bother me at all when I'm playing the infiltrator.

[Trakarg]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

4 Human vanguards with a good connection to each other is the fastest way to beat gold.

Replace one vanguard with a reave spammer and you'll finish faster.

[LeandroBraz]

This is the more ridiculous topic Infiltrators vs Biotics ever!!!

So now infiltrators are complaining about enemies bouncing? What you guys need, they to stand still so you can shot? This topic proves a fact: Infiltrators are popular because it's the easier class to get really good and effective in the MP, so it's full of infiltrators that can't deal with environmental complications, like shacking screens and enemies bouncing. The MP is full of infiltrators that need the enemy stased and perfectly standing still to kill him.

Same way that there's a lot of bad vanguards, who charge to infinity and die in the other side of the map, there's a lot of bad infiltrators that are only good if all the odds favors him.

I play infiltrator, I'm not awesome at it but I can deal with bouncing enemies and shacking screens. Biotics are welcome when I'm playing the infiltrator...

[kingtrouble]

Why vanguards are hated: They are the most marginalize class and most noticeable when they aren't pulling their weight compared to any other class.